Tamzin

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	Absolutely deserved for uncovering the Swaminarayan-sockfarm. A lot of work is waiting, but you did great! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:14, 25 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	Hi Tamzin, I'm Kevin. Thank you for your diligence on the Moksha88 SPI; had it been a less thorough report, it may have been overlooked or neglected, especially after the negative CU results. We're lucky to have had you looking into this. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:15, 27 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

	The Civility Barnstar
	Without getting into the messy question of whether or not the other editor's professed ignorance is plausible, I think it's clear your calm, non-judgmental efforts to explain why their comments were offensive have been helpful and appreciated by all. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 20:25, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I definitely second this. Your essay is excellent, as well. You're doing the (proverbial) Lord's work, and with much more patience than I. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:07, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

File:Dr Pepper can.jpg

Happy purim, Tamzin! I thought I'd try and throw together a mishloach manot basket to give out :) feel free to pass it around or make your own basket, if that's your thing—if not, cheers and chag Purim sameach! in jewish enby siblinghood, theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

may memories be for a blessing

 

Thank you for articles such as List of journalists killed during the Russo-Ukrainian War, for your bot and SPI work, for "find me removing things more often than adding them", for paying tribute on your user page in channeled anger, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

You are recipient no. 2728 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2022 (UTC) Reply

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		For reverting my accidental buffalo stampede. Thanks for ameliorating the utter state of confusion.Pharos (talk) 00:07, 26 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for being able to make tough blocks, while maintaining the humility to not do so lightly. —Bagumba (talk) 02:24, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

	The Technical Barnstar
	For Help:-show classes. Really great work. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:05, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

		The Civility Barnstar
		For your conduct in the Inverted Zebra ANI thread. I doubt I'd be able to keep my cool nearly as well as you did when personally attacked. Your writing managed to convey being justifiably angry without being aggressive. Major props to you for your conduct there, good Mx; I hope I can be even half as civil if I ever find my own person under attack. I hope it blows over quickly now, so you can get back to editing.

EducatedRedneck (talk) 23:19, 12 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

	The Special Barnstar
	Thank you for all you do to make Wikipedia a more inclusive, welcoming, and safe community. – bradv 21:02, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

	The Original Barnstar
	Happy New Year, Tamzin! In 2022, other editors thanked you 1003 times using the thanks tool. This places you in the top 10 most thanked Wikipedians of 2022. Congratulations and, well, thank you for all that you do for Wikipedia. Here's to 2023! Mz7 (talk) 23:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

		The Civility Barnstar
		Hello again. I wanted to apologize again for my response to the Charlotte York article and my mistakes regarding the page move. You were incredibly kind, especially when the entire situation was my fault, and I wanted to thank you again for that. I am truly happy to see such great and kind communication on here. Thank you. Aoba47 (talk) 20:34, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

		The Socratic Barnstar
		Your vote at Leeky's RfA was one of the most reflective contributions I've read in a long time. Thank you! Schwede66 19:54, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I stopped by to say "What a nice thing to say about a friend!" but I see User:Schwede66 was here first. BusterD (talk) 22:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

	Barnstar of Awesomeness
	The thing that prompted me to award you this rare and exclusive barnstar was your work in creating User:Tamzin/ACE2023 guide. But don't think that all the other things you do have gone unnoticed! You are an awesome Wikipedian! Thanks for everything. — Diannaa (talk) 23:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Hello, I'm 'zin is short for Tamzin. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse. Thanks. Nosebagbear (talk)

​Block me if you must, but you'll never catch my socks!

(They're very cozy slipper-socks with like a stylized dog face on the top and then little fake ears on the side. Very cozy socks. AND YOU'LL NEVER CATCH THEM!) -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 13:28, 8 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello, people from the future. Confused why your name shows up here? See here. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 05:18, 25 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Toki Pona in the wild? Mute olin!! :D Atomic putty? Rien! Atomic putty? Rien! 16:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Atomic putty? Rien! "Quantity of love"? :P (For "much love", use olin mute, or more properly mi olin mute e ni 'I love this', although ni li pona mute 'This is very good' is probably more idiomatic, since the colloquial English use of "love" to mean "like a lot" doesn't really translate.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 02:01, 23 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Tamzin omg ur so right, sorry I’m rusty. I love finding ppl who speaks Toki Pona outside of the discord server, it’s like a little linguistics easter egg Atomic putty? Rien! 12:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Tamzin P.P.S. Apologies for my English, German’s actually my first language ^-^ Atomic putty? Rien! 12:32, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Special:Diff/1148616329. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the [[:|article's talk page]], and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges.
Please note that such behaviour is distinctly unacceptable on Wikipedia. However, I realise you are still new to Wikipedia and learning the rules - please feel free to ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE if you are unsure about making an edit. Nosebagbear (talk) 11:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

f u delete this or im gonna tell the mods on u. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 11:19, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'm afraid, @Tamzin, that that statement is in breach of rule 1 of this talkpage listed at the top. If you do not retract the comment, I may need to tell this user about the poor behaviour by yourself. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:20, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

tsk, really should have discuss[ed] the matter with the editor at [...] the [[:|article's talk page]] — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 15:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Special talk:Diff/1148616329? Sounds like a good place for settling disputes TheresNoTime ;)

Talk pages for special pages when? /j Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 17:19, 9 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Re above: by itself, from whomever is correct, if that's the end of the expression, placing 'whomever' in the objective case, due to its function as the object of the preposition from. But, in the longer expression From who[m]ever edited this page, who[m]ever is not the object of the preposition from; rather, the entire noun phrase who[m]ever edited this page is the object, and that is an independent clause, containing a subject (who[m]ever), a transitive verb (edited ), and an object (the noun phrase, this page). In this independent clause, the subject is in the subjective case (a.k.a., nominative case), thus it must be whoever. The object noun phrase (this page) is in the objective case (invisible, because most nouns don't change; but if it were a pronoun, like they/them, then it would be whoever edited them). Upshot for this expression: it must be from whoever edited this page. See the first example here, for example. Moral of the story: Moms aren't always right. Oh yeah, and one other thing... congrats on your election. But, first things first, right?   Mathglot (talk) 08:55, 8 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I prefer "whomsoever." --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I appreciate that you dug into the page history to find that I did originally have it right. My lovely mother, whom I will stress is a published author and editor and taught me everything I know about writing, concedes defeat on the matter, Mathglot. However, for questioning the woman whom brought me into the world, you've still earned a place in the WikiHate section, congratulations or not. (Also thank you. :) ) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 21:33, 8 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Tamzin. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Opposition to human rights, and have marked it as unreviewed. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

-- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 02:08, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Outrageous, Tamzin. I demand you resign your patrollership. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 02:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Is there a personal reason for it? 2607:FEA8:FE10:80D0:19BA:6297:7766:A64 (talk) 02:29, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Many brave Tamzins died in the Great Tammy Wars. Some find strength in looking back, but I find it easier to forget. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 02:37, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

OMG YES! El_C 14:31, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

  -- TNT (talk • she/her) 21:12, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I agree. Watching my watchlist gets boring at some hours of the night. wizzito | say hello! 02:45, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

@El C, TheresNoTime, and Wizzito: Well, currently item 1 on my big-project wiki to-do list is some content work (gasp! I know), and item 2 is the second round of 'zinbot automatic patrol circumstances, which I got consensus for months ago but still haven't run with, but this is item 3. If anyone else would like to take a stab at it (hint, TNT), what I'm thinking of is something like:

{{User:'zinbot/Secondary watchlist
|source_page = <!-- Watch all pages linked from these pages, emulating Special:RecentChangesLinked for them. Separate by newline. --->
|source_user = <!-- Watch all pages edited by these users in provided timeframe. Separate by newline. -->
|user_days_back = <!-- How many days back in a user's contribs to follow. Default: 7. -->
|user_edits_back = <!-- How many edits back in a user's contribs to follow. Default: 200. -->
<!-- Either of `user_days_back` and `user_edits_back` can be set to None, as long as the other has a value -->
|namespace = <!-- Name or number of namespace(s) to watch. Use 0 for mainspace. Separate by commas. Default: All. Prefix with - to mean "everything but" -->
<!-- Days back, edits back, and namespace can be overridden per source page or source user, by appending a # and then `days=`, `edits=`, or `namespace=` to the entry. You can also use a `prefix=` parameter. -->
|always_watch = <!-- Will be watched even if not covered by the above parameters. E.g. Your own talk page, AN/I, etc. ... -->
|never_watch = <!-- Will be ignored even if covered by the above parameters. E.g. your own talk page, AN/I, etc. ... -->
|update_frequency = <!-- A number in minutes, or "auto". At "auto", the bot will update as frequently as possible, with the understanding that after each update you are moved to the back of the queue for updates, and the bot only edits once every 10 seconds. -->
}}

Thus mine might look like

{{User:'zinbot/Secondary watchlist
|source_page = User:Tamzin/spihelper log
               User:Tamzin/XfD log
               User:AnomieBOT/TPERTable <!-- Open TPERs -->
               Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion # namespace=4 prefix=Redirects_for_discussion/ <!-- Only watch active RfD subpages. -->
               User:Mz7/SPI case list <!-- Active SPIs -->
|source_user = Tamzin
               'zin is short for Tamzin
|user_days_back = 2
|user_edits_back = None
|namespace = -Category, File <!-- I don't really edit these namespaces -->
|always_watch = User:Tamzin
|never_watch = Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
|update_frequency = auto
}}

That would render as {{Special:RecentChangesLinked/{{FULLPAGENAME}}/links}}, while a bot would update the /links subpage in accordance with the {{{update_frequency}}} value.

Should be pretty straightforward to set up, when I get around to it. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 03:34, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

"hint, TNT"—thank you but no -- TNT (talk • she/her) 03:36, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Wait, what do I do? You're not my mom/s! El_C 04:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Tamzin! I was rummaging through the NPP archives and stumbled onto this discussion. First, my belated THANK YOU!! Second, please see this redirect which showed up in the NPP queue as a result of: 07:39 · Turtle-bienhoa · ←Blanked the page and then reverted 07:39 · Turtle-bienhoa · Undid revision 1097374915 by Turtle-bienhoa (talk). Is there any way we can get the Bot to recognize that type of activity so that it doesn't remove reviewed status? Best ~ Atsme 💬 📧 14:02, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi Tamzin—hope you are doing well. I was wondering if you would be able to update User:Example male and User:Example female to use Special:GlobalPreferences to set their genders, instead of setting them locally? As an irrelevant aside, as I was writing this note, I realized I would ping both accounts. This made me curious: how many pings are they currently sitting at? Anyways, happy editing! HouseBlaster^talk 22:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

 

For your work on removing BLP non-compliant material from Soa Palalei and Rock Machine Motorcycle Club and calling Wikipedians out for being a bit too quick on the revert button. Cheers! Grumpylawnchair (talk) 01:51, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hello, talkpage watchers! If anyone's looking for an article to write, here's one that I think is really interesting, easily notable, and maybe has GA potential, but with which I have a minor COI: Edgar Labat, a Black man wrongfully convicted of rape in Louisiana in 1953. At the time he was freed (1966), he was the longest-serving death row inmate in U.S. history. He was the subject of protracted litigation throughout that time and became a cause célèbre, with lots of coverage. This Time article gives an overview. Newspapers.com^TWL has lots more. And there's scholarly coverage. My COI is relatively small (my grandparents advocated for him and he lived with them briefly), enough so that I'd be fine assisting once written, but I shouldn't be the main author on this. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 18:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

I didn't know {{bcc}} existed. I wish there was a list of semi-obscure and occasionally helpful Wikipedia features. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hey Tamzin. I was curious, would it be much effort to modify task 1 of 'zinbot to also mark pages sent to AfD as reviewed? Hey man im josh (talk) 19:31, 24 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

I believe we all encounter some form of mental illness in our lives, some all encompassing, some apparently trivial. Nothing is trivial, but we can think it is.

I knew all this, but I know it better now I've seen it written down.

I took my own wikibreak a few years ago, and it was for a few years. It coincided with sudden busy-ness in real life, and I think I would not have handled things well had I continued, 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:50, 10 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

A year late, @Timtrent, thanks for appreciating the essay. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

User:Tamzin/userboxen/User non-admin someday You finally got there! 😃. JBW (talk) 18:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

@JBW: Sadly I forgot to ask the 'crats to use the userbox. But, for whatever reason I'm back in the saddle now, so maybe next time.

Some say my tenure will end in arbies.
Some say in 'crats.
From what I've tasted of ol' ANNIE.
I hold with those who favor arbies.
But if I had to de-mop twice,
I think I know enough of burnout
To say that for desysop 'crats
Are also great
And would suffice.

(With apologies to Robert Frost.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 16:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Aah, Robert Frost! I read and very much liked his poems back in my youth, but I can scarcely remember anything about them now. The sadness of the passing of time... Sigh... JBW (talk) 17:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

The sadness of the passing of time ← That's more Proust. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 17:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I believe so, but I've never read him. JBW (talk) 17:51, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I want to talk to you,

And if you forget me,

You will protect us.

I want to smile at you,

And if you remember me,

You will understand me.

I want to sing to you,

And if you will sing with me,

Our harmony will light up our lives.

I want to understand you,

And if only Google would help...

Only it fucking won't.

JBW (talk) 17:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

 

It was so great to meet you at Wikiconference North America – thank you for allowing me to infiltrate the Cool Kid Inner Circle! Hope to see you again at future conferences/gatherings and around on the wikis :)

Accedie^{talk to me} 22:46, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

No worries, I was just feeling like it had turned kind of meta and thought we didn't need to include every possible example that could be scraped up. I think you're right about this one. Valereee (talk) 11:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks @Val. Came upon it while working on Canceling (video essay), which I feel like is one of those links I'm gonna turn blue in either a week or a year. Coming off a series of articles that weren't exactly light stuff, including rewriting parts of Self-harm and of course writing This War of Mine: The Board Game, and I stomach all that just fine, but there's something about summarizing a 100-minute video of someone describing collective emotional abuse, throughout the course of which she gets progressively drunker, and which starts with her drinking King Cobra out of the bottle in a bathtub surrounded by trash bags, that got me questioning whether this was what I wanted to write about for my hobby. So yeah, a week or a year. Anyways, I do agree with the overall removals. It's a really tough topic to write about without perpetuating the victimization. I do recommend the aforementioned video essay if you haven't seen it. (Obligatory and very meta disclaimer that I do not agree with every single thing Natalie Wynn has ever had to say.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 17:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'm working on incubating something in that vein about fleshing out "morally" motivated networked harassment and a chronology of the phenomenon as a fuller page, just have been busy. lizthegrey (talk) 06:07, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi Tamzin, I have been meaning to contact you for months but in amongst my activities here and in life in general, I keep forgetting to get around to this. Now I understand that some action had to be taken against User:2601:601:D02:2120:2D85:C84E:EE00:4AF0 which is who I believe to be Judd Hamilton. But thinking about it, I believe he had no idea of how things work here, and made the legal threat as he may have not realised it's not permitted. I do really believe he was genuinely upset and felt insulted by the remarks of an editor who basically said that he was a "nobody" and that member now I see had been banned not long afterwards. Given Mr. Hamilton's age (81) and the circumstances that caused him to react in the way he did, is it possible to consider unblocking him a month and 2 weeks earlier than his block expiry?
Regards Karl Twist (talk) 11:02, 15 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

(talk page stalker) he hasn't requested an unblock, what's the point? ltbdl (talk) 11:09, 15 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Karl Twist: Legal threat blocks can be lifted as soon as the threat is retracted. At the same time, don't be misled by the block length: It's only temporary because IPs change over time. If he resumes editing from that IP after the block ends, and does not retract the threat, he will be re-blocked. I appreciate that that may seem unkind to do to an old man who doesn't seem to have any real malice in him. But legal threats are a serious thing, particularly in the U.S., where, due to the way our court system is structured, it's entirely possible to become bankrupt through litigation that never even results in a judgment. When you threaten to sue someone, you threaten to put them through years of stress and to cost them tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. (The WMF may cover the latter, but there's no guarantee, and I don't believe it covers ancillary costs, not to mention the effects of the stress.) So it's no small matter. But if he can retract that threat, I'm very much open to an unblock. (No promises, but definitely not a hard no.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 19:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi Tamzin. I doubt if the person that Mr. Hamilton threatened legal action towards would be concerned judging by their behavior. Other people would be yes. I'd probably agree with you there. Anyway, he only has a month or two to go. I have no issue with what you say. So we'll leave it as it is and see how he comes back in the new year. Anyway, I hope you have a nice time during this Christmas season and best wishes for 2024. Cheers Karl Twist (talk) 08:01, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Glancing back at this thread during my annual talkpage cleanup... Hamilton appears to still be active elsewhere on 2601:601::/32 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)) as recently as July on Special:PageHistory/Judd Hamilton and Special:PageHistory/Caroline Munro. That's a massive range, but given it's just two articles he targets, and that he has done so consistently for years, and that an WP:NLT block on an IP should be reüpped if they continue after the tempblock ends, a partial rangeblock seems like a good idea here. @Elli, since you've been getting good at well-targeted long IP blocks, could you consider the following? Please block 2601:601::/32 from pages <Judd Hamilton|Caroline Munro> with expiry 5 years (anon. only, account creation allowed): self-promotion and legal threats; see https://w.wiki/BwFU (length based on activity since 2018). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

	The Writer's Barnstar
	I just spent a few hours looking through the articles you list on your userpage, and was very impressed, by how interesting the articles are and by how well researched and written they are. Thanks for your valuable contributions to the encyclopedia, and happy end-of-year-month! Eddie891 Talk Work 20:35, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

A very belated thanks for this, @Eddie891! Got seven new articles since then!   Advisory Neighborhood Commission district 7F08 (my least-viewed article but one of the most interesting), F1NN5TER, Ray cat,   When a man argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they are going to have the last word (the longest GA title by words),   Terminology of transgender anatomy,   Celebrity Number Six, and   Death of Richard Swanson. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:56, 12 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey, thank you for the greatly detailed and in-depth analysis of the AfC over at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Emoji redirects. Always appreciate when someone goes the extra mile. That was a great summary with good guidance for the future!

Cheers, microbiologyMarcus ^{(petri dish·growths)} 19:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

If you ever find yourself wanting to collaborate with someone on a green side article, I'm your anthropomorphic plant. I'll find a lovely red link or stub with amazing pictures on iNaturalist and maybe even a weird fact and teach you all the "secrets" to understanding the strange language of Botanese. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 06:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

and maybe there's some reason you want all 142 of these conversations here, but if there isn't, maybe do some archiving? They have bots for that, you know. :D Valereee (talk) 20:40, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Valereee. Your punishment for asking this forbidden question will be getting this whole schpiel in return. Eye (heh) of the beholder as to whether that makes me an agent of the evil eye.

So, when I started to understand my dissociative identity disorder in late 2020, I wound up with a lot of great insights into myself, but also wound up a lot less functional than before. Basically everything I did was on impulse, and it took exceptional energy to plan things out more than a day in advance. In a lot of ways that made life Hell, but that bare-minimum stability meant that I could slowly tug my mental health to where it needed to be, in order for me to be the person my family deserved. And eventually I got to that place, got to create the happy domesticated polycule life I'd dreamt of, but I still was stuck on that 24-hour planning loop.

And so in all that time, about 3 years, responding to messages was the hardest thing. I set a hard rule for myself that any ADMINACCT inquiries got a drop-everything response, because at any slower pace there was no guarantee I'd remember to reply at all. Once something fell off that 24-hour radar, I often forgot about it entirely. Every few months I'd comb through old messages and reply to some, and leave others. But it was always a losing battle.

So, that's the "maybe ... some reason": I've left a lot of messages up because I'd rather respond late than never (and, for ones I've already responded to, or that don't need no response, the same phenomenon's always made it hard to remember to archive/remove). Now, for all my willingness to speak about mental health in the abstract, I generally dislike explaining on-wiki issues with "because mental illness". The reason I'm answering this now is because all of this stopped being true about two weeks ago! And I'm excited about that and wanted to take a moment (at the expense of your reading patience, no doubt) to commemorate it. After three years of figuring out my DID, it turned out that if certain parts of me merged with certain other parts, the result was a combined part with an actual working memory, healthy sleep schedule, and much better disposition. It's pretty awesome! I've spent a lot of the past two weeks doing things like place important phone calls and then get really excited about how I just totally placed that phone call without forgetting for 6 months. On-wiki, I've been working on my "white whale" draft, which I'd wandered away from for the third time in July. (I shan't link. 🪬) And so, this is a fortuitous time for you to remind me about these back messages. I'll try and get to them this week. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 04:42, 3 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey, T! Well, first, I'm so happy for you that whatever strategy you've found is working so well that you're feeling a true sense of delight with it! That's great. And second, I get it about needing to keep messages "live" (for want of a better term) in order to prevent yourself from forgetting them. I use my email inbox the same way -- if a message needs responding to but I'm not ready to respond, I remark it as unread. It's not a great solution -- I have messages months old that need responding to. Oops, including an invoice that's probably at least that old, yow. :D At any rate, third, I intended more gentle ribbing than anything else, and apologies for getting into mental health territory with that, it hadn't occurred to me that might be what I was doing. Valereee (talk) 11:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Oh, I take no offense, @Valereee. I just enjoyed the chance to give a brief^{[dubious – discuss]} update on where I'm at, since I don't think I've said much on-wiki about that since August. Also thank you for reminding me I need to pay an invoice. (Got to pay for the new solar panels! Very exciting. We'll see if they pay for themselves before '44 repeats itself.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'm very happy to read this, especially the part about the benefits of your internal M&A. (Who says they're all bad?) You were a great person to chat with when I was regularly in the Discord VC, and I miss those days. Come by WP:WMNYC sometime if you feel up to it! <3 SWinxy (talk) 06:46, 6 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

I just assume those with long user/user talk pages are in a contest with @EEng: -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:55, 27 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

It's truly sad to see you resign, knowing how much you mean to the admin team. Your work as an admin has a significant impact, but I completely understand and respect your decision. I'm not asking you to reconsider because I respect your choice. I sincerely hope you'll still be around to offer your valuable advice and continue your great work. Thank you so much for everything you've done as an admin. – DreamRimmer (talk) 17:16, 17 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Tamzin, I'm not going to try to talk you out of resigning, because you know what's best for yourself, but you've consistently exceeded expectations as an admin and your presence on the admin team will certainly be missed. I'm glad you aren't retiring from the project entirely, I'm sure we can expect many more interesting articles from you in the future. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

What the others said. And your frankness in stepping back and evaluating your own behaviour is greatly admired. If and when you are ever ready to work as an admin again, know that you will be well-placed to mentor a new generation of admins and break the vicious cycle. Of course, content work is no mean feat either, and it is integral and central to a complete encyclopedia. Kind regards, Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (^{talk to me!}/_{my edits}) 18:59, 17 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

I echo what the others have said: you've been a net positive to the project, in all respects. Thank you for your service as an admin, and cheers to many more years of building the encyclopedia. :) sawyer * he/they * talk 21:42, 17 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Most of Wikipedia is a cesspit and the worst part is that it drags down people who are here to build an encyclopedia. Something I've been working hard on for the last couple of years is only engaging in activities that help build an encyclopedia and in being as positive as I can (with things like Challenges). — Bilorv (talk) 09:11, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

<3 You were a good admin, Tamzin. Good on you for continuing on the content side, and all the best, both here and IRL - DFlhb (talk) 12:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

You're completely right about the toxic culture here, but Wikipedia is so resistant to change that I doubt it will be fixed in the foreseeable future. It can be very discouraging at times, and there have been multiple times where I've also considered stepping back to focus on what really matters. Thank you for all of your work as an admin, and I hope to see you continuing to build an encyclopedia in the future. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 14:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Seconding everything said above. You've consistently been one of the few admins willing to speak out and take action when you see problems rather than ignore or perpetuate them. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

+1 — Callitropsis🌲[talk · contribs] 20:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Although perhaps a novice editor, I agree that a lot of editors lose sight of what the point actually is. Thanks for your admin work, Tamzin. _Dial^mayo 14:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Burn the candle only at one end, probably wise. Luck. Selfstudier (talk) 15:05, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your service, Tamzin... just noticed your resignation on BN. You have been an excellent admin and editor throughout your wikicareer and I'm sure others will say the same. Prodraxis _(talk) 21:08, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for all of your admin work, Tamzin, and good luck with whatever projects you work on next. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Tamzin, I only just found out, and I want to let you know how much I appreciate you, and how much I appreciate your work here. Definitely, your own well-being matters far more than mopping up some messes on a website. If you ever feel like talking to me about it, you know where my talk page is. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:09, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, @Tryptofish. Honestly it's not about my own wellbeing. It's about... I don't know, the only phrase I can think of to describe it is the Toki Pona term nasin pona—nasin meaning 'path' and pona meaning any of '[of] correctness', '[of] goodness', '[of] simplicity', or '[of] peace'. Part of that's about one's own wellbeing, sure. But the greater part is about one's place in the world. At a certain point I realized that I was interacting with the world in a way that didn't match my own sense of self. And then recent events solidified my feeling that this was not a space I wanted to be a part of. (More Toki Pona philosophizing: 'want' and 'need' aren't separate things; instead there's only superseding degrees of wile.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

That's a very thoughtful reply. For what it's worth, one fish's opinion is that getting more in touch with one's most appropriate path is very much a part of achieving well-being. But whatever the inner motivation, I understand the dissatisfaction with the culture at this website, and I wish you well. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:32, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

• Some of the stuff we deal with here isn't that nice, but in my experience you were. I'm certainly glad you're not taking off entirely, and hope I'll still run into you. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
• I'd missed this. There has been a lot of loss in the community this year. Heal gently. Glad to see you're still planning to stay around and I look forward to continuing to work with you. Star Mississippi 16:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
• Sorry I'm only seeing this now, Tamzin. Echoing others above, it's sad to lose you (for now) from the admin corps, but I'm glad you're still around in a capacity that works for you, and looking forward to working with you on content going forward! Sdkb ^talk 00:02, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
• Thank you for your service, Tamzin. I have only good words to say about your tenure as an admin and have always found you to be a very helpful person. I'm glad to hear you aren't fully retiring, and will certainly see you around! Patient Zero^talk 00:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
• I'm sad to see you leave the admin corps, but I hope that it allows you to become a more productive Wikipedian and a happier person. I've mostly quit anti-vandalism work for content creation and I feel like I've actually made a difference. Hope to see you around soon! ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 06:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Also, how did my name end up in the Wikihate section? How did Nosebagbear/you get a hold of my name and put it there? I'm really confused. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 06:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

  never mind, I get what the trolling means ;) ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 06:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

• I only just now saw this. Your resignation comes at a time when I most likely came to the same realization as you. Two months ago, it dawned on me that I should have never been talking negatively about other editors behind their backs. I feel like such a better person.. I am genuinely happy for you. Scorpions1325 (talk) 23:14, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
• +1 all of this. Thank you for your service as an admin and best of luck in your future endeavors. Queen of Hearts talk
  she/they
  stalk 15:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
• Only just now saw this, via admin newsletter. But I couldn't not chime in and thank you for your admin work and continuing content work, and also for trying to steer things in a more friendly direction. DMacks (talk) 12:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
• Thank you very much for your contributions! Completely understand your reasons for taking a break ( :( ). Hope that you might return to admin work, if you'd like, sometime in the future. Frostly (talk) 19:19, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
• #Content SWinxy (talk) 23:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
• I'm surprised to see that you resigned. While we have not seen eye-to-eye on many issues, you were a good administrator and were able to isolate your opinions of what policy should be from your application of the existing rules. That is the most important skill that an administrator can have, because the administrator toolset is for enforcing community consensus and the editor toolset is often for trying to change it. Since I trust your perspective on whether or not you should be using the tools, I won't say you're making a mistake, but if you start another RfA, you can expect my support. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 03:14, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
• I somehow just came across this -- it slipped through my radar -- when I was confused by your lack of an admin flag in a page history, figured a script was on the fritz...boy, was I surprised. I'm sorry to see that you have given up the bit but do understand your reasoning and empathize. Thank you for your work as an admin, Tamzin. It might not have felt like it but it was greatly appreciated by myself and others. I hope to still see you around the 'pedia. ♥ --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 05:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Would you have any interest in vetting the History section at User:Valereee/ Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender to remove any stupidity or ignorance on my part? (Any TPS also invited to edit.) Valereee (talk) 13:46, 21 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello, please self-revert your latest edit to the MfD or I will be bringing this matter to the ANI for violating WP:NPA. Thank you Durchbruchmüller 22:07, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Lol fuck off. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Tamzin, would you like to go to ANI and dance that dance, or shall I just block them? Drmies (talk) 22:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

A sock, Doc? Such a shock. Good block. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Well that was fun. Nice alliteration. Do you want to go to that MfD and strike out all their comments? Enjoy, Drmies (talk) 22:21, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I have a previously scheduled trepanation that seems much more pleasant. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hmm I'm sorry to hear that. What's for dinner? Drmies (talk) 22:28, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Me, if they do it wrong. Got a 100% discount for agreeing to that. But I trust Fat Sal and his whole team at the auto body shop. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Back in February, you told me that a living person's page needed to be more neutral than I had it.

Would it be appropriate to include a description that a company was criticized for being transphobic, if two sources I have (articles from LGBTQ Nation and The Mary Sue) characterize the organization as that?

Article One: Ex-Levi's president launches anti-trans sports clothing brand XX-XY Athletics

Article Two: Former Levi's Exec and COVID Denier Launches First Transphobic Clothing Line Rhino Ryan (talk) 01:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Today I got around to publishing two responses to things people have been asking me about.

The first is in response to queries, comments, and well-wishes by, among others, @DreamRimmer, Trainsandotherthings, Wilhelm Tell aDCCXLVI, Sawyer777, Bilorv, DFlhb, Ingenuity, Thebiguglyalien, Callitropsis, Dialmayo, Selfstudier, ~delta, QuicoleJR, Tryptofish, Seraphimblade, Star Mississippi, Sdkb, Patient Zero, HistoryTheorist, Queen of Hearts, DMacks, Frostly, SWinxy, TheSandDoctor, The Night Watch, JBW, Valereee, JPxG, Xeno, and RadioactiveBoulevardier. (If you've had something to say and I missed your name, please take no offense.) I recorded this back in March, in response to many of y'all either asking why I'd resigned, saying you hoped to see me back, or equally saying you completely understood. I never got around to editing it down, but was spurred to do that after a conversation yesterday with Vami_IV (Z''L)'s sister, so, here it is: File:On the backrooms.ogg. Transcript available at c:TimedText:On the backrooms (essay by Tamzin).oga.en.srt for those deaf, hard of hearing, or just not that interested into listening to my voice for 22:52—although I do think it works best as audio.

The second is in response to "Wikipedia's Indian problem: settler colonial erasure of native American knowledge and history on the world’s largest encyclopedia" by Kyle Keeler: User:Tamzin/Public response to the editors of Settler Colonial Studies. (CC Gråbergs Gråa Sång.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We share some of the same. I think everytime people scream Cabal/Unblockables (I'm guilty of the latter) they tend to get partially ignored because their behavior is under a microscope for something. However, there's often a grain of truth. I'm a legacy editor and some of us are wonderful, but some legacy editors have burnt out and it comes across and its part of why AN* is a cesspool. Yes, there are the POV pushers and trolls, but there are also a lot of us (I include myself on both sides of this) hashing old grudges and it's not productive. If I'd been AWOL long enough pre COVID I'd likely never have asked for the mop back. I try not to be part of the problem, but I know I'm not always the solution either. I wish you peace with your decision and hope to still see you around. Star Mississippi 01:59, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Well that's the thing, isn't it, Star. The people who have good introspection are never the ones who need to have it. I can't recall ever having a problem with how you handled anything... But either way, like I said, the problem is rarely the individuals, and much more often the system we've all created. And I don't have a solution for that really, other than to back away and hope someone else fixes it eventually. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 02:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Same. I always felt your actions or lack thereof in a case were backed up by reason and logic. Star Mississippi 02:33, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Still thinking, will probably get back to you soon. The Night Watch (talk) 02:09, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'm making a recording for you. I've never been a good speaker and it probably won't be as good as yours, but I'll try. The Night Watch (talk) 17:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

as a newer editor (i've only been consistently active since last august or so) and an autistic person, and as someone who loves people-watching and lurking around trying to understand the dynamics of human social capital, i've found wikipedia to be well... exactly how you describe. i have a bad habit of reading ANI (i've even got it open in a tab as i type this) & trawling through the depths of past arbcom proceedings purely out of fascination; i could point to several threads on ANI right now that are crystal-clear examples of the double standards you point out. i've even found myself falling into the mindset of "do i have enough social capital to bring this up [to ANI, etc], or should i just hope that someone else more 'senior' than i will see it too and do something about it". i really appreciate you putting this into words, and since joining i've found your willingness to speak your mind, both onwiki & on discord, refreshing.

i've never fully read through Vami's RfA nor yours, and i don't plan on it at this point, but i knew Vami for a few too-short months mostly via the discord server. i was kind of surprised when in january he offered to collaborate with me on Gates of Heaven Synagogue, as in my mind i was a lowly noob with a single GA and he an Experienced Content Writer - i recall finding out about how he'd been treated previously shortly before his death, and i guess i don't have a single solid conclusion to this thought, but it's made me reflect a lot on my short tenure here. i think we can all learn a lot from Vami, and like him, be kind and collegial regardless of early-2000s notions of social capital that still have such a grip on projectspace. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 04:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

If i understood it right, you sent that to the journal. I'd be interested to hear of any response you get. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: I tried at least! I used the online correction request form, about 30 minutes after I published the page on-wiki. But I didn't receive any confirmation of receipt. Maybe T&F doesn't do that? Guess we'll see. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 16:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Apparently it did make it through! ... To the help desk for all of T&F, who have now forwarded it to the journal's production team. Will keep y'all posted. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Very thoughtful analysis in both. If you're healthier and happier not being an admin, I'm glad for you that you made that choice. I 100% agree that the effects of social capital on the culture here are often dismaying. Valereee (talk) 13:47, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I want to thank you for posting this. It was thought-provoking. I took it in, yesterday, and waited a day before deciding how I wanted to reply. Most importantly, I agree with Valereee that what matters is what makes you healthier and happier. As I often say, it's only a website. The other thing that occurs to me is that a while back I wrote WP:DEFARGE out of concerns about drama boards that are at least somewhat similar to your own concerns. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am thankful for your response, Tamzin. There were serious inaccuracies with what Mr. Keeler wrote. I have no doubt he is an amazing professor but he got his research wrong if that was his ultimate summation of Wikipedia and editors here. For a bit of clarity, Corbie and I clashed at times, usually over newbie mistakes I made in haste of trying to improve articles, in good faith, but ending up not doing so. We also clashed on ideas I think were miscommunications that, for my part, I don't think I took in consideration enough. But I loved Corbie being here as another voice. I never had an issue with her position on Indigenous topics as we generally lined up. My issue with her is found in what was discovered or was relayed in the AN discussion you started.

I took part in the discussion on Talk:Reservation Dogs where Revirvlkodlaku was being disruptive and received a block from Mark Ironie. There was never any indication Mark knew Corbie or had any connection or, despite the valid reason for a block, I would have asked for a review. Look, there may be people that don't like me here, that think I make poor arguments or have misguided positions. I accept criticism. Some may even question how real I am about my positions or who I am. But the fact is I try to show in everything, whether I am right or wrong, I am at least genuine and I stand for something. I admire that quality in others. As much as I want Corbie and IG here, and I so do (I miss them), I was floored by the information Corbie and Mark knew each other and in my view that made Mark an involved admin and he shouldn't have made the block.

You made a fine admin and your resignation, though painful to see, was understandable. I appreciated your candidness and thoroughness with what you wrote. I hope there is a response to your open letter. Tamzin, when I say I wish all health and happiness to you I mean ever single word. Thank you for your service as an admin. --ARoseWolf 18:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

One of the things that I liked about your on the backrooms statement is it gave an excellent description to something that came up here, where I said It is unfortunate that CTOP often serves to set a minefield for newer editors who don't know how to play the WP:GAME. and caught a ration of shit from Nyb about it. I replied, in part, with I certainly hope that I didn't come across as supporting or aspiring "playing the game" and marching in rigid formation. That's just how editing in CTOPs plays out with the sanctions regime in place, and the long-term editors in those topics know how to toe the line, and often how to get others to flinch over it. That is not good, bad, and certainly not the way things should work. However, it is the way things work. You just happened to explain it much better than I. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for both of these. And thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing a transcript of the audio file! I was very surprised by some of the things you said there. (I would never have thought you shared my distaste for being a hall monitor/prefect!) I may share my thoughts, here or in an e-mail. But I have one serious niggle about your Signpost letter that I'm going to post as a comment there. Yngvadottir (talk) 01:33, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I joined this site immediately after COVID lockdowns began. My mental model of Wikipedia reminds me a lot of politics and the judiciary in a democracy like in America. Social capital is sowed and reaped to enact changes, and uninvolved people make binding decisions like a judge would. I think it's a useful framework to use. It diverges with the fact that we're not really a bureaucracy or a democracy, but the roles and norms are the same. But lawyers and judges and justices following norms is something great.

No one person is capable of reading all of ANI. Users go in and out inconsistently, resulting in inconsistent outcomes. (I never considered this to present a challenge to some on the autistic spectrum, and it's worth more of my time to consider.) One useful trick I think we ought to learn from circuit courts is the randomization of assigning cases (i.e. threads) to an admin in a pool. Their specialization is to deal with these cases, and dole out decisions consistently. Likewise, some users specialize in being justices, sitting on the supreme court (an analogy I think is unassailable). Specialization matters, even here when power is so evenly-distributed.

But halfway between when I joined and now, around 2022, is when I think I started to see other editors as colleagues. Proper colleagues. I imagine everyone in a discussion as sitting around a drawing room in a mansion, fire blazing, we're all in red robes drinking wine. We're asking each other deep questions and debating to get to some truth, putting on different hats. Other times I imagine them as researchers doing their own research, as a scholar. But still colleagues. My shift to this thinking has been positive: I get less frustrated and more complacent with the wills of other people when things don't go my way. It's all culture and capital, but it's also in the eye of the beholder. I can summarily reject any cultural capital someone has accrued. And we can get more ideal outcomes that way, individually. Maybe. SWinxy (talk) 04:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

story · music · places

Thank you today for Capri-Sun, written together, introduced: "Capri-Sun debuted in West Germany in 1969. Since then, it has become a global brand, one made distinctive by its stand-up Doy-N-Pack pouch. Growing up, you could find a Capri-Sun in the lunchbox of that kid you hated. These days you can find them center-stage in French hip-hop culture as "the new ostentatious elixir of French rappers and gangsters". In the United States, Capri Sun is associated with wholesome things like picnics, soccer practice, and having for 16 years been licensed to one of the world's largest tobacco companies, which applied its expertise at both selling products to children and misleading the public about products' health effects, in a marketing strategy so effective that you're probably still thinking about that kid from two sentences ago. Childhood consumption of sugary beverages increased, and so did childhood obesity, but admittedly Pacific Cooler does taste great. - Initially, Tamzin and I thought this was gonna be a quick adventure – we thought we'd quickly flip a good number of soft drink articles, maybe even get a good topic. Capri-Sun quickly proved to be no insignificant task, though – it's the longest article either of us can put our names on, with every word of prose written from scratch. To our knowledge, this is the most comprehensive independent work on Capri-Sun in existence. We got it to GA in early 2023 after a couple months' work, making it one of two GAs on a soft drink and the only one on a juice beverage. Then, it just sat for a while. But after dusting off the ol' thing and giving it the last few bits it was missing, it is with much pride and added sugar that we finally push this towards the finish line. :)"! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:31, 22 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey Tamzin! I did not see until today this was your project. I read Capri-Sun on the front page and very much enjoyed it. Nice stuff! BusterD (talk) 03:20, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

		The Admin's Barnstar
		I stated in the discussion below the vote that I felt quite bad for whichever poor admin got tasked with closing the ADL RfC - props for being one of the ones to do so! The Kip (contribs) 21:40, 22 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@The Kip: Thanks! Although I've got some bad news for you about your choice of barnstar. 😛 -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:04, 22 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Whoops, my bad haha. I'll leave it as-is, though - thought that counts and all that. The Kip ^(contribs) 22:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'm glad it was you two helping The Wordsmith performing the close. I can't say I agree 100% with your close, which (by my reckoning) puts your pitch right in the sweet spot. Thanks for taking that responsibility with leek. BusterD (talk) 03:30, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'll have you know, BusterD, that according to (an otherwise pretty good piece by) the JTA, The Wordsmith, leek, and I are all a single editor. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 03:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Ha hahahahaha. Hahah! Hah! Hah! Huhhah! Hooooooohaaaaaah! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hhahahahahahahaha. Haha. Haha. ha. ha. ah. Ahem. BusterD (talk) 04:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

That would put you all in violat.... hahhhahahahahahahahaha! Hoooooohaaaaaaah! Ohhhhhhhh hahhhhhhhh! I'm sorry... BusterD (talk) 04:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

First people called me a sock for being more than one person. Now they call me a sock for being less than one! -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 04:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Keep: I agree wholeheartedly with Tamzin. Right as always. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 05:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

That would be an extraordinary claim. And we all know extraordinary claims have steep sourcing requirements. Mere accusation may have worked for some previously. Here you'd need proof AND a consensus. It's amazing how some people don't realize this almost always works in justice's favor. If ad hominem is all they've got, you've already won the argument. BusterD (talk) 05:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello Tamzin, I hope you are doing great. I noticed that 'zinbot has not reviewed any RfDed redirects since 17 April 2024. Maybe it needs a fix? – DreamRimmer (talk) 06:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

@DreamRimmer: I think @TheresNoTime was looking into this, as they run that side of the bot. Hey Sammy! Fox sighting recently here! First in over a year. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 16:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'll take a look when I get a moment ^^ and oh cool, the foxes are back! 🦊 — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 18:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

*foxen -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the update. If you ever need an extra pair of hands to help maintain this tool in the future, I'd be happy to help out :) – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

@DreamRimmer @Pppery, also @Robertsky: Very sorry for the delay here.   Fixed There were a few issues, primarily that no one made the requested notification when Ahecht modified the template's output in April. Still, it's my fault this took so long to fix. Ideally I'd like to make the bot load a cached version of the template's output periodically, to remove the dependency on manual updates, but I'm still mulling over the best way to dynamically turn that output into a regex without letting through false positives. It was suggested at some point in the past that maybe my conservativism in looking for the exact output of {{subst:RfD|<redirect>}} was excessive, since while it does reduce the risk of patrolling vandalism, that's a very low risk to begin with, and any such vandalism would usually be low-visibility, plus vandalism can always occur after the patrolling regardless. So I'm tempted to just check for an {{#invoke:RfD... and leave it at that. But I'm not sure yet. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 23:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I must've missed that box since all the others were talking only about breaking changes, not just HTML changes. My mistake. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 03:53, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Tamzin. I don't think we've ever interacted on WP but there's a first time for everything, right?

Your userpage has frankly given me a lot of pause recently. Especially your "On the backrooms" off-the-cuff essay (I read the captions instead though!) and this: if you find yourself spending more time talking about the people who write wikipedia than being one of those people, remember that you can fix that today

I indeed have found myself in that camp and I'm actually studying sociology at the moment as well... so the "social capital" of WP has taken on a much more sad meaning to me. Knowing that an ugly but I guess inevitable part of society has made its way onto this project is... yeah, pretty sad. petty. Waste of time. Pretty much WP:ANI in a nutshell. There is also literally no reason for us--for me--to not be nice to fellow editors. It's easy to bring out our 'mean' sides when a screen separates us.

I'd like to do better with my article writing and constructive contribution. And thank you for steering me (and I'm sure many others) towards the right direction, towards the things that actually MATTER. Every article makes an amazing impact for crying out loud. I always find myself on here researching things I'm studying, and oftentimes, WP beats any other lame search result Google could give me. And that is thanks to the tireless (and often thankless) hard work of editors like Vami--I'd like to be a completionist, to honor his good name with good editing... not a quarreler. — That Coptic Guy^{ping me!} (talk) (contribs) 05:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey Tamzin, the concept of gender nonconformity came up in a discussion and I know you've done some good work on LGBT-related topics. I figured I'd ask if you have any ideas or are interested on working on this? No issues if not, I realize that most Wikipedians already have crazy to do lists as it is. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:27, 7 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Clovermoss: I think I have my hands full right now with rewriting Transgender sexuality, and then a few projects lines up after that too. Thanks for the offer though. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Fair enough. Most Wikipedians have a lot on their plate but I figured the worse I could get is a no. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Please refrain from shitposting on Wikipedia as you did at Andrew Tate. Your edits have been hidden as part of a collapsed discussion.

• If you are engaged in shitposting with another editor, please discuss the off-topic shit with the editor at their talk page, not the article talk page.
• If you are engaged in any other form of shitposting, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's shitposting guidleines, and please do not continue to make shitposts that appear shit. CNC (talk) 00:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

(talk page stalker) Holy crap, I had my finger on the rollback button! Knitsey (talk) 00:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I find this very homophobic against @Drmies. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for sticking up for me, Tamzin. I'm having a hard enough time already with my identity, and now I'm getting collapsed? That's almost like being canceled, isn't it? I'm being oppressed. That's it: I'm going to pet my dog and make creme brulees for my kids. (Is that a gay enough thing to do? I'm so confused.) Drmies (talk) 01:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I need to switch to your brand of coffee. Wow! Thanks for that - JohnInDC (talk) 12:16, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

@JohnInDC: A few weeks clean from it, actually! Did have some Wawa store-brand Arnold Palmer midway through, though. Plus maybe I was a little late on my lithium. Anyways, hope the list is of some use plotting a way forward. My schedule's a bit wonky the next few weeks, running up and down the Northeast Corridor to deal with two and a half familial medical crises, but I hope to get some editing time in on the D.C. article, and I think I've found a few people who'll have time to do deeper dives than I can.

On that note, if any talkpage watchers are in D.C.: 1) I will be there from late on the 5th to midday on the 9th, with moderate availability, and am always happy to grab lunch or coffee (well, not actual coffee, see above) with just about anyone, schedule permitting; and 2) feel free to check out Washington, D.C. and its talk page for discussion of what might need to be done to keep it at FA. Or in the latter case if you're not in D.C. but just like a challenge. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

On your interesting Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-06-08/Opinion

May I suggest linking your work from PubPeer entry on the academic article in question, to give it more visibility? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Piotrus: I don't have the fight in me for all that, but if you'd like to, by all means! -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Tamzin Done (I left a comment linking to your piece). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey, I hope this message finds you well. I’m reaching out to you because of your excellent work on Wikipedia:Hate is disruptive, as well as the discussion at Talk:F1NN5TER about doxxing. The question of how to treat sources that are at least somewhat reliable but are (rightly or wrongly) perceived as prejudiced (either broadly or based on protected class) has been repeatedly discussed on Wiki. Therefore, I think that writing up a „how-to-deal-with-this“ might be useful, titled something along the line of WP:PREJUDICEDSOURCES. What do you think? FortunateSons (talk) 14:48, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

 

I didn't comment in the RFC, but had been keeping an eye on it. That was one of the most clearly written and well rationed closes I've seen in awhile, so I thought I'd give you a whale to help with your cetacean needs. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 17:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

To be fair, her need for cetaceans is seriously overstated. Elli (talk | contribs) 17:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, @ActivelyDisinterested! I may have plenty of cetaceans, but you can never have too many... is something I imagine a B-movie mad scientist character saying. (See also Anderson, M.T. (2005). Whales on Stilts.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Tamzin, thank you for the clear and informative close. Would you consider bolding it is not made at the behest of the Supreme Court of India? It's just that the media has been synthesizing together "Supreme Court demands Wikipedia to remove name" and "Wikipedia removes name" together in headlines. Svampesky (talk) 18:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Svampesky: I actually did have it boldfaced in the first draft, but I decided I didn't want to put too fine a point on that and come off as hostile. I think it's best to let people read the full close and focus on whichever details they want to. But I might be convinced otherwise if there's particularly glaring media misunderstandings. Can you point to ones you've seen? I only see [1], which predates my close. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The Hindu headline you referenced and Business Standard: Kolkata rape case: SC orders financial probe, Wikipedia to remove names [2]. They are both broadsheets or newspapers of record, so anything printed in them (including synthesized headlines) would be trusted by the general reader. Svampesky (talk) 18:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Svampesky: But these both seem to be about the order and the WMF's response, not the RfC's outcome? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The name was preemptively removed before the RfC closed, and the synthesized headlines give the impression that this removal was done in response to a court order. I believe we need to strongly emphasize that we didn't do that, in the case of further misreporting/synthesized headlines. Svampesky (talk) 20:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I see your point, but I'm still not sold that boldfacing that bit would do more good than harm. Imagine a mischaracterizatiom in the opposite direction: "Western Wikipedians reject Indian Supreme Court's authority". It was a delicate edge to walk, and I'm still inclined to let the full close speak for itself. Do others have thoughts? Pings @ActivelyDisinterested & also @Johnuniq, Cabayi, and Chaotic Enby, since they thanked me for the close. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I would think boldfacing it could help, as I don't really see that mischaracterization as being equally harmful (we are, indeed, not making editorial decisions based on court authorities), while it might otherwise be missed by journalists conflating our close with the Supreme Court order.

However, you make a good point that we shouldn't have this close appear to be coming from a Western perspective, and input from Indian Wikipedians more knowledgeable with their country's media and cultural norms would be far superior to my own thoughts on that whole matter. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:14, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done on Wikipedia about news sources incorrectly reporting the details. The close is clear about the issues involved and the rejection of the court order as a controlling factor. Personally I don't see a need to bold those words. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am fairly confident that, unfortunate though it is, the ship has already sailed on our making the parties to the court case, the court itself, the broader stakeholders, and the world at large aware of the fact that this was in essence a voluntary decision predicated on internal policies and considerations. Bluntly, the community was asleep at the wheel on this one: the ultimate decision was more or less a foregone conclusion, and the time to codify it as such was before Wikipedia was made party to the case--or at the very least, before the ruling was rendered. Now we have left outside institutions in general, and the Supreme Court and government of India in particular, with the possible impression that we acceded to their authority and judgment.

That could very well factor in to a future decision by the court (or any number of other entities) to similarly attempt to force our hand on content they deem actionable under the domestic law of a particular country. With very little guarantee that next time our own eventual analysis of the issue will align our consensus decision with what is wanted by the court/sovereign seeking to enforce its decision on any such future occasion. This is a bad precedent that didn't need to happen, which could play into future tensions between the community, outside parties, and the WMF. I'm not sure exactly what they are, but I am certain there are lessons to be learned from this situation about seeking broader community input in such cases long before the point of such problematic outcomes. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 06:33, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Oh, but the point that brought me here in the first place: I too wish to thank Tamzin for taking on the highly visible close and making a good account of themselves at the task. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 06:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Anyone wanting to make a political statement should consider adding something to their user page. This kind of issue will arise again and each case will have to be handled on its merits. Pointing to some bold text on an old talk page won't help. If an article were written like that close, it would get an immediate FA rating. Johnuniq (talk) 00:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

• Well done. And my compliments are not given too often, so take it for what it's worth, but you did a truly good job on this close. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:14, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Thank you, @Seraphimblade, and @The Herald below. I wonder if there'd be any interest in an essay on writing difficult closes? Not the consensus-weighing part—hopefully anyone taking on a high-profile close already knows how to do that—but the strategies of how to phrase things in a way that will leave everyone... maybe not happy, but at least not enraged. Or maybe someone's already written such an essay, I don't know. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

  It's an essay I'd love to read. If there's already one, a link would be so helpful. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 19:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I do not know of any, but there really probably should be. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your work on that close, quite impressive. I'm looking forward to reading your close on this (so far hypothetical) rfc:[3]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:16, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: It begins "First, we must consider the arguments raised regarding tenure, neutrality, cross-wiki experience, and representativeness of the global community as a whole", and ends "There being no consensus, but a null outcome not being an option, I find that the least bad solution is to go with the person who satisfies all four of those criteria while having done the least to upset anyone. My first thought, Example, is actually only attached on a few wikis, and for whatever reason is sockblocked on Commons. Instead I select MediaWiki message delivery, albeit with some trepidation given its erstwhile 2-minute block on enwiki, and given the time it added [[Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo|bison]] to a few thousand pages and I had to clean it up. In the highly likely event that this close is overturned but no new consensus is found, my fallback pick is whoever closes the overturn discussion." -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you so much for writing that, made my day! @Ravensfire, you don't want to miss this, but careful with the soda. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Tamzin, you might find this [4][5] a bit interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

 

Thriley has given you a pack of Toblerone bars! Chocolate promotes WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Toblerone bars are wonderfully delicious! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a pack of Toblerone bars, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

Fantastic work on Celebrity Number Six!

Spread the goodness of Toblerone bars by adding {{subst:Toblerone for you}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

Thriley (talk) 20:01, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

		The Deletion to Quality Award
		For your contributions to bring Celebrity Number Six (prior candidate for deletion at: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Celebrity Number Six) to Good Article status, I hereby present you The Deletion to Quality Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! TompaDompa (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, TompaDompa, and thank you for the thorough GA review! I actually have a second candidate for this pending at GAN right now, this one a proper AfD save that I was even a delete on initially, Death of Richard Swanson (AfD). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:06, 10 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello,

The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Wikipedia, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this anonymous survey.

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC) Reply

Hi, sorry, this may not be worth this message, but I thought I'd let you know that the last two diffs you linked in your comment in today's Lightburst ANI thread ("commented again" and "replied") are not the ones you meant to link, I believe (the correct ones are just one away for each though, so it's not like the sources for the quoted text are impossible to find). Feel free to ignore/remove this message :) Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 23:32, 25 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Felida97: Oh, thanks! It was the issue that comes up if you cycle through diffs using "next". Fixed now. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 00:23, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sorry to bug you over this, Tamzin, but since you just closed the split proposal, I'm hoping you saw the "poisoning the well" comment directed towards me just before.[6] One of the diffs they do show is me literally giving an apology. I get they think my conduct is subpar but I don't think laying that all out there (complete with the aforementioned PA and others in there) and then wanting me to discuss content in the next paragraph is fair. Could you by chance remove the PAs? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  01:48, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@GhostOfDanGurney: I am not an admin, and closed the discussion just as any ol' content editor chipping in. If you have a user conduct concern, you should bring that to WP:AE under ARBIPA, or to WP:AN/I if you prefer worse feedback. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:51, 26 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

The 2024 WikiCup has come to an end, with the final round being a very tight race. Our new champion is   AirshipJungleman29 (submissions), who scored 2,283 points mainly through 3 high-multiplier FAs and 3 GAs on military history topics. By a 1% margin, Airship beat out last year's champion,   BeanieFan11 (submissions), who scored second with 2,264 points, mainly from an impressive 58 GAs about athletes. In third place,   Generalissima (submissions) scored 1,528 points, primarily from two FAs on U.S. Librarians of Congress and 20 GAs about various historical topics. Our other finalists are:   Sammi Brie (submissions) with 879 points,   Hey man im josh (submissions) with 533 points,   BennyOnTheLoose (submissions) with 432 points,   Arconning (submissions) with 244 points, and   AryKun (submissions) with 15 points. Congratulations to our finalists and all who participated!

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If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs), Epicgenius (talk · contribs), and Frostly (talk · contribs). MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:49, 1 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Death of Richard Swanson you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria.   This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of WikiOriginal-9 -- WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

The article Death of Richard Swanson you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:Death of Richard Swanson for comments about the article, and Talk:Death of Richard Swanson/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of WikiOriginal-9 -- WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 03:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi Tamzin. I completely misread your comment so I removed my reply. Would appreciate if you would remove yours too since that's not how I intend to respond. It's getting late where I am so I'll see about writing a proper response tomorrow. -Fastily 06:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sure. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 06:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Fastily: For what it's worth, I really avoid participating at AN/I as much as I can help it. So maybe it conveys how alarmed I was at your treatment of Clovermoss and Fathoms Below that I felt I had to make an exception. Or maybe it doesn't; not like you're under any obligation to think I have good judgment. Either way, I've said my piece in the thread, and I'll leave it to calmer minds than mine (that's a joke, it's AN/I we're talking about) to figure out where to go from here. So no need to ping on reply or anything like that. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 08:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Please see Template talk:Archive top yellow#Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2024, same css spillover problem as the others you fixed. – 2804:F1...86:83AA (talk) 19:56, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Elliiiiiiiiiiii weren't you gonna do this? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Fixed it now. And yes I was meaning to do so earlier, but I forgot. Elli (talk | contribs) 20:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

You have reverted my edit on Whitestripes,Ledecite means like,a paragraph, not a whole citationless section, UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 20:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

(talk page jaguar) No, WP:LEADCITE very specifically articulates that citations are generally not required in the lead section of an article, as it is meant to be a summary of the cited material in the body. Remsense ‥ 论 20:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yes, Remsense has it right. I've elaborated in my revert summary. Note in particular that LEADCITE contemplates misunderstandings of this nature, and explicitly uses the word "lead sections": As editors are often unaware of this guideline, good faith should be assumed when {{citation needed}} tags are added to lead sections sometimes erroneously. {{Leadcite comment}} can be added to article leads that often attract unwarranted {{citation needed}} tags. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:17, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

then what is the point of the existence of Template:US? UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 22:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

To be used in any section except the lead. Maybe the template's documentation should say that. If you see a lead section that contains statements not verified in the body of the article, there's {{Lead extra info}}. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

That template is for sections that require references. The lead does not require references. Remsense ‥ 论 22:36, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Tamzin,Okay you are right UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 23:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I see you have applied Talkpage expectations,I am intrested of applying some to my own talkpage,but how? UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 18:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@UnsungHistory: You can copy the source code at User talk:Tamzin/Expectations and modify accordingly. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)Reply