Talk:2023 Atlantic hurricane season
Latest comment: 10 days ago by Shmego2 in topic PTC 22 article???
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Q1: Why are we counting the unnamed subtropical storm as a named storm?
A1: Even though it wasn't given a name like Arlene, it was functionally the same as any other named tropical or subtropical storm. Q2: When can a storm get its own article?
A2: A storm qualifies for a standalone article when it becomes sufficiently notable. This usually occurs after a storm produces significant land impacts. For more information, see Wikipedia:Notability (weather)#Tropical cyclones. We also cannot predict if an invest will be notable per Wikipedia:Crystal ball. Q3: Why is Gert put before Emily and Franklin?
A3: Gert formed a day before Emily and Franklin and was classified as Tropical Depression Six by the National Hurricane Center (NHC) because it was the sixth tropical cyclone to form during the 2023 season, and we follow the NHC practice of ordering systems by order of formation, not strictly alphabetically. |
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PTC 22
editWhy is it being removed from the article? If it doesn’t develop, will it be mentioned as an "other system"? It should be notable enough through forecasted impacts. 2605:8D80:402:FCAF:6049:D5EE:7F4F:1D6C (talk) 03:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- It will likely be included as an additional system, similar to last year's PTC Four. CycloneYoris talk! 07:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- We cant really look at projected impacts as it violates WP:Crystal and they could very easily change.
- One question, I have is how related do two storm systems need to be before they get a see also hatnote. I did hear this system might feed into another to the north. ✶Mitch199811✶ 12:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- If you're referring to the disturbance that the NHC briefly monitored off the coast of southeast Florida, I'd say that we don't need to make a hatnote of that in the article since it was never a PTC, much less a TC. JayTee⛈️ 13:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- While against WP:Crystal, I was assuming that that systems got an article and PTC 22 fed into it. Though, my question was more general; how much does a tropical system have to feed into another system for a see also hatnote? Also, would the tropical cyclone's article trump the see also hatnote? ✶Mitch199811✶ 14:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- If one tropical system feeds into another then it's mentioned in the tropical cyclone's met history/summary. For example, 2005's Tropical Depression Ten is mentioned in the Meteorological history of Hurricane Katrina because it fed into the system that turned into Katrina. Since the disturbance off the coast of Florida has not been confirmed to have contributed in any way to PTC 22, it's not worth mentioning. We generally don't leave hatnotes on TC articles unless it's to specify a damage currency, meteorological statistic, etc. For more clarification on how to use a footnote marker see WP:FOOTNOTES.JayTee⛈️ 17:25, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- It looks like it isn’t going to form which is odd, but it is definitely noteworthy enough as an other system from the massive flooding in the Caribbean. 2605:8D80:402:FCAF:DCE7:7791:E58F:853A (talk) 23:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Eh, right now most news stations are saying forecasted to be deadly or forecasted to produce loads of rain. We should wait a day or two before we decide if it needs an article. ✶Mitch199811✶ 03:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- It looks like it isn’t going to form which is odd, but it is definitely noteworthy enough as an other system from the massive flooding in the Caribbean. 2605:8D80:402:FCAF:DCE7:7791:E58F:853A (talk) 23:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- If one tropical system feeds into another then it's mentioned in the tropical cyclone's met history/summary. For example, 2005's Tropical Depression Ten is mentioned in the Meteorological history of Hurricane Katrina because it fed into the system that turned into Katrina. Since the disturbance off the coast of Florida has not been confirmed to have contributed in any way to PTC 22, it's not worth mentioning. We generally don't leave hatnotes on TC articles unless it's to specify a damage currency, meteorological statistic, etc. For more clarification on how to use a footnote marker see WP:FOOTNOTES.JayTee⛈️ 17:25, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- While against WP:Crystal, I was assuming that that systems got an article and PTC 22 fed into it. Though, my question was more general; how much does a tropical system have to feed into another system for a see also hatnote? Also, would the tropical cyclone's article trump the see also hatnote? ✶Mitch199811✶ 14:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- If you're referring to the disturbance that the NHC briefly monitored off the coast of southeast Florida, I'd say that we don't need to make a hatnote of that in the article since it was never a PTC, much less a TC. JayTee⛈️ 13:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA23 - Sect 202 - Thu
edit This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2023 and 14 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EdereOmnes (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lotsobear555 (talk) 15:30, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Potential tropical cyclone 22 (section Other system)
editThe reference (https://dominicantoday.com/amp/news?id=198595&title=9-dead-due-to-collapse-of-wall-at-27-de-febrero-and-maximo-gomez) cited for 9 deaths in the Dominican Republic does not mention that the collapse of the overpass wall was due to heavy rain. The event could be totally unrelated and I think this News should NOT be included in the effects of this PTC. Pierre cb (talk) 14:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Mention of the event has been removed. Drdpw (talk) 16:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Lead engineering
editNovember 30 is right around the corner meaning the end of the season. I think we should start preparing what the lead could look like now, especially since last year I think we left it unfinished for a couple months. My proposal:
The 2023 Atlantic Hurricane Season was one of the most active on record. However, most tropical cyclones were industrictive and weak. It had an about average number of hurricanes and major hurricanes (those above a Category 3 on the SSHWS) but an above average ACE.
It is slightly informal and could be worked on. If sources mention it, we should mention it was the most active El Nino on record. ✶Mitch199811✶ 21:15, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- I would prefer something along the lines of this, personally (the source for fourth-most active is here):
- The 2023 Atlantic hurricane season was the fourth most active Atlantic hurricane season on record, featuring 20 named storms, 7 hurricanes, 3 major hurricanes, and an above-average Accumulated Cyclone Energy.
- We could expand on this later in the lead:
- Despite the above-average number of storms, the number of hurricanes and major hurricanes fell within the climatological average.
- In the second paragraph we could note the impactful storms Bret, Franklin, Harold, Idalia, Lee, Ophelia, Phillipe, Tammy and Twenty-One. We could also note (if a reliable source states this) that the season was less destructive and deadly than previous years. JayTee⛈️ 04:02, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Two things:
- Do we have to mention that a major hurricane is above a Category 3
- Are Twenty-One and Bret really all that impactful? Also, I feel like we should mention Twenty-Two and Unnamed somewhere in there.
- ✶Mitch199811✶ 12:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- 1. I believe that should be mentioned in a footnote, yes.
- 2. I think Bret and Twenty-One are still worth mentioning considering they struck large populated areas. I think Twenty-Two is better off left in the Other Systems section. Unnamed could be mentioned in the first paragraph about how “tropical cyclogenesis is possible at any time of the year, as demonstrated by the formation of…”
- JayTee⛈️ 14:34, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- One thing that annoys me is that normally we are not supposed to put single digit numbers in logogram form, but instead write them out. However, the existence of twenty-one kinda throws a wrench in the design as we have to put it in logogram form. ✶Mitch199811✶ 04:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- "Tropical Depression Twenty-One" is a proper name (technical term) and so the number is written, not the numeral – 21. See: MOS:NUMERAL. Drdpw (talk) 05:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, I misread twenty as twenty-one in JayTee's lead. Could we write out the words for the numbers, e.g. twenty named storms, seven hurricanes, and three major hurricanes? Further, is it possible to rewrite the storm predictions as words? ✶Mitch199811✶ 11:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- I think we should write out the names to differentiate them from the name of TD Twenty-One, thanks for noticing that. Which storm predictions were you referring to? JayTee⛈️ 12:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I did some work on the first paragraph, enhancing what had already been done. I think the lead needs a third paragraph addressing how El Niño caused the Bermuda High to be weak, permitting systems to curve northward, as opposed to being pushed westward towards the Gulf or the U.S. Atlantic coast, limiting their impact (death and destruction) on land (Even though there was a high number of systems this year, just three made landfall in the U.S.). Drdpw (talk) 21:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- Citations for Bermuda high influences:[1][2]. ✶Mitch199811✶ 23:06, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- NOAA has noted that the season was the most active El Nino season in "the modern era", likely meaning the satellite era...Do we think we should add this? Gumballs678 talk 00:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Source:https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/2023-atlantic-hurricane-season-ranks-4th-for-most-named-storms-in-year
- It already is included. Drdpw (talk) 22:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- I missed it the first time, I see it now, thanks! Gumballs678 talk 00:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- It already is included. Drdpw (talk) 22:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- NOAA has noted that the season was the most active El Nino season in "the modern era", likely meaning the satellite era...Do we think we should add this? Gumballs678 talk 00:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Source:https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/2023-atlantic-hurricane-season-ranks-4th-for-most-named-storms-in-year
- Citations for Bermuda high influences:[1][2]. ✶Mitch199811✶ 23:06, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I did some work on the first paragraph, enhancing what had already been done. I think the lead needs a third paragraph addressing how El Niño caused the Bermuda High to be weak, permitting systems to curve northward, as opposed to being pushed westward towards the Gulf or the U.S. Atlantic coast, limiting their impact (death and destruction) on land (Even though there was a high number of systems this year, just three made landfall in the U.S.). Drdpw (talk) 21:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I think we should write out the names to differentiate them from the name of TD Twenty-One, thanks for noticing that. Which storm predictions were you referring to? JayTee⛈️ 12:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, I misread twenty as twenty-one in JayTee's lead. Could we write out the words for the numbers, e.g. twenty named storms, seven hurricanes, and three major hurricanes? Further, is it possible to rewrite the storm predictions as words? ✶Mitch199811✶ 11:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- "Tropical Depression Twenty-One" is a proper name (technical term) and so the number is written, not the numeral – 21. See: MOS:NUMERAL. Drdpw (talk) 05:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- One thing that annoys me is that normally we are not supposed to put single digit numbers in logogram form, but instead write them out. However, the existence of twenty-one kinda throws a wrench in the design as we have to put it in logogram form. ✶Mitch199811✶ 04:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Two things:
TCR Track maps?
editAre the track maps for Don, Gert, Emily, Jose, Nigel, and Rina ever going to be updated to reflect their TCRs? EPicmAx4 (talk) 02:51, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- I will likely get to it in the next day or two since I am on winter break. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 03:13, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- Are you still planning on getting to it? 24.144.60.224 (talk) 22:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- IP editor, please be patient. MarioProtIV only has so much time and this might not be their priority. If you want it done faster, you can learn all the tricks and download all the programmes and do it yourself. ✶Quxyz✶ 23:59, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- Are you still planning on getting to it? 24.144.60.224 (talk) 22:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
TCR Track Maps In Need Of Serious Update
editHow come the TCR tracks on certain storms haven’t been updated when the TCR reports for them have been out for a while? I’ve noticed that winds and minimum pressure have been updated but the tracks haven’t. I’d update them myself, but I do not have the software to do so. 2600:1700:ECA0:4820:84DF:A9B0:C28E:E230 (talk) 19:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- See the discussion above. Please be patient over the next few weeks as they work to get them updated. Gumballs678 talk 04:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- it has been almost a month, where are the tracks CarterStormTracking (talk) 23:42, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- They will be done eventually, be patient or do it yourself. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- it has been almost a month, where are the tracks CarterStormTracking (talk) 23:42, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
PTC 22 article???
editAt 32 deaths, shouldn’t an article exist? 2600:4808:610:7C01:49F7:A3F0:2A96:2B1C (talk) 22:16, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's no article or drafts currently but hey, I might make one, I'm just a bit lazy. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 13:00, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
- I actually do have a draft that I have been working on and off on in my user space. I wouldn’t mind moving it to the regular draft space.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- @IrishSurfer21 Have you been working on this draft at all? I would gladly help expand it if you want to reignite interest in it. Shmego2 (talk) 00:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I actually do have a draft that I have been working on and off on in my user space. I wouldn’t mind moving it to the regular draft space.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's a redirect page, dont know if it could be turned into an article (I'm not that familiar yet with Wikipedia). SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 14:44, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
Proposed merge of Tropical Storm Bret (2023) into 2023 Atlantic hurricane season
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Not a notable storm (>$445,000 and no fatalities is not notable enough for a storm to merit its own article) and very small in size (14,200 bytes, 820 words*). No important meteorological records were broken, even after the Tropical Cyclone Report. The article would better off as a section of its season article.
*Including the words in the lead ZZZ'S 15:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- Support – Coverage of this storm was limited, and what coverage there was demonstrates that the storm did not have a significant impact on land. Also, this thin article contains little information beyond what is already in the season article. This storm did nothing to merit a stand-alone article. Drdpw (talk) 16:15, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - the season article is too long as it is. I would rather Bret's section get trimmed a bit more than merge it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure adding less than 820 words into the season article won't make much of a difference. I'd expect the sections about very notable articles like Hurricane Idalia to be trimmed. In fact, after reviewing Bret's article and season section, the only information that should be merged is all in the preparations and impact sections, which is only about 10k bytes, so I'd expect less than 10k bytes to remain if the merge proceeded. ZZZ'S 19:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- But when the article is already as long as it is, I don't think anything should be merged at this point. Similar philosophy for other active seasons with long articles (like 2005, 2020). The notability criteria (to the extent there is one) is a bit lower when the season article is so long. If the season article was shorter (and sections like Idalia were a bit shorter) then I could see supporting it, but not with the way the season article is. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure adding less than 820 words into the season article won't make much of a difference. I'd expect the sections about very notable articles like Hurricane Idalia to be trimmed. In fact, after reviewing Bret's article and season section, the only information that should be merged is all in the preparations and impact sections, which is only about 10k bytes, so I'd expect less than 10k bytes to remain if the merge proceeded. ZZZ'S 19:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: I agree with @Hurricanehink for the reasons on keeping this article. I think the article is too long to be merged into the season article and this storm did impact places, even if it was minimal. AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 18:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per @Hurricanehink Shmego2 (talk) 20:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.