User talk:JCarriker/Archive0

• Wikipedia:How to keep image file sizes as small as possible
• wikipedia:image use policy

If you changed the image to a jpeg because your editor does not support gif then see if it supports png instead { our preferred format for maps. I will be deleting your image in a moment. Dont let this small hiccup put you off though. (if you read the above links you'll see that I made every mistake in the book , which is why I make a point of helping newbies)

If you need any other help try:

• Wikipedia:Help
• Village pump
• Or ask me at my talk page User_talk:Theresa knott

==US regions.gif== title added by JCarriker for easier referincing

Hi J,

First, just to be certain, I believe that you want to change the image Image:US regions.gif.

I personally have no objections if you wish to use a different map that has only 4 regions rather than the 5 in the aforementioned map. If you do, you should rework all the pages that make use of the US regions.gif pic as well as all pages that refer to the Southwest United States region article. You can determine these articles by examining the what links here page associated with each article. Cheers, Sfmontyo 16:26, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

==Southwest Edits== title added by JCarriker for easier referincing

JCarriker,

I realize what you're trying to do with changing the regions of the US to match the government's... but I think that some discussion is warranted before obliterating all references to the Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, etc. While the government may break up the country in that way, the majority of the population uses Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, etc. You would be changing the meanings of many articles if you changed those references (like you did in the Dallas and DART articles), and going against years of historical use and generally accepted terms and customs.

I would suggest that you make a different map of the US with the 4 "official" regions, not simply replace the map of the "traditional" regions. Then create new articles for the official regions and retain the articles about Southwest and Mid-Atlantic etc. with references that those are commonly used but unofficial terms (like some of those articles have). Then add links to the official region names.

I think this would be simpler, more helpful and understandable to the general public, and a lot easier than facing the tide of resistance you'll face when changing all references to the Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, etc.

Thanks, Jfitts 16:16, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I always have wanted to discuss this as I knew that it would be controversial. Also I have ridden DART and it is very nice! First of all it is not my intention to obliterate the Southwest or all references to it. The four regions should come into play only when broad generalizations are necessary. Otherwise their should be a listing of the states or parts of states that apply. If the meaning southwest was broadened to include California, as it sometimes is, then DART was not the first light rail in the southwest. Even if Texas were placed into the four region system, Atlanta would still have beaten it by two years. It was however the first light rail in Texas and therefore I changed it to Texas.

Now as to the history of US regions the southwest region, as it is applied on WP, is not historic but came into vogue in the mid-twentieth century. As late as the 1940’s both Arkansas and Louisiana were considered “southwestern states.” In many of the Articles include Nevada, Utah, and Colorado as southwestern states. In it’s broadest sense the 19th century included: Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah. This came about as the traditional boundary between east and west in 19th Century geography was the Mississippi River. All except about a fifth, including Baton Rouge and New Orleans in that eastern fifth, of Louisiana were west of the river. The concept of the “West” region as it is portrayed here is not even in context with the southwest region. By looking in any encyclopedia that has this display you would see that the “West” region is subdivided into the Mountain and Pacific regions. In this scheme it is likely that the south would be called Southeast and occasionally Kentucky and West Virginia would be place in the Mid West while Virginia would go with the Mid Atlantic states.

Also the South Central region is not listed and what of the Pacific Northwest? If WP keeps this current grid of regions soon people will start carving and gerrymandering, the map to create new or should I say old regions. These regions are set in stone, there is no debate about who goes where because the government has already decided. If we decided to use the regional statistics the Census Bureau compiles, we would find we couldn’t because the southwest has been carved out of the South and West and New England (which if any region is historic it is this one) and the Mid Atlantic are carved out of the Northeast, the data is worthless.

I’m not saying that these regions should be deleted, but should be treated as unofficialregions that in some instances share cultures. However they should be listed with other regions that the state is or was in for example.

Texas is a state in the US South. Texas is some times considered in the Southwest or South Central Regions. In the 19th Century Texas was briefly part of the Trans-Mississippi Region.

If Wiki adopted this it would be easier and more accurate for everyone. Please post on the US states disscusion page concernig this topic.

If you didn't know that I had already posted a disscussion and reposted your suggestion there. Please feel free to join in there!

JCarriker

==WikiProjects== title added by JCarriker for easier referincing

I would love to have your help on Wikipedia:WikiProjects Ethnic Groups. I'm not sure what link you had trouble following; everything I can think of works fine for me. Let me know where the problem is for you & I'll try to fix it (or maybe you can work it out and fix it yourself). Jmabel 20:09, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Looks like there was a caching problem. I believe I've fixed it. Link should work now. Jmabel 21:23, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'd be glad to try to help out on your US regions thing, but you don't seem to have started a WikiProject. Or am I missing something? Jmabel 21:23, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

==East Texas Pic== title added by JCarriker for easier referincing

As for the Marshall thing, you never said that it was in text. However, having the picture of Marshall as opposed to Houston and Dallas in the East Texas article suggests that it was being portrayed as more important to me.

When I see pictures in such articles, I am looking for a picture that is obvious giveaway to a place (E.g. the Eiffel Tower to Paris, or the Parthenon to Athens) - Many people around the world have heard of Houston and Dallas, but few know of Marshall. WhisperToMe

Thanks for your response, WhisperToMe on my talk page, it confirms my previous assumptions. I wanted clarification of your feeling and actions before I laid out a detailed response to your edit. I have several concerns about your edit and one complaint.

Concerns:

1. Dallas and the Metroplex consider themselves, North Texas not East Texas and the reference to the city is inaccurate. I will refer only to Houston from now on in my post.

2. Houston is not the only economic center in East Texas and I think that is misguided to assume that it is. Houston may be by far the largest city in East Texas, but it has virtually no influence on the northern half of the region which is dominated by the quarter million people in the Tyler and Longview-Marshall GSA’s. East Texas has a population of almost 9 million, roughly 5 million of that lives in the Houston area; almost half do not.

3. Houston may be more well known than Marshall, but it is not as obscure as you say it is. Hundreds of millions of people may have heard of Houston, but millions have still heard of Marshall. Each year three quarters of a million tourists visit the city and view, among other things, the Old Courthouse. The city has run ads on the major networks in both Los Angeles and New York, further exposing the building. The city’s festivals have been featured on Oprah and the Food Network, to name a few more media outlets. The building has been featured on the cover of Texas Highways, and coming to see it lighted at Christmas was #12 on Texas Monthly’s list of Fifty Things Every Texan Should Do, Houston’s Juneteenth Celebration were 8th. (Dallas had no listing above Marshall.)

Marshall native, Bill Moyers won an Emmy for his nationally televised documentary "Marshall, Texas: Marshall, Texas," the first installment of a series on 20th Century American History. (Incidentally that Emmy was and will be displayed in the Old Courthouse, when it’s restoration is complete along with the clothes that Lady Bird and Lyndon Johnson wore to his inaugural ball, and George Foreman’s Olympics medals and World Championship Belt.) The State of Texas thinks the building is representative of the Piney Woods region, including the northern portion of the Houston Metro Area, because they put the courthouse on the introduction page to the region in the official travel guide. Marshall is also listed on page 11, titled the Seven Regions of Texas; larger cities such as Longview, Lufkin, or the Woodlands are not. So size is not necessarily a criterion of either fame nor importance.

4. I chose Marshall’s picture not because I thought it was the most influential city in East Texas, although it is not Podunk Hollow, but because I felt it was a good representation of the area as a whole. It is the smaller but senior partner in the third most populous metro area in East Texas. It has a good mix of the qualities that define East Texas, urban, suburban, and rural. East Texas is “distinct cultural and political” region in Texas and these are the qualities at which Marshall excels.

Culturally Marshall has given America; Lady Bird Johnson, Bill Moyers, and James Farmer. Farmer organized the first sit ins and the Freedom Rides, without him or Marshall those events may not have taken place. Melvin B. Tolson is considered one of the greatest African-American poets, he taught and practiced his work at Wiley College in Marshall. While giving a performance in Marshall a little known performer, named Maurice ‘‘Barrymore’’ was shot and wounded in Marshall, creating a news sensation that rocketed him to national prominence. His descendants have created an acting dynasty and include; John, Lionel, Ethel, and Drew Barrymore.

Marshall has been a state capital and had the Civil War not ended when it did, it might have been a national one too. Marshall has produced two Texas Governors (Houston Four) and one of the founding fathers of the city, Isaac Van Zandt, negotiated Texas’ entry into the union. The Starr family was one of the most powerful families in the state for decades and their home is now a designated state historic site. The city’s political influence is not limited to the past, in 2000 the delegates representing Northeast Texas at both the Democratic and Republican National Conventions were both from Marshall. The Electoral College representing Texas has had a Marshallite in it for as long as I have been following politics. In the closest election in U.S. History, the President of Marshall’s Chamber of Commerce cast her College vote for George W. Bush. The past two Congressmen for TX District One have been from Marshall. Max Sandlin, the current congressman, is the House Minority Whip. As recently as 2003 the Democratic Party of Texas filed their challenge to redistricting at the Federal Court in Marshall, because it was the "most influential" city in the oldest congressional district that was being divided. The Harrison County NAACP is one of the oldest and most important branches in the state.

I have listed these concerns because I do not feel that you have considered or were aware of these facts.

Complaints:

Please use more diplomatic and tact language when writing your edit synopsis. With your current language and actions it can be interpreted that you feel toward Marshall, exactly how you felt Houston was slighted, but rather than an omission it would be a direct action and a deliberate act of removal. Marshall is also the only city other than Houston which has a detailed article to link to, and other than Deer Park the only pictures. I had originally planned to add a picture of Houston’s Skyline and I was looking for one that included Buffalo Bayou. The image of some of the America’s tallest buildings rising out of a bayou is an image I felt would best portray East Texas as the first pic. I was in the process of looking for a specific picture, when your edit occurred.

I enjoy collaborating with people to write articles and feel that multi-author articles have a better quality. I will wait a while before editing the article for your response; but I will resist any effort to portray Marshall, Nacogdoches, Port Arthur, or any other city in East Texas or the world as inferior to another.

Hmm... I've never heard of Marshall before myself. Also, with the interwiki links, keep in mind that usually, its not good to make an article using Roman script in Wiki's that use non-Roman langauges like Arabic and Japanese. Try to get the name in that alphabet/script, and if you cant, ask someone who knows the language.

By the way, you need to create archives of old talk :). Cut chunks of it and move it to something like User talk:JCarriker/Archive0. WhisperToMe 05:06, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Also, I never implied that Marshall was a "bad" place. Using "good" and "bad" is a subjective term, anyways. Prominence reflects how well known a city is. Maybe Marshall is known throughout North America, but very few people in the UK, Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand, etc know where it is. WhisperToMe 06:19, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I did not write that you wrote that Marshall was a bad place. I said that by deleteing a reference to it and adding one to Houston, rather than moving the Marshall picture, inherently shows a belief that Marshall is inferior, or is of a lesser value, undeserving of mention, ect.

I agree that very few people abroad know of Marshall, but none the less the city still has some international visability. It is the sister city of Taipei, and local colleges maintain educational ties to Oxford, Hong Kong, Moscow, Kampala, and Cairo. Many students also come here to study, mainly from East Africa. You had never heard of Weimar before you read about it on Wiki because it is more well known in Europe than North America. Marshall could very well be some German's Weimar. The purpose of any encyclopedia is not to tell people what they already know but confirm it and then tell them what they don't know. In actualtiy more people in the UK have probably heard of Marshall than have heard of East Texas. Do they know Texas has an eastern portion? Yes, but they are not familiar with the concept of it as a historical and cultural region.

Please maintain a spirit of wikilove and courtesy when writing an edit synopsis.

You posted on the Marshall and East Texas History Pages

(*Wonders why so many interwiki articles were created for Marshall to begin with, since it isnt well known outside of North America...)

(I hate to say this, but Marshall isn't the most influential city in East Texas...)

Please keep in mind the tenet of Wikiquette when writing a synopsis in the future.

• • People can't see you or know for sure your mood. Irony isn't always obvious, and blunt, raw text can easily appear rude.

One more thing, please identify yourself by placing four tildes at the end of your name. WhisperToMe 00:02, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Please review the proposed U.S. Regions template and infobox. The current proposal would only be for official regions. Please do not make any changes to the page until everyone has had a chance to view the curret proposal. Please signal that you have reviewed the proposal on it's talk page. Please also make any comments you have over the proposed template and infobox ont the propasal talk page as well. You can find the proposal here: Official Region Template and Infobox - JCarriker 21:52, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This looks great. I lightened the background of the text area to make it easier to read on my monitor. Also, I added a image to reference location in the U.S. Davodd 22:29, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)

Maps done. Davodd 04:09, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

==New England== title added by JCarriker for easier referincing

Why are you moving New England to American New England and Mid-Atlantic States to American Mid-Atlantic States? jengod 05:04, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)

I have moved the page to bring it into accordance with the hierarchy agreed to at U.S. Regions Talk. It is designed to avoid confusion between regions that have definitive boundaries and those that do not. In the case of New England there are two regions with the same name and I am creating a disambiguation page for New England.

-JCarriker 05:17, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)

I don't see that anyone agreed to this. Let's please have more discussion about it. I for one would strongly oppose this. RickK | Talk 05:19, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Strongly opposing your move. -- Decumanus 05:24, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Don't move these things without discussion. Do you know how many things link to New England? RickK | Talk 05:06, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

J--I don't think the American/US prefix distinction is a good one. I know it's hard to hash out what's official and unofficial, but that can be stated in the article, and really--who cares what the US Census bureau thinks--it's a good first step for making distinctions, but I think what really matters is which designations have traction with the American people. There is no reason to have American Mid-Atlantic States unless there were Canadian Mid-Atlantic States or Brazilian Mid-Atlantic States. I guess what I'm saying is that since unofficial regions so vastly outnumber official reasons, that the official regions get the "U.S" designation and that everything else be left alone. As for New England, the ratio of New England links that refer to the U.S. area to those that ref the Australian area is currently, like, 80:1. That may change as more Auzpedians come aboard, but for now, those who frequent the N.E. page have decided that the U.S. region of New England should be the main entry for the term. Thanks. jengod 05:22, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)

I'm really sorry that you are thinking of leaving, and feel that you have not been made welcome here. I doubt that anyone else wants you to go either. Remember 90% of communication is non verbal. In a text only medium, we are all crippled by not being able to use facial expressions or tone of voice to convey our true intentions. I can't help but think that in some instances you may be interpreting argument as attack or the other people you are interacting with may be doing the same. To edit here it certainly helps to be a bit thick skinned. If you are determined to leave, then I suppose you will, but if you are looking for reassurance that you are wanted then I am happy to supply that reassurance.

I have always found you polite, intelligent, and a good editor. I can't comment on you factual edits because you write about things I know little about, but a look through your contibutions reveals that you are a valuble and productive contributor. May I make a suggestion. Try a wikiholiday. Have a break for a month. Don't even read wikipedia, let alone edit it. You may find that a break help get things in proprtion, reduces stress and leaves you happy to come back and edit again. theresa knott 10:07, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi,

I've only collaborated with you on one article, Antebellum, but I added your user page to my watchlist after I read it. The edits you've made and the articles you've added have added a unique and valuable perspective to Wikipeidia. By focusing on topics that would otherwise be neglected, you ensure that Wikipedia covers a broader range knowledge than it otherwise would. Perhaps because of a general lack of understanding of the topics that interest you, some users have reacted harshly and negatively to a few of your edits. But they're just trying to make sure that Wikipeida remains balanced and I don't think they meant any malice.

I agree with theresa knott that perhaps you should take a break instead of leaving permanently. I believe that you're a valuable member of this community and I would be sorry to see you go.

Acegikmo1 23:47, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)

Both of your posts mean a lot to me and have signifigantly reduced my chances of leaving. I will consider taking a break after the U.S. Regions Project has reached completion. Perhaps both of you would consider joining it.

--JCarriker 04:28, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad you're keeping an open mind. Regarding maintaining your major articles in case you leave (temporarily or otherwise), I've added the following pages to my watchlist:

• East Texas
• Elysian Fields, Texas
• Hatshepsut of Egypt
• Walter P. Lane
• Antebellum
• Flatiron Building
• Holiday Trail of Lights
• Sit-in

I hope to continue working with you in the future.

Acegikmo1 04:53, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)

==Thanks for the note== Title added by JCarriker for easy refrencing. Thanks for the note on my talk page; the depth of Wikipedia and its community continues to amaze me :). However, after reading about the U.S. Regions group, I'm a bit confused at what they actually do. Since the region pages seem to have been created already, I'm not quite sure what a team of people would be needed for. Bamos 16:47, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Your edit yesterday on User talk:Acegikmo1 had the funniest typo I've ever seen on Wikipedia. Thanks for the laugh. →Raul654 18:10, Mar 18, 2004 (UTC)

Your very welcome. I'm glad someone can find my occasional incompetence as amusing as I do. :)

--JCarriker 22:27, Mar 18, 2004 (UTC)

Briefly on line here. Go ahead with the regions thing without me. & thanks for your wishes on my health. I'm now able to walk and can sit for a while if I don't try to sit still. It will be a bit before I do much on line... -- Jmabel 03:54, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

You are quite welcome, I will look forward to our continued collaborations.

--JCarriker 09:58, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)

testing log out -jcarriker

I think what you are proposing is commendable, but I really am not going to be a very active participant in the US Regions project. I'll keep half an eye on it & speak up if I see anything I think is wrongheaded, but this area isn't a very strong interest of mine. I signed on early when you seemed very short on people, but there are a lot of other areas (Argentine intellectual history, for example, or almost anything to do with Romania) where I seem to be all alone, or (Socialism, Conservatism, etc.) where I seem to be one of very few trying to keep this an encyclopedia rather than a debating society, and I think those are better uses of my time. -- Jmabel 21:58, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

JC, thanks for expanding my short list of hosptials. BTW, have you noted your areas of interest and expertise on the List of Wikipedians by fields of interest? --Rj 20:13, Apr 11, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm trying to concentrate on non-contoversial topics at the moment, such as (hopefully) a list of hospitals. I'll probaly add my interests to List of Wikipedians by fields of interest eventually but I am currently trying to boost the number of my main space edits, so it will probably be a little while.

-JCarriker 12:29, Apr 14, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that the link on James L. Farmer, Jr. actually referred to his father. I'm not sure what I was thinking. -- Wmahan. 06:19, 2004 Apr 12 (UTC)

Don't worry about it, if you check your list of artciles with common grammtical errors you'll find many of my artiles listed there. In the words of Alexander Pope "To err is human." I also have the home court advantage; of living in Marshall, Texas, being a memeber of the local historical museum, and countless Black History Month Programs at school, and living 15 blocks north of James Farmer Street.

-JCarriker 12:38, Apr 14, 2004 (UTC)

I noticed some conversational notes between you and another contributor regarding your article on Queen Nzinga. I also noticed that you indicated that you'd found several variant spellings, including "NZinga." Though this probably doesn't impact your research at all, I thought I'd let you know. that if you found this spelling on a sorority website, it was a typo and should have been "Nzinga." To my knowledge, there is no variety in which the "Z" is capitalized. - 129.81.154.35 Signature added by JCarriker per page history

I would prefer it if you would not delete comments off my talk page, even your own. However this is not a violation in wiki policy, I simply prefer to have all comments posted on my talk page at my disposal. I do not beleive that NZinga appears in the articles text, I am quite sure that I did not create a redirect for it either. I appreciate your deligence though.

As to Nzinga being a title, I have never heard of it being used in that manner. Only the title of Ngola, though I have realized that Nzinga is also part of her brother's title/name. Might I suggest that you look up that reference and then include in the latter part of the article as Dr. So and So said this in so and so. This way you can add the information to the article with out changeing the accuracy or neutrality of the article, as a matter of fact adding it in that manner could only improve the article.

-JCarriker 16:18, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about the IP. It looks to me like a test edit though, since it was reverted so fast after they made it. - Hephaestos|§ 22:28, 16 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

In case you're interested, I've got a nice collection of Marshall pictures and we're also trying to piece together a history of the Ginocchio District. You should be able to figure out my real address ;) -- Kar98 10:46, May 17, 2004 (UTC)

I went through the Marshall, Texas article and made several minor stylistic changes. You can view my modifications here. The article was a very interesting read. I especially liked the sections on the history of the city. My only suggestion is that you get someone who's well-informed about Marshall to review the article for substance. I was really only able to check on style because I'm uninformed. If you can get someone knowledgeable to ensure accuracy and completeness, I think that the article would be a good candidate for Wikipedia:Featured articles. Thanks for asking me to review the page.

Acegikmo1 02:36, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

I figured that you were an expert on Marshall, so I never really doubted the accuracy of the article. I just wanted to mention that I really wouldn't be able to spot any errors in information. I decided to include the suggestion that you seek out someone who is well-informed to also review the article for two reasons. First, it can be helpful to have an expert with a different perspective go though the article. Second, it ensures that nothing is left out. In any case, thanks again for pointing me to the article.

Acegikmo1 03:14, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your comments on my talk page :-). I'd like to offer you congratulations as well for your Marshall, Texas article gaining Featured Article status after receiving unanimous support on the candidates page. Nice work!

Acegikmo1 03:24, 26 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

Thanks!

-JCarriker 06:32, May 27, 2004 (UTC)

I too looked through it and it looks good to go to me. I don't have much experience of the featured articles process, but what little I do have leads me to advice you just to list it on the candidates page. Lot's of people will probably voice objections. You address those objections, fix the things they suggest until everyone is happy and it'll get moved to the "no objections" section. Then somtime in the future it'll get it's day in the sun. theresa knott 08:47, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

Hi :) thanks for the message! my aim in wikipedia is to exchange knowledge, more specifically about Portugal and its former colonies. I’m not bilingual, I just speak other languages has foreigner languages. My Portuguese is above the average, but I cannot say that I'm an expert, because Portuguese is a tricky language. About Portuguese wikipedia having so few pages, is a really that one cannot deny, I’m interested in translating pages that I know are very useful, or at least interesting for me to learn, while I translate. I'm currently consulting Portuguese wikipedia to get info about Portugal and translating Portuguese language article and soon Portuguese Creole. Many translations are a colossal amount of work, and I have not that time available. I’ve worked a lot in some articles, mostly because of curiosity, I’m very curious about some things. But I can translate back and foward other things. The wiki is also useful for me, because I can practice English, a language that like French, I was forgotting. hugs --Pedro 02:17, 28 May 2004 (UTC

File:Bridge in Venice by Leo Michelson.jpg

Looks like it's working... maybe the servers were throwing a minor wobbly. - MykReeve 20:16, 29 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

-Thanks.

I left my rationale at Talk:List of ancient Egyptians. If you don't buy it, I won't be upset if you change it back. Stan 05:02, 31 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

I have posted a response to your rationale here.

-JCarriker 06:16, May 31, 2004 (UTC)

==Translations== Title added by JCarriker for refrencing I decided to start translating articles into Portuguese, because I want the Portuguese wiki to have 10,000 articles, what is an ashame that much less spoken languages has more articles than ours. But I'll create quality articles, and not mere stubs. -Pedro 02:53, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

How can I help? Are you still interested in the English-Portuguese partnership?

In some manner yes! But is a huge work, and I've few time. About both the articles that you've state I 'll translate them. that about the Angolan queen is great. thx. -Pedro 03:27, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I don't know. I'll ask you, when I need it. OK? Thx. I'm going to sleep, its pretty late (4:30 AM). I'm also interrested in cultural exchange. -Pedro 03:44, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I agree that Saddam is not correct. It needs to be changed to Hussein and Saddam Hussein. The user User:Editing Saddam Hussein has cast sockpuppet votes on WP:RFA. I blocked him for 24 hours for violating the three revert rule, trolling, and being an illegitimate sockpuppet, causing him to go on IRC and beg to be unblocked. He eventually was unblocked and proceeded to create User:Editing Saddam Hussein1. ESH1 did nothing but troll on Wikipedia:Requests for review of administrative actions and other pages. After he was blocked by RickK, he came back as User:Sad Ham and vandalized Saddam Hussein, changing Saddam to Sad Ham throughout the article. He did this twice, and I blocked him. He has not been back since, but he has been whining on the mailing lists. Guanaco 19:37, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

He has been given the benifit of the doubt and he has abused it. I offered to listen to him, supposedly what he wanted; and you gave him a temporary ban and a warning. He had his chance, he blew it. I made the request with the information that I had at the time, it is apparently out of date. With what has happened over the past day I would block him myself if I had that ability. I would never have given the user the opportunity that I extened if the original conflict had not envolved him and 172; who had previously reverted similar edits made by Wmahan. Now that the problem user has been dealt with when should the problem with the article be corrected?

-JCarriker 21:59, Jun 5, 2004 (UTC)

It seems that it should be done soon. It isn't urgent, but it is somewhat of an issue. Guanaco 22:10, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wmahan, has already made similar edits and 172 reverted them. Perhaps rather than editing the page and having it reverted, we should explain our reasoning to 172 first. It may also be wise to wait a while before editing the page because of the article war. What do you think?

-JCarriker 22:16, Jun 5, 2004 (UTC)