User talk:Lord Gøn

Hello, Lord Gøn! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! Pomingalarna (talk) 00:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply] Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

On 7 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Eric Borel, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 21:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kirkwood City Council shooting. This shooting initially had 6 deaths including the shooter's, but the mayor in critical condition died just recently, bringing the shooter's killing toll to 6. Will he qualify for the list, despite that his victim died only months later? {Tim C} 05:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Are there any options to reopen an AfD discussion or overrule its decision, if it is disputed? Its just that the discussion about the Patrick Purdy article was closed with the alleged decision to merge/redirect, while myself and others think that there was actually no consensus, as three were for keeping the article and three others for merging. (Lord Gøn (talk) 18:05, 18 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I'm not sure why you're contacting me about this, as not only had I nothing to do with the decision, but I'm also marked as being semi-inactive at the moment.

To answer your question, you can discuss the situation with the administrator who closed the debate (User:MZMcBride), and if that discussion fails to produce a satisfactory result, you may make a listing at Wikipedia:Deletion review. Stifle (talk) 09:22, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I had put this guy on the mass murderer's discussion page and you must have missed him, but here he is anyway. I stumbled across this one via the NYTIMES archive last night and luckily enough you can read it via a pdf file here [1]. This stowaway killed 11 on a boat, and the article gives two last names, McField or McGill. Its interesting how the Times back at the turn of the century refer to the murderer as "negro", and I'd bet a weeks salary that they wouldn't be able to get away with that now. Anywho, he killed eleven back in 1905, and that's one of the earliest cases of double digit kills that I've found.

And here's [2] another pdf file which seems to confirm the McField surname, as well as what happened to the poor bastard after they got him to shore. Hopefully this guy can be of some use, list-wise that is.....and hopefully the Google archives can turn up some other high scores as well.Longevitymonger (talk) 22:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Lord Gøn. You have new messages at Coffee's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Coffee // have a cup // ark // 04:40, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pickle Lake is a very small town the popualtion is around 500, I heard about the shooting from my great AUnt Phoebe when I went to visit her (she lives in Pickle Lake) she showed me a newspaper article about it, it is true that the story didn't get much coverage because of Pickle Lake's population, I grew up in southern Illinois and it's a fact that News Stations don't cover much of anything about the small and sparsly populated areas. (When I went to high school, there was a shooting threat that was never covered in the news.) The Website I found that from is ran by a Pickle Lake Historian named Dedra who is looking for more stories like that because she feels they need to be covered, thanks --Buffyfan882 (talk) 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you on the island of South Georgia? If so, I would like to be friends with you. When you live in a lonely island, you should not have to fight with others online. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 18:43, 10 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So a bit of fun with details is ok?! :p Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 15:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I understand that your userboxes are just a bit of fun; and it is your unquestioned right to use them for this purpose. The whole broad principle of userboxes has been discussed within wikipedia on several occasions. Some editors like them; many feel that they trivialise a serious encyclopedia project. I personally feel that userboxes have a meaningful function in indicating the status, commitment and quality of an editor contributing to wikipedia. Your boxes do not help me to argue this point. --Anthony.bradbury^"talk" 21:45, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Uhm, I'm not sure why you even bothered to comment on that topic. It's not that I'm involved in some heated debate about the purpose of userboxes, nor do I see why my little collection of silliness in particular is worth of being addressed, when there are countless of userboxes that either exist only to give away absolutely superficial information, or are no less nonsensical than mine. So, I really don't see the point of your comment. If you think that only "meaningful" userboxes should be allowed, then I'm fine with that, though as it stands Wikipedia doesn't disallow a little bit of boxed idiocy. (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Yes. I've been away for a bit and recently returned to online activities within the last few days. I was meaning to get your thoughts on the whole Nidal Hasan case that occurred earlier this month. With this case and the 13 dead in Binghamton earlier this year, I been wondering if anything major will occur here in the states before the year is over. I was also doing a bit of tabulating the other day and found that since the January 2009 Lupoe familicide, there have been 15 cases (including the Lupoe case) of mass murder/spree/familicide with three or more dead in the U.S. alone. Just the other day I was watching CBS news and a man down in Florida shot and killed 4 relatives in an argument after Thanksgiving dinner [3]. That being said, its good to be back. My apologies for the sloppiness of the list below, as it was copy/pasted from my own list made via Microsoft Excel. Who knows, I might have even missed one or two cases! Guy Heinze is included since I really haven't heard much about any other suspects in that particular case. And to think of all the other ones that have occurred outside the states this year!

Erwin Antonio Lupoe (January 27, 2009) Los Angeles, California 6

Michael Kenneth McLendon (March 10, 2009) Samson, Alabama 10

Lovelle Mixon (March 21, 2009) Oakland, California 4

Robert Kenneth Wayne Stewart (March 29, 2009) Carthage, North Carolina 8

Jiverly Antares Wong (April 3, 2009) Binghamton, New York 13

James Harrison (April 3, 2009) Graham, Washington 5

Richard Poplawski (April 4, 2009) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 3

Kevin Garner (April 7, 2009) Priceville, Alabama 4

George M. Zinkhan (April 25, 2009) Athens, Georgia 3

Jacob Levi Sheffer (July 18, 2009) Fayetteville, TN/Huntsville, AL 6

George A. Sodini (August 4, 2009) Bridgeville, Pennsylvania 3

Guy Heinze Jr. (August 29, 2009) Brunswick, Georgia 8

Mesac Damas (September 19, 2009) North Naples, Florida 6

Marcos Chavez Gonzales (November 1, 2009) Mt. Airy, North Carolina 4

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan (November 5, 2009) Fort Hood, Texas 13

This year has really been one for the books. I remember in 1999 a whole slew of shootings occurred (Columbine, Ft. Worth, the Xerox murders, Mark Barton, Buford Furrow) and being a fourteen year old televison/news junkie, I became transfixed in these sort of happenings and began to gather information on them. This in turn led me to the MSNBC series "Dark Heart Iron Hand" a few years later that profiled (at various times) Hennard, Huberty, Barton and John List. From there it kind of took on a life of its own. In 2004, I stumbled upon SpankMe's site and I remember a forum there where like minded individuals could share there interest in this sort of thing. I posted there a number of times myself. That being said, I did have some new findings that I was going to post late last month before I went on my sabbatical, so to speak. Sadly nothing earth shattering, I reckon.

Edwin Albert Batson (February 1902, Welsh, Louisiana): Murdered the six members of the Earl family. The bodies were discovered on Feb. 25. Batson was hanged in August 1903. [4]

Robert McConaughy (31) (May 30, 1840, Hill Valley, near Shirleysburg, Pennsylvania): Murdered the six members of the Brown family with a variety of weapons, including a firearm, axe, flail and a stone. He was hanged November 6 of that same year.[5]

Massetti (age unknown, October 1913, Rome Italy): Returning home froma prison stint, Masetti was refused shelter and subsequently set fire to his family home, and killed six in the process. Not alot of info here, sadly.

Mrs. Glover (actual name not mentioned) (February-March 1898, Tribunna, New Zealand): murdered her six children and then tried to drown herself. [6], [7], [8]

and then this article (September 1930) concerning a man named Poikoner, a defence barracks worker in Finland who murdered his wife and five children, then jumped into a fire he'd set. Again, not alot to work from. [9]

I also wanted to show this list to you. Its a wiki list of American presidents[10] and its set up is basically the same set up as the table you've made. You'll notice the pictures located on the left side of the table. It would be quite the project to add perpetrator pictures to the table you made here, but it might be a project that could be something to consider somewhere down the road, if time, interest and obviously copyright-related shit permits. I've been gathering pictures for a proposed thing of my own and I've quite a few that weren't on SpankMe's site, such as DeWitt Henry, Juilan Carlton, Lynwood Drake, Rafael Torres, Lorne Acquin and James C. Dunham. So once again, good to be back!Longevitymonger (talk) 23:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

and also this little tidbit, which just occurred today in Washington state. [11]Longevitymonger (talk) 20:50, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. When Hasan went on his little "tantrum", I was one of the filthy few who suspected it might have been terrorist related. My initial thoughts (afer hearing Hasan's name) was that a group of militants had somehow infiltrated the American military and decided to start picking off soldiers at Ft. Hood. When I heared the initial report of possibly three shooters, my suspicions grew even more. Then it comes down to the fact that it was one man, one mission and so on. After that, well, you've obviously read the articles concerning his religious beliefs, trials and tribulations, so I'll leave it at that. It'll be interesting to see what Hasan himself has to say on the matter, if anything becomes public. I've read that he's paralyzed from the waist down, so that'll be more of our wonderful tax dollars at work, keeping him in a specially modified jail cell to cope with his new handicap.

Concerning the other stuff, it's interesting to see what other people remember about events such as these. One of my earliest is Dunblane, and actually have an article published in a local newspaper on the event amongst my gatherings on the present discussion. Virginia Tech is also a very vivid memory, and (somewhat ironically) I was at college that day, watching the events unfold in the student union. I also used to work with a lady who went to school with Tony Barbaro, the Olean sniper, and she told me quite a tale about the events of that particular day. She remembered coming back from a friends home that day (December 30th) and recalled hearing loud pops from the direction of the school. She and her friend were then grabbed by a few quick thinking pedestrians and they holed up in a local restaurant until Barbaro was taken down by police. She remembers Barbaro as a "squat, chubby kid with red hair and freckles." Quite a memory after nearly thirty-five years.

In regards to my personal listing of these people, its slightly different then the one here on the 'pedia. As of now, it stands at 569 individuals, from across the world, although quite a few are from the states. I make it a point to only add people who have killed three or more persons, so the ones that don't meet that tiny bit of criteria are left out in the cold:) Familicides with 5 or more are added, but those with four or less aren't. I also don't add people unless they have a full name available in the articles that I stumble across. Some of the 19th and early 20th mother familicides that elect not to give a first name to the perpetrator piss me off to such an extant I put them on a separate part of my work. As to how I sort them, I do it chronologically, and right now the number one slot is maintained by a certain Matthew Womble, who murdered his wife and four sons in July 1784. The latest (chronologically speaking) addition is Lee Zhong Ren, who went on a rampage on the Island of Saipan a few days ago.

While were on the topic of current events, I found something you might find interesting in this weeks TIME magazine. The main editorial entitled "The Decade From Hell" highlights "the first 10 years of this century will very likely go down as the most dispiriting and disillusioning decade Americans have lived through in the post–World War II era." Pretty depressing stuff to say the least. What I found most curious was a blurb on page two of the online article, that states:

"Of course, the decade's bad news hasn't been confined to the financial pages. Was there actually more bad news than usual? The answer is an objective yes. For example, there were more mass shootings and school shootings, such as the murder of 32 students at Virginia Tech in 2007 and the recent slaughter at Fort Hood, than in any other decade." Your thoughts?

[12] Longevitymonger (talk) 01:28, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hasan (from my viewpoint anyway) has pretty much cemented his name among the infamous characters who came (or in this case, murdered) before him. I have an inkling this case will be looked at and scrutinized for some time by crime analysts, media pundits and, people such as you and I. In regards to Dunblane, I mainly remember that one because we discussed that one in depth during school (1996, so was in the 4th grade at the time) and that also happens to be where I got the article mentioned in my last posting.

On the subject of Tony Barbaro (she remembers him as "Tony"), she had quite vivid recollections of him. She said he'd been on the schools shooting team, and also remembered him being well off academically. She also stated that he has family still in the Olean area, including a brother. His family's home was down the street from hers in Olean. My friend still remembers skinning her knee during the melee of getting somewhere safe, and ending up in a restaurant. She also is an acquaintance of Herbie Elmore, who was wounded by Barbaro during the shooting, and (from what she told me) still bares scars from that day. It really hits home when someone who witnessed/lived through something like this (like my friend) and actually is standing in front of you, its a very strange feeling.

My list, well, it probably should be trimmed a bit, but for now I'm pretty happy with where it stands. One of the reasons I do three kills and up is there are quite a few interesting cases within that 3-5 kill range, and there are always new ones popping up, like the one in Lakewood, Washington the other day. For example, William O. Bevins [13]an elderly Pennsylvania miner who in 1983 shot up an automotive store (killing 5) because someone wouldn't get off the telephone he wanted to use. Or Gan Fong Chin [14], a cook in a Chinese restaurant who in 1978 opened fire at his workplace, killing five. His reason? "Because they're trying to poison me." I don't choose cases that are more interesting than others, I just continue searching and if by the end of the night I've found a few cases where a man got pissed at his neighbors and gunned down 3 of them and if there's enough info to work from, I'll throw em' on. Once in awhile the cases are an interesting read (like the kid who killed three because of a yo-yo), and sometimes occasionally not. There aren't any restrictions on how the acts were committed, but the only arson related cases I recollect having on my list are Harold Bordner (whom I believe is listed here) and a few of those murdering mothers who killed two or three of their children, set the house afire and then perished in the flames with any of the remaining ones. Who knows, maybe more of the aforementioned cases will come to surface in the future.

That whole TIME article I mentioned got me wondering on a few points you mentioned in the last posting, such as "I also cannot confirm that there were more mass murders in the US than in any other decade." I decided to do more tabulating. What I found (with the aid of my list and this may be missing quite a few cases, by the way) surprised me. Beginning with Dhaneswar Ratia familicide in India on January 13, 2000 to the Maurice Clemmons shooting on November 29, 2009 there have been 115 cases of mass murder/spree killing/familicide throughout the world. Keep in mind the figure I gave leaves out cases with one or two dead, and familicides with four or less dead. I'll admit it isn't the most accurate way of going about finding an approximate number, but I found it interesting.

Another excellent point you made was that "The only thing that seems to be changing though, is that the death toll per shooting is rising. (Total number of victims on the other hand stayed pretty much the same)." 3 killing sprees (McLendon, Wong and Hasan) carried out in the U.S in one years time with 10 or more victims is a fairly significant statement, and that doen't even include the Winnenden or Azerbijiani Oil Academy shootings. I remember watching the coverage of the Virginia Tech massacre and the numbers started off fairly high (18 or 19 I think) and they kept rising. And rising! Then I distinctly remember seeing news anchor Brian Williams mutter "thirty-two" to Chris Matthews, and I about fudged my pants. My first thought was "well, finally somebody sicker than I am" and my second, "how the hell did he manage to pull this off???" It'll really be interesting to see if anyone ever overtakes Woo Bum-kon's total of 57. I honestly don't see that happening anytime soon, however, and if this ever does come to fruition, what country will have the "distinction" of being home to such a record?

And before I hit the old dusty trail in search of paths anew, here is one new person that might pass the smell test. William Bryan Cruse probably won't however, dead senior citizens don't exactly have that "Pinesol fresh" scent to them:)

George David Silva (27) (November 16, 1911, Alligator Creek, near Queensland, Australia): Murdered the six members of the Ching family and was hanged in 1912. http://wapedia.mobi/en/George_David_Silva Longevitymonger (talk) 03:03, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings. This occurred earlier today down in Appomattox, Virginia. The suspect, Christopher Speight killed eight and police currently have him encircled in a wooded area as of this writing. I believe this is the second multiple slaying of the year, as a family slaying of five happened a few days ago, to my recollection. I recently read an article on January 18, 2010 to be the most depressing day of the year (or Blue Monday as some call it) and it mentions it here [15]. I just found it funny that this would happen so soon after it. Maybe the fellow decided to sleep in yesterday:)

This article will fill you in more than I can[16] . And as for the absence, I've been overwhelmed with other projects/work/life, but if this is any indication of how the year may progress, it certainly will be interesting.Longevitymonger (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, its seems I've been asleep at the wheel in regards to some of the 2010 incidents you mentioned. I was aware of the Timothy Hendron incident via the news in my area, but it mentioned only two deaths, including the perpetrator. Because of this, I really wasn't paying attention to it very closely. If the others listed and the recent event down in Virginia are any indication of how 2010 will progress, it'll be interesting for sure.

Just today I found this via the Nytimes, a man in Brooklyn wigged out about something and ended up stabbing three people, all of whom died. And so it continues.....Longevitymonger (talk) 02:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[17][reply]

You may already of this, but I figured I'd post it anyway. 3 are dead and 3 wounded at the University of Alabama by a female suspect. It occurred during a biology faculty meeting, and the local media reported the shooter was possibly a faculty member, although that hasn't been ascertained yet. Includes a picture of the suspect be led away in cuffs, too.Longevitymonger (talk) 04:15, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ala_university_shooting

I actually brought this up back in April (see talk section) and no one responded; I'm not sure if this was listed in the 'Other' section as you correctly pointed out. I've moved it to the school massacres section; please let me know if you have an opposing viewpoint. --Williamsburgland (talk) 04:52, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Its been awhile since I've posted anything murder related, but I'll start by saying hello. I retired from wikipedia awhile ago but continue to check back every couple months or so to see any new additions you've made to the highly informative list here on the wikipedia. I noticed you've found one Heinrich Dorfmaler. I stumbled upon him in February of this year while trolling through a German based criminal research site called kriminalia.de, and it gave the date of the family slaying as February 3, 1880. The article itself is titled "Der Familienauslöscher Heinrich Dorfmaler (London, 1880)". Luckily for me I have a translation system here at home that can give me an English version (though the vernacular is a bit garbled, it'll do for now.) The aforementioned article is here: http://www.kriminalia.de/2010/12/der-familienausloscher-heinrich-dorfmaler-london-1880/

Also, there is this man (Arthur McElhill) from Omagh, Northern Ireland who set his home on fire in November 2007 killing his partner and her five children. The article also makes mention of his being a convicted rapist and sex offender. I'm fairly certain that I didn't see his name on the list here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8401337.stm http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/Article/20080641292930

Other than that, are there any other newly uncovered cases you've found that are of particular interest? Longevitymonger (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I've missed the various discussions that have taken place on here. I noticed awhile back that another user went on a hatchet job here removing people left and right. I thought about adding my two cents to the situation but in the end decided not to. From what I remember reading about that particular user, he had been banned more than once, so I was under the assumption that he was just trying to throw the proverbial "weight" around, for lack of a better term.

As far as finding any past cases, I have completely exhausted the Google news archives, so I really haven't come up with any intriguing new discoveries within that past year or so....with the exceptions of this guy (funny name too, Dong Gang) who killed six of his family members after being reprimanded for being drunk [[18]] and this woman from India (Saroj Bala) who fed six of her children pesticide in 2002 (article is halfway down the page) [[19]]

I also noticed that some of the persons listed here (Erwin Mikolajcyzk, James Pough, Leung Ying, Eric Borel) now have pictures to go along with their articles, which I found to be a pleasant surprise. If anymore of these individuals have articles put on wikipedia and you are in need of pictures, don't be afraid to ask...I have about 200 pictures of many of these people saved to a zip drive for my own list usage. Most are fairly obscure (Edwin J. Grace, Alvin Lee King, Brian Schlaepfer, Danilo Guades, Ricky Abeyta, Julian Carlton, Lynwood Drake and 1930s family murderer Charles Davis Lawson, to name but a few.) I understand copyright related shit should be taken into account, but most of these pictures came from scanned newspaper articles and now defunct websites. Come to think of it, I might start writing articles for some of these individuals myself, just to add pictures.

The Hebei Tractor rampage....I managed to collect a few newspaper articles on that from last year, and out of the four that I have in my possession, three of them put the final death toll at seventeen. As you mentioned, the courts in China work at lightning speed, and judging by how quickly they've executed some of the school murder perpetrators, Li Xianliang is probably long dead by now.

As for Mr. Oliveira, that was one case I felt really came out of left field. I expected to eventually hear about a U.S. school shooting this year, but Brazil? This is just conjecture on my part, but I think that Oliveira had many mixed feelings about his newly discovered (2 years before the shooting) Islamic faith, social isolation and the death of his mother; all of these added up to a lethal combination. As for Tristan Van der Vlis in the Netherlands......I suppose he could be considered a nutbag that just "had enough". I read that he had previous firearms offences and a suicide attempt, so that might lead to some conclusions down the road.

Which brings me to Jared Loughner.....only in America could four or five national news outlets label this guy as a "Manchurian candidate" like political assassin. Fox news prattled on about his "left wing philosophy and writings" and all that jazz.....there was no philosophy!!! Half the blather the guy posted on Youtube and the site that you mentioned would make anyones head ache in bewilderment. Loughner obviously had some mental aberation, and I think that was arguably the crux of the whole brouhaha surrounding him.

And so it goes...Longevitymonger (talk) 21:10, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some new finds since the last posting. September 1911: Not alot of info on this man, mentioned in the article as a Wessel, Germany laborer named Zautze who slit his wife and five children's throats before hanging himself. You seem to have a knack for finding out more info on some of those early German familicides, so you might be able to track down a first name.[[20]]

Louis Travis: October 1870: Mentioned in the article posted below as a "negro desperado who murdered a Dr. Butler, wife and child, a colored woman and two other persons". It mentions that these murders were committed a month previously than the published article. This man might not count as it gives no specific date for the slayings, as they may have been committed at different intervals, not just one or two days. [[21]]

Lawrence Leflay (January 1938): The article says he killed six family members over a fight involving a barn fire. Other articles on this man mention just five persons killed (evidently the brother Marvin survived the initial onslaught), but the one below states that Leflay killed six...and I can't find any conclusive evidence that the wounded brother actually died, so this man might not pass the "six" threshold.

Yue Lin (January 1935): found on Google books. Mr. Lin (because of economic hardships) persuaded his wife into committing suicide, along with their six children. All of them died, with the exception of Mr. Lin, who was arrested for the crime. [[22]]

Also, in regards to the various mass murderer pictures I mentioned in the last posting, I am extremely happy to report that I have found a few more that I was sure didn't have any available photographs. All of these people are on your list here, but I'm fairly certain you haven't seen a picture of them yet. Of course, I might be wrong on that last point. Sadly some of them are from the Google news archives, so I can't physically edit them and use them for my own list. Other than that, here they are in case you find any use for them.

Christian Dornier: Woop!!! I was fairly certain I'd never see a picture of this insane Frenchman. Despite the fact that he killed 14 people, finding a picture of him was like trying to track down the Ark of the Covenant. One has been found, although it is rather tiny. Apparently its from some French news rag similar to the National Enquirer. [[23]]. Beware, as the site it was found on is in Japanese. Through my translator, it gives an English version synopsis of his victims and his subsequent confinement to a mental hospital.

Emile Pierre Benoist: Pictures were hard to come by of this guy as well. Until now. Evidently its a high school photo of him taken in 1973. [[24]]

Lorne J. Acquin: Considering that this fellow committed the worst mass slaying in Connecticut state history, you'd think there'd be numerous photos of him floating around the net, right? Wrong. I managed to find this picture of him being led away in cuffs for his arraignment in 1977. [[25]]

Rafael Torres: The New Jersey grocer who murdered eight of his family in 1969 also had no picture to go with his name and crimes. Here is one that I found yesterday. [[26]]

Callie Delport: South African man who murdered nine in 1992. A picture has been found. I think Mr. Delport was going for the "Eraserhead" look (a la Jack Nance) in this picture! [[27]]

Tomislav Petrovic: Serbian man who shot up a village killing six relatives. [[28]]

and lastly (I had to do some real digging to find a photo for this guy), Clifford Cecil Bartholomew, the man who slew 10 family members in Hope Forest, Australia in 1971. He now has a face to place with his name. Found via a blog highlighting various Australian murders (I looked for Malcolm Baker and Frank Vitkovic, 2 other Aussie mass slayers, but no pictures of them could be found, sadly.) At least this one isn't protected by google like the newspaper photos above. [[29]]. Bartholomew's picture is about halfway down the page (His facial expression brings to mind a man that's just eaten a bowl of sour grapes!)

If you knew of these pictures before hand, my apologies for gumming up your talk page with the aforementioned diatribe. Anyway, at some point hopefully you might find some use for these...Longevitymonger (talk) 17:31, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. One thing that I find infinitely frustrating are some of the newspaper archives that we both peruse, and their attempts to get money from me for what amounts to but a few articles that I want to read. A case in point is this wonderful digitized archive for British newspapers [[30]], which would be even more wonderful if it was, you know, FREE!!! The articles (or rather, lack of them) posted below were found on this site and from the small blurb that I was able to read, it mentions a certain Antonio Torchia [[31]] and the murder of his family (a wife and five children from what I was able to ascertain, although I could be mistaken.) If the link doesn't work, type in the name Antonio Torchia and an article will come up mentioning a "wholesale murder in Italy." This site (if you know of it already) looks to be pretty useful, with the exception of not being able to browse anything. It also mentions a case of certain John Jones who murdered a family of seven in Uxbridge, England in 1870. I believe you might know of him already.

On the same newspaper site mentioned above, you can find a few articles on the mysterious Sophie Gauthier (Remember her? she was the French lady who killed six of her children by sticking pins in their heads!) Just type in her name in the search section and a few articles will pop up mentioning her case.

There are users on here (such as DreamGuy) that can be a bit bellicose when it comes to article formats, lists and suchlike. If you look back through my contributions, I first became a member here in April 2003, so I was able to kind of "pick and choose" what other wikipedians to chat with, and I really never engaged in a war of words with anyone on here, thankfully. One of the reasons I retired is that compared to the early days of being on here, there are far to many rules and guidelines that constrict the "fun" one can have by making an article and adding to it. But again, that's just my take on the situation.

As for the pictures, a thousand thanks for that print screen pointer you gave me. Now I can abscond with as many pictures as I want from the Google archives, and there's nothing they can do about it...HAHAHAHAH!!!! In the meantime, I was pleasantly surprised to find this [[32]] picture of one William Ray Bonner (who slew six in 1973) on Google books. I hadn't seen one of him before, and was also surprised to find out the guy was black...I had pictured him as a twentysomething white guy. In regards to your query on the machete wielding Danny Guades, the picture of him in question was found here [[33]], and why he decided to go about his business in a Bon Jovi t-shirt will forever be one of the great mysteries of our time.

Then there is Lynwood Crumpler Drake (whom you've listed here, and the more I read about this fellow, the stranger his story seems to get.) According to this article [[34]], Drake is mentioned as a hustler who caused a multitude of problems for a theatre owner in Virgina. It later makes mention of Drake's work as an actor, and provides a publicity shot that Drake used when trying to find roles.

Finally, here is a newly found picture of Verlin Spencer the California principal who killed five in 1940 [[35]]. He falls below the six victim threshold, but its interesting to note that he was released from jail around 1970, and according to the ssdi death index, died in San Diego in January 1991 at the ripe old age of 90. Longevitymonger (talk) 18:29, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. That particular British newspaper archive looks promising, I just wish you could have more of a blurb to read other than what they give you. It wasn't a total waste either, as it led to an intriguing discovery a few hours ago. Samuel Hill Derby (also called Samuel Derby) perpetrator of the Salford Tragedy in 1888. If you do a basic search on him in the archive, it brings up about 30 articles describing the Salford Tragedy. And on Google, numerous short blurbs on him are here [[36]].

After seeing such skimpy articles, I started to worry that more information might not be forthcoming. I was mistaken. Shown here [[37]] is a very informative piece from The Spectator, Volume 61. Furthermore, I was surprised to find a actual video on Derby's life and gravestone, made by an English historical society, which is here [[38]]. The narrator of said video mentions that Derby poisoned his wife and five children (but his gravestone and every other article I've seen mentions six children killed), so I chalked that up as a mistake on the narrators part. And finally, an English forum where further information on Derby was found [[39]]. I saw no mention of Mr. Derby on here, so I can safely assume you were not aware of him yet.

Other findings include this uninformative family slaying in Cairo [[40]], and this silly little article [[41]] about a North Carolina foreman who was attacked by a group of Italian and Hungarian workers, and ended up killing seven of them defending himself with a crowbar. I also found it funny that the phrase "mowed down" was actually used in a newspaper 104 years old.

Now, for more pictures. These were ones I've known about for a bit, and after checking some of your various source articles for the list here, you might not have any of these for your own personal "collection" of photographs. Most of these are family slayers.

1.Frederick Moses McCullum [[42]]

2.Robert Lee Haggart [[43]]

3.Leonard Hogue [[44]]

4.Cyril J. Rovansek [[45]]

5.King Edward Bell [[46]]

6.Dale Merle Nelson [[47]], I was aware of one picture of this guy, and it was completely unusable as it was taken from a great distance. This one is usable.

7. and a nice article on John Waszak, the guy that dynamited his house and family in Wisconsin. In this picture he seems to be giving us the "What? Who? Me?" look [[48]].

And now on to the list format itself. My first contributions to wikipedia was the development of the famous centenarian list circa 2003, 04 and 05. Eventually it grew to be so large, other editors and bigwigs took it over and condensed it down to this [[49]]. I have not contributed to that particular list in nearly three years, mainly because of personal bias on my part. I'm not exactly sure how to make and set up tables (such as the ones here) but I've grown kind of used to that particular format and as you mentioned, splitting a list that large will be an arduous task. Now for the family slaughter list, I could see that one being split into subsections by continent (U.S. family slaughters, U.K. family slaughters, Australian family slaughters, etc) and once thats done, just list the cases by either kill count or chronologically (or whatever preference suits you.)

And then there is this idea[[50]]...one that I've actually put into use, twice. Some years ago, I and a relative formed a Yahoo group dedicated to famous 100 year olds, as we had been pretty much uninvolved on the wiki list mentioned earlier. In a Yahoo group setting, we had total control over adding pictures/articles, various files, lists we added and revised, and best of all...who was allowed to join it. After the success of that one, I developed another one with a political twist to it [[51]].

With my various lists of the mass murdery types, various news articles and pictures, a Yahoo group based on research, listing and discussions on mass murders and spree killers is probably do-able. Plus, its free and you don't need a web host/site builder. I suppose its something to put on the backburner for now, as it would be a constantly evolving project. Something to consider though, if User:DreamGuy is any indication. That being said, and in regards to your Hinckley photos, here is a truly unusual photo you may or may not have seen of mass murderer John Linley Frazier [[52]]. If ever I was to write a book on these happenings, this would be one of the pictures I'd put on the cover. Longevitymonger (talk) 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in an addendum to the above entry about Samuel Hill Derby and the various photographs, here is a familicide that occurred in India about a week or two ago. Considering its from India, I didn't expect to see too many articles on the matter, but was pleasantly surprised to find three. [[53]] [[54]] [[55]] Longevitymonger (talk) 08:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just wondering because I haven't heard a response yet... and I trust you've read the spiel on Samuel Derby and my list suggestions, etc. Anyways here are two more articles /pictures that you might not have. The first is of Massachusetts family slayer Peter Akulonis [[56]] and the second is Michigan mass murderer Eric E. Pearson, who slew 7 in 1968. This obscure fellow had a few articles mentioning his crimes, but no pictures. I have found one. [[57]] (just click the original document button and it will bring up a newspaper article, which contains a picture of Pearson being led away in cuffs by a deputy.)Longevitymonger (talk) 20:57, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I was very happy to have discovered Mr. Derby, and was even happier to find that someone had actually taken the time to film his/his family's gravesite, and give some background on how he went about his "business". If only all of those 19th century cases had that kind of information!

Yes, I saw the list split and keeping the abbreviations seems a perfect fit to me. Most learned individuals, in my opinion, will be able to ascertain what each abbreviation stands for (i.e. TX, NY, OH, ID)....pretty self explanatory. Another thing you might want to take into consideration is some of the table ordering, which seems strange at times. A case in point is in the U.S. familicides, obviously ordered by body count. What I found weird is that Frank Lee Lias (who killed 7 in 1974) is listed before Moritz Kaiser (who killed 7 in 1878.) This occurs at other places on the list, such as Danny Eugene Crump down to King Edward Bell (family of six slayers) being listed before William Beadle (who killed six in 1782, and everyone after him is in chronological order.) Hopefully you can figure out what I meant.

One of the things I've been tinkering with for my own list is finding birth and death dates for some of these people that didn't commit suicide after their rampages. The SSDI has been a blessing in that regard. I mentioned the newly discovered pictures of John Waszak and Eric E. Pearson in one of my last postings, and I was able to find both of them listed in the SSDI index. Eric E. Pearson (age 56 at the time of the slayings in 1968 in Michigan) was listed in the SSDI as being born in 1911 and dying in January of 1997 at age 85. Waszak (listed as being 54 at the time of the April 1937 slayings) was found in the SSDI as being born in May of 1882 and dying in March 1968 in Wisconsin. Just some interesting tidbits I'd thought I'd share. As for the Yahoo group, it was an idea, and the two that I helped create were set up to be "registered user only." As far as I know, that particular feature can be edited as per whoever is moderating. Just thought I'd throw that out there....

Pictures! Yay! Very nice to now have a picture of Eugene Everette, Leibacher and John Felton Parish (yet another man that I figured was white.) I had a picture of Leibacher that I had saved from the SpankMe's mass murder site, but lost it last year when my computer went down. Now I have another one. You also mentioned in an earlier posting Google deleting things... yes this frustrates me too. I had a nice article on DeWitt Charles Henry with a photo of him (heavily bandaged) being led out of a courthouse in cuffs saved in my favorites folder, and.....POOF! like Keyser Soze, he was gone, or rather, became a dead link. Needless to say, I've yet to find another one.

While were on this subject, have you found any pictures of Mark Chahal, Daniel Patrick Lynam or Clarence Bertucci? I've searched high and low for pictures of them, but came up empty on all fronts. I also have been trying to find photos for some of the non U.S. mass murders, such as Wilhelm Bruckner, Fritz Angerstein and that crazy Swiss doorbell ringer Erminio Criscione. I also met with the same results.

In the meantime, Google archives has proven to be a boon to me once again, as it has provided me with a wealth of new photos that I will now share with you. I already mentioned those of John Waszak, Eric Pearson, Peter Akulonis, so now onto some new ones that you might not have seen.

On the mass and spree murderer front, we now have a picture of Stephanus Swart and his big fat wife here..[[58]], as well as Louis D. Hastings, whose story and crimes have to be one of the strangest on record [[59]].

On the family slaying side of things, we now have pictures of the following... 1. Lloyd Russell, who killed 8 family members in 1925. [[60]]

2. William G. Gravlin, who killed 7 family members in Michigan in 1964. [[61]]

3. Esker Washington Gibson, who killed 6 family members in 1941. [[62]]

4. Celestino P. Gonzales, who killed 8 family members in Indiana in 1936. [[63]]

5. William Dilworth Bauer, who killed 6 family members in 1956 in New Jersey (picture on page A-8 of paper). [[64]]

6. James Eugene Schnick, who killed 7 family members (and then blamed it on his nephew.) [[65]]

7. Elsie Nollen, who killed her 6 children in 1937 by gas. [[66]]

and finally, this new discovery: Li Hsing-ju, a Taiwan police officer who killed 10 in 1959. I didn't see his name listed here, so I'm fairly certain he's a "new" name. [[67]] Longevitymonger (talk) 23:27, 30 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Susan Cheever! I hope you've read some of her works, and yes that was merely an attempt to sound halfway intelligent in another language while essentially falling flat on my face at the same time. That's one of my favorite quotes ever by any author (I was originally going to write a lyric from Crucifiction Lane by Procol Harum "Tell the truth you never knew me, and in truth its just as well".) Swedish, on the other hand is more of a strong suit for me, as I am of Swedish descent and grew up with speakers of said language in "min familj." Sad part of that is, I've yet to stumble across an article in Swedish (other than the Flink and Tore Hedin cases) dealing with copious amounts of death. As for the new section header, its the title of a Queen song in Swedish....I'll let you figure out which.

And now on to more pressing matters...the possible ordering by continent. I think Africa and the Middle Eastern/Arab countries should essentially be lumped together, if, as you said, there are only 50 or so African cases to work from. For Europe, Greenland shouldn't be too much of a problem, as (if memory serves me correctly) there's only 1 person listed from Greenland. For Oceania, which would obviously include the big three (Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania) but would you also lump in New Guinea, Samoa and all of those little island nations that everyone forgets about? And finally...the killings that occurred on board ships; wouldn't it be prudent to list them as per the country of the ship's origin or disembarkation point? Many things to consider.

As for list order, if I had looked more closely at the numbers of wounded I probably would have figured that out, but in any case, thanks for the clarification on that one (btw, speaking of Frankie Lee Lias, I found out he's still with us and still incarcerated after nearly 40 years [[68]].

And the pictures I asked about.....Mark Chahal seems to be a phantom in terms of finding any visual proof of his existence...all of the Google news stuff on him is pay-per-view articles, and even an image search turned up nothing. You'd think that the man who committed one of the most heinous atrocities in Canadian history would have at least some small photo on the web, but alas. Daniel Lynam is another that has ample articles on the slaughter of his family, but no pictures of him to go along with them. Criscione is one that I remembered from the SpankMe's site mainly because of his truly novel way of killing people, but also because he didn't have a picture (come to think of it, Chahal was on there too...and I don't remember seeing a picture there either.)

David Burke (who looks like he could be a stunt double on Sanford and Son!) now has a picture.....I had totally forgotten about him. The Jose Marimon picture and articles had to be quite a find, considering the obscurity of the man and plus the date of the crimes (eighty plus years ago.)

Before I get to pictures, here are some new cases found within the last few days:

1931: A Corporal Seenda (no first name given) shot and killed six of his fellow soldiers in Perpignan, France. [[69]]

April 27, 1966, NYC: Jose Antonio Suarez, a laundry worker murdered his wife and five children with a knife (includes a crazed looking picture),[[70]] and more info here, [[71]].

and one from Australia...and this one has proven to be fickle in terms of finding more about the aftermath of the police investigation. From what I've gathered (plus a note was left in the home), it smells like a murder-suicide to me. The father's name is Herbert George Darnley [[72]] and here[[73]].

and this one, a possible case of vehicular manslaughter committed by one Arthur Sherod in 1965 [[74]] and here [[75]].

Pictures! I was very happy to have discovered some of these, as most of them are quite early. You may or may not have any of these, if you do, you now have more....

Edwin B. Stephens, murdered six of his family in 1905 (his picture is on Page 4 of paper): [[76]]

James C. Dunham (the man that got away with it!): [[77]]

a positively beaming George Jefferson Hassell [[78]]

1920s California spree killer John M. Goins [[79]]

Lillie Mae Curtis, who shot her six children in 1937 [[80]]

Tony De Capua, killed eight family members in 1927 (crappy picture) [[81]]

and the true definition of a poker face....Sherman Kline, who killed six in 1968. [[82]] Longevitymonger (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic discovery on that hilarious article. I'll see what I can do about Mr.Veski and Nehrman and the lack of information on them.

In reference to the last findings....yes, Jose Suarez is the epitome of a lucky bastard. I seem to remember finding another article that said that he made his way back to Puerto Rico, and seeing that he was only twenty-something at the time of the slayings, in all likelihood he's still alive (probably still laughing about the loopholes of the American judicial system.) In regards to the interesting portrait of one George Jefferson Hassell...evidently he was really proud of the fact that he killed two separate families on two nonconsecutive occasions (I nearly jumped a foot in the air when I first found that photo, mainly because he was grinning like he'd just won the lottery.)

In continuing with new cases that might be hard to follow, here is the case of one Lee Hanks, who was charged in the fire deaths of seven people (including his pregnant wife) [[83]]. There are numerous Google news articles on him and even a picture here [[84]]. Most of the articles mention that he was charged with seven counts of murder, but it doesn't say if he was convicted or not. Even though, according to this clipping, he admitted setting the blaze....[[85]].

And then there is this fellow, with only one article to his name....[[86]].

In a cheap plug, you can read that same article here at [[87]] a blog written and developed by some guy that you might be familiar with (even though the user name is different.) The blog address is nutteralert.blogspot.com and the header title is "The Rogues Gallery", and I put this together fairly quickly. Overall, I think its turned out quite nicely for the most part. It's basically an excuse to write, post and discuss the people that you and I discuss here, albeit in a blog format. If you decide to take a peak, I suggest reading the introduction first (a brief synopsis of the contents and what they'll constitute), which is located at the bottom of the page. Just so you are aware, you are more than welcome to help in your down time from the expansive list here. You have carte-blanche, as it were, to contribute in any manner that you see fit to (if you decide to do so.)

I will still be bringing articles and pictures to your attention, such as these new pictures of family slayers Frank Harris [[88]] a lousy one of John Gilbert Freeman (do you know of any others?) [[89]] and James Alan Day [[90]].

And thanks for that picture and article on French madman Paul Ughetto and Gunter Hermann Ewen. Both of these characters will hopefully be profiled on the "nutter alert" blog at some point and I appreciate finding out more on some of those infinitely obscure foreign mass murders (such as Ughetto and Jose Marimon.) I also see that you've uploaded a picture of one Clarence Bertucci, who I thought would never have a face to place with the name. Lastly, have you found pictures of any of the following people. Melvin Collins (who killed 8 in Chester, PA in 1948 and from what I gathered, is black....if that helps), Netherlands slayer Cevdet Yilmaz (he was on the SpankMe site along with Collins and neither had pictures) and killer Filipino policeman Jonathan Moreno (I remember when this case occurred in 2005, and it was even on Yahoo news for chrissakes, but no picture...) And I believe that is all..Longevitymonger (talk) 04:52, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Been busy with nutteralert.blogspot.com lately, and I stumbled across a few new persons not yet listed on here. One of whom has an article written for him already: John Wychopen, who killed his wife and five children on April 28, 1916 in Texas [[91]] and here (towards bottom of page) [[92]].

And then there is this man (who I'm currently in the process of writing a posting for.) I am extremely surprised neither one of us have heard of him before, considering the victim count the guy managed to rack up. He also has a number of articles detailing the extent of his crime. William Edward Coleman, who on Feb. 16, 1968, barged into a tavern in Moberly, Missouri and quickly sloshed a bucket of gasoline around the place. He then threw a match into the place and took off. In the insueing chaos, 12 people died in the flames. From the extent of the articles on him, he confessed to police his crime and was eventually sentenced to death in 1969. Deseret News [[93]], Calgary News [[94]], Windsor Star (with a picture of Coleman), [[95]], and then this article from Missouri [[96]] (to look through this one, do a search on William Coleman and it should bring up 17 hits. Scroll to bottom and look for article entitled "You Might Die of Old Age First", and it mentions William Coleman being sentenced to death.)

Then there is this article about an unknown servant in Bucharest who killed his employer, wife and their 5 children (June 28, 1886) [[97]].

And a none to promising article on "negro desperado" Elijah Morton, who killed a number of people in Helena, Georgia in 1897 [[98]].

As for pictures, Boston family slayer George T. O'Leary [[99]], Canadian parliamentarian and family slayer John E. Clark [[100]], Walter Chesley Davis, who killed six in 1907 (I believe you have him listed as Walter Charley Davis) [[101]], and two pictures of Alfred Baumberger (or Bomberger) who killed six of the Kreider family in 1893 [[102]], [[103]].

I'm also guesstimating that you are busily at work reforming and retooling the list. Longevitymonger (talk) 16:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. About the blog......its nothing special but seeing that there are a lack of "sites" dealing with this subject matter that aren't as I put in the introduction to it, distasteful, it kind of aims to fill the void. Compared to train wrecks such as this site here [[104]], I think it has turned out rather well. While most of the stuff on that particular site is quite humorous to read, the proprietor's grammar and goofy comments leave a lot to be desired.

As for the blog introduction, it shouldn't be taken too seriously. While you and I can have a big laugh over somebody's body count or a father throwing some of his family over a cliff, some reader might get p'od that someone is making light of a mass murder that occurred in their particular town. Considering that the blog has had over 170 some views thus far, I'm surprised I haven't received a comment similar to the one I just mentioned. Its obvious that people are reading it, as I've checked the audience rating and have seen that people from Sweden, Indonesia Paraguay and Singapore are listed by pageview. That has to count for something, right?

In regards to William Coleman....you'll probably be seeing a lot of people going on to "nutter alert" that aren't on your list here, either because of low victim count or because of monetary gain. Its indisputable that Coleman wandered into a bar, threw gas around and was ultimately responsible for the deaths of 12 people, hence why he has an article on him. There are a few others that will be profiled eventually, such as Robert McField (we discussed him awhile back) and this new guy, James "Bud" Stone. As you can read here [[105]] it looks like a robbery gone wrong. Seeing that Stone was the one executed for the six murders and nothing was ever done to his alleged conspirators, he might be profiled at some point. I haven't quite decided yet.

As for Earnest Lawrence, I remember seeing this [[106]] article on him in the New York Times about a year ago. Since it was pure conjecture on the police's part that Lawrence offed everyone, I left him off my list. I've read the articles you've posted and I'm still unsure. The articles state that a few firearms and an ax were found in the home with spent cartridges, but only fragments of the bodies were found. Now, if a non-incinerated body was found with a gun in its hand or an ax in its possession, I'd be off the fence for sure. What if one of the Drew brothers mentioned in those articles wigged out about something and killed everyone, saturated the place in oil, lit a match and then offed themselves? There weren't any survivors, so that makes things even more difficult; even the illness Lawrence is alleged to have suffered isn't elaborated on. On the same token, I remember bringing this case to your attention [[107]] that I found equally stymieing. According to this article, four witnesses even saw Peel rowing away from the burning ship. Eventually a few trials later, he was acquitted and walked away a free man. I remember our discussion on him, and he was never listed as he was acquitted. But, it begs the question.....who killed the eight people on the boat and set it afire? Peel certainly seemed guilty from the articles I've read on him, but as far as the courts are concerned, he isn't. Getting back to Ernie Lawrence, I suppose as far as history is concerned, it will remain a mystery, and seeing that the bodies were virtually ashes, modern forensic testing probably wouldn't help matters any.

As for your wondering about how you could contribute to the blog, you already have. With your findings on Biswas (no wonder I couldn't find anything on the sonovabitch, the article I posted had his name screwed up!), I can place a small addendum to the posted article stating your findings....the same goes for the Wychopen article from a few weeks ago. Hopefully with some of those other obscure old familicides, other people/readers/historians might come out of the woodwork and comment on facts that they might know that I don't. One of the obscure cases I look forward to writing about is Gilbert Twigg, who I found to be a very interesting read when I saw him on here. I might even e-mail the Kansas Historical Society or state archives to see if they have any pictures/articles on the man and his crime, as there isn't a alot to work from, other than the articles you have in the references section.

As for pictures, "eye thank you" an thousand times for Cevdet Yilmaz, who now (after nearly six years of searching) has two pictures! I was wondering what James Ruppert looked like, seeing that he's almost 80 years old. Most of the pictures I have on him were from 1975, obviously, so its nice to compare how prison can age a person. The Harvey McLoed picture I also found a while back, and is another shining example of a person with a white sounding name that isn't! Kathryn Shoch....we must have stumbled upon this one about the same time, because I just found this picture about four or five days ago. Now, I have always found her case fascinating because part of her rampage occurred twenty or so miles from where I reside (she killed her sister in Dunkirk, NY.) Believe it or not, Schoch herself is buried near St. Mary's Church in Dunkirk. I was extremely happy to have found that picture on google news, as our local paper archives had nothing on the case (i.e. the archive didn't extend that far back.)

On my end, these pictures were recently found: Howie Franklin Stewart, who killed six in 1987 [[108]], Eliseo Hernandez Moreno, who killed six in his rampage in 1983, [[109]], Arthur James Davis, who shot and killed six in 1966 [[110]], family slayer Ronald Quitman Ellis [[111]] and finally, you might remember me bitching awhile back about a picture of DeWitt Henry that I found on google news archives that (I thought) had disappeared. The good news is, it has been found here [[112]]. And so you can compare pictures, here is an old, fat picture of him taken not long ago, courtesy of the Oregon Department of Corrections. If the link doesn't do anything, type DeWitt Henry in the box and hopefully something should come up [[113]].

And now, a small request. I have two pictures of Emile Benoist, one of which is here [[114]]. Both are what I consider crappy pictures and I was wondering if you've stumbled on any better quality photos of him. Also, have you found any photographs of Nepalese slayer Basudev Thapa? Unlike his fellow compatriot Dependra of Nepal, no pictures of him could be found. And.....I think thats it. Longevitymonger (talk) 20:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Warby is back with his hammer and knife and he woke up angry today!!!!! Well, maybe not....who knows where that guy ended up, but I was looking over the "Wacky World" again after seeing your newest message and re-read the Ian Warby article on their and got quite a chuckle out of it, yet again. In terms of being overly consumed with copious amounts of information, I have started another blog which you've probably seen already. It takes the place of the Yahoo group that started dying a slow painful death soon after its formation last year. Maybe this version of it will turn out better. While on that note, you might find the following site of interest, www.archive.com. Most of the pictures and crap for the second blog come from this site, which is similar to Google books (it's basically an online library.) I do remember finding a Pennsylvania history book on there that mentioned the Samuel Mohawk case, but you may be able to cull more information from said website for some of the more obscure cases listed here.

And nice work on the...work! This obviously took a lot of time to put into place and IMOH is superior to the old "lengthier" version. On top of that, if anyone new to the list here is curious about where and when a particular incident of mass murder occurred, it'd be fairly easy to find amongst all of these names. Bravo! I also was wondering what the "fine tuning" you mentioned could be, as it looks perfectly fine to me.....

That being said, the WWOM site is good for a laugh, but for me, the ne plus ultra of mass murder research sites was "SpankMe's" massmurder.zyns.com, and I was crestfallen when I found that it was no longer accessible online. From the amount of times I browsed that site, it was obvious that quite a bit of work went into building it. In 2004 I managed to talk (online) with the proprietor of that site,and made mention of the John List case to him. I was pleased that he added him soon after my message. I also made him aware of the 1976 George Geschwendt case, and he ended up adding him to the site as well. I also managed to pilfer many pictures from that site while it was still up and running.

Pictures.....I haven't really come across any new cases or good pictures, but there are these guys who I didn't have pictures of before... Clifton Levoid McCree (killed five) [[115]], killer firefighter Kenneth Tornes (killed five) [[116]] and a new picture of one Carl Robert Brown (different from the one you added to his wiki article) [[117]].

Lastly, that article on Verlin Spencer was discovered here on Ebay [[118]] (and its a steal for only $19.00.) For the "nutteralert" blog I made it as big as I could possibly get it, but it still isn't totally readable.Longevitymonger (talk) 03:59, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the current Norway tragedy, which, according to this article from the Norwegian paper Verdens Gang, looks to be the worst act of mass murder in history. [[119]]Longevitymonger (talk) 03:01, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can honestly say this one really came out of left field. When I first heard about this I chocked it up to being terrorist related (a foreign group, not a local nut.) In all the years I've been cataloging and researching this stuff I never thought I'd be reading news reports of a spree killing that claimed 80+ lives. You're exactly right in this being a truly remarkable way of going about a rampage killing, and I still find it astounding that more victims were claimed in the shooting rampage on Utoya than the bomb explosion in Oslo. Go figure.

You're not alone in drawing parallels between the Utoya shooting and the Port Arthur rampage. The 600 or so persons on that tiny island really had no place to run to as a gunman roamed the island. I'm also beginning to wonder if most of these deaths were the result of drowning (persons jumping into the water to escape the carnage) rather than being struck by gunfire. Hell, Breivik even resembles Martin Bryant in some of the photos I've seen on the web.

I also am amazed that one man (it certainly looks to be the work of one guy) managed to pull something like this off. I'm wondering if it will be released by the authorities how long Breivik formulated his plan. It certainly didn't happen overnight. Longevitymonger (talk) 16:23, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the late response, but yes, you could move him to the hate crimes section on your list here as it would seem more appropriate considering all of the recent news regarding his internet postings/manifesto, etc. Even though it still technically is a spree killing (as it occurred in two separate areas) it seems the best route to go.

The death toll has been lowered (if you can call it that) to 76, but I believe that there are still people missing on the island and in Oslo, so that figure might change again. I was starting to get quite flummoxed as to why no news outlets were referring to this as the worst shooting rampage carried out by a single individual, but I did manage to find this news tidbit [[120]] from the Verdens Gang newspaper mentioning him in the same breath as Woo Bum Kon and the Virginia Tech massacre (its in Norweigian, but I was able to use my Google translator to get the gist of the article.) It even mentions Wikipedia in there, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone caught a gander at your list here in regards to Breivik's new found infamy.

In regards to your last post, I did read Breivik's self interview on the TIME magazine site and it only adds to the bizarreness of it all. The manifesto he worked on for nearly a decade took liberty in pilfering some of Ted Kaczynski's writings from the "Unibomber manifesto" so in actuality Breivik wasn't even original enough to put his own ideas to paper (or in this case, post online.)

Evidently he has claimed he had some sort of "cell" helping him out, and I wanted to get your take on that. It probably wouldn't effect his status on the list here, as he obviously carried out the massacre on Utoya alone, so do you think its him pulling the wool over the authorities eyes or is their more to it?

BTW, there was this shooting in Grand Prairie, Texas that occurred the same day [[121]]. Five victims, so it won't count for here, but I'd thought I'd pass it along.....Longevitymonger (talk) 02:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy. Evidently this just came across the wire and it isn't mentioned on your list here yet, so I'm guesstimating that you are unaware of it. Seven were shot and killed in a family spat at two different locations in Copley, Ohio today. The gunman was subsequently killed by police. [[122]], [[123]]. Longevitymonger (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what type of restructuring is happening to the article on serial killers by number of victims but I worked on that list for about a year now. While I am not opposed to splitting that list up to avoid an overly long or large article I do, however, believe that there was a lot of worthwhile information that was lost by rolling back edits all the way back to 2009. That list is particularly hard to quantify due to the nature of serial killers and the investigations that surround them making it highly difficult to maintain just one list. Before I split the "unofficial list", the only one that remains on the article, there was a secondary list based solely on official reports from police or government sources. This allowed for the "unofficial list" to exist because while it was based on more plausible data it was not capable of being 100% certain and therefore highly reliant on current information and credible sources outside of police investigation. Serial killers are a phenomena that primarily relates to the subjects of psychology and criminology but of those two serial killers are usually thought of in terms of the crimes (he or she) commits, not why serial killers commit them. The prosecution of their acts and why their acts relate to criminal justice systems in turn makes their actions the focus of law enforcement. All of the lists, both current and former, included serial killers, spree killers, etc from all around the world. When you put these two things together you have a high occurrence of varying quality depending on the country and its police force in terms of their investigations. Those lists also include murderers from 200+ years ago making it incredibly difficult to verify any authenticity, yet, are still just as deserving of mention. The "official" list is just as deserving of mention because while it is from a police perspective it still holds undeniable credibility and is valuable when looking at the big picture. That's the problem. The big picture is difficult to present without a multitude of sources and by simplifying the information available, unfortunately, you run across that very problem.

To put it lightly,

That article is a clusterfuck.

Whatever it is you plan to do with that article I hope you manage to keep all three lists that existed prior to your un-merging and includes the up to date information. I know I have put in a lot of work on that article and I wouldn't want to see it go to waste. I hope you can find a way to fix this article because I think it's a really interesting list of importance. I wish you the best of luck and hopefully I have been more helpful to your efforts to unfuck the article rather than hinder it. - Rox Da Box (talk) 00:22, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was a lot happier when I looked over the article in more depth. When I first looked at it all I saw was drastic change and didn't really stop to look over the finer points. Lol sorry. In any case I did a decent amount of work on it today and I hope that you agree so whenever you get the chance give me some feedback. - Rox Da Box (talk) 00:40, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I like what you are doing. You can see my message I left there on the talk page. DoctorHver (talk) 22:52, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Compared to the legions of people who focus solely on serial killers, it's almost impossible to find anyone who's interested in mass murderers, so I thought that I might as well introduce myself. I've been researching this topic since 2006 and I started compiling a formal list at the beginning of 2010. We basically use the same criteria, but the main difference is that I leniently define "mass murders" as involving a minimum of four casualties, whether through deaths or injuries.

Even if I could hope to be as thorough as you are, my list isn't meant to be a comprehensive chronicle as much as it's meant to help with answering statistical questions— albeit rather poorly since it really should be twice its current size. But if it weren't for you, "twice" would be closer to "thrice". I wouldn't be surprised if you were responsible for 1/4 of my list, let alone the boundless complementary information you've provided on the other mass murderers. You've been incredibly helpful here.

I haven't had the motivation to do much with my list since its first few months, and it's currently in a mid-revision state, so the whole thing really isn't much of anything to be excited about; but if you want to see it, here it is in all its mediocrity:

https://rapidshare.com/files/3614306925/mmlist03.xls

KnaveSmig (talk) 00:20, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, ignore the negligent formatting error which placed Anders Breivik below William Unek. What an appropriate testament to my incompetency.

By the way, I don't know if you have any interest in this sort of thing, but I recently compiled a pretty thorough list of (primarily YouTube) links to songs about school shootings. If you want just the list, you can download it here:

https://rapidshare.com/files/758489294/SSSmigglist01.rtf

If you don't mind downloading for half of a day, I took practically all of the songs (16 hours), cleaned them up as well as I could, and put them into a convenient package here. I recommend starting with the "Albums" file.

https://rapidshare.com/files/1666173391/SSS-migpack01.zip

https://rapidshare.com/files/344618540/SSS-migpack01.z01

https://rapidshare.com/files/1409238364/SSS-migpack01.z02

https://rapidshare.com/files/649635233/SSS-migpack01.z03

If my mass murderer list is useless to you, at least you might be able to enjoy some relevant songs!~

KnaveSmig (talk) 00:45, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hey KnaveSmig, I hope you are still alive. Sorry for not answering, but until now I really couldn't be bothered to do so. Bad me, I know. I also didn't save your list, and it ain't available on rapidshare anymore, so if you should ever read this would you upload it again and leave me a note here? Thankee. (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:35, 7 April 2013 (UTC))[reply]

KnaveSmig is Adam Lanza. Blysbane (talk) 19:37, 16 November 2017 (UTC) - Blysbane[reply]

Thanks for undoing the mess I made here. My editor really made a mess of things. --Doradus (talk) 15:25, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The sorting thing is a tad weak. Apparently it looks at the text of the first item in that column and decides what kind of data it is from that. I don't know of any way to override it. (I didn't get an answer to this.) I still think we shouldn't have the "center" template in every entry though. That belongs in style information, not in the table data. --Doradus (talk) 20:50, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I also tried adding style in the header. No dice -- we may need the help of a CSS expert. In my opinion, it would be better not to center the column at all than to add the center template to every entry, but I concede that's just one opinion. BTW, would you object if I copied this whole conversation to the article's talk page? --Doradus (talk) 13:59, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted. Hoaxes are often hard to spot and long-lived because, lacking reality, nobody searches for the content. But this case was spotted early, and it was questioned on the talk after being recreated. Like the rest of Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia it acts as a reminder of our weaknesses. Fences&Windows 23:23, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You should probably remove that retired notice from your user page given that you just created a new article :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi; thanks for all your work on those list articles.. I thought you might revert me; perhaps a compromise, such as "Weap." would work? The column, as it currently is, has an abbreviation as a heading and it's contents. Given the relative importance given to the weapons in the sources (basically all sources discussing these incidents state the weapons use), I think this column is worthy of more than single character entries.. what do you think? Thanks, Mlm42 (talk) 21:55, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Lord Gøn. You have new messages at Lonelydarksky's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, I added content to the article you started on Tyrone Mitchell. I noticed that you had already uploaded a photo of the perpetrator and that there was a photograph of one of the victims from the same source. I was wondering if you could upload the photo of the victim so that it can be added to the article? It would be greatly appreciated.Hoops gza (talk) 03:41, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• OK, thanks for letting me know about that.Hoops gza (talk) 19:41, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am a bit curious as to why the criteria for the list does not include all mass murder?Hoops gza (talk) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• I see your points. I see that you have done a fantastic amount of work on these lists. Have you considered compiling similar lists for serial killers, or do you have no interest in that? Of course there is the List of serial killers by number of victims and List of serial killers by country, but these don't seem as well organized as your spree lists.Hoops gza (talk) 19:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Appreciated if you could add which data sources this uses, so it can be compared with others. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 08:38, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have nominated all of the lists of "rampage killers" for deletion. You may wish to comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rampage killers. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:49, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

thanks --Frze ^{> talk} 08:54, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thank you for your well constructed opinions and brave responses (on Talk pages)! Zaelot (talk) 21:46, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, would you consider Michael Silka to be a spree killer or a mass murderer? I would like to define him in the lede as best as I can. Regards.Hoops gza (talk) 01:57, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, introducing inappropriate pages, such as Zhaodong shooting, is not in accordance with our policies. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. The page has been nominated for deletion, in accordance with Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion.

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Why does the citation for the zhaodong shooting in the list of rampage killers lead to a porn site? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elhiggins (talk • contribs) 13:32, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why it redirects to a porn site now, but it certainly didn't when I added it to the refs. Anyway, here's an archived version of the page, and if you search for the perpetrators' Chinese names you should come up with a number of websites that give you a brief description of the incident. So, instead of deleting an easily verifyable case, you could add a source yourself. And btw, you may want to reconsider your deletion of Mutsuo Toi. (Lord Gøn (talk) 16:14, 28 September 2016 (UTC))[reply]

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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kawit shooting is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 11:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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An article you recently created, List of dwarfs in Norse mythology, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. buidhe 03:38, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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I nominated three perpetrator images, uploaded by you, for discussion at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2021 April 13. George Ho (talk) 07:20, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More perpetrators images uploaded by you are listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2021 April 28. --George Ho (talk) 01:07, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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The article Kampala wedding massacre has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.

List of jötnar in Norse mythology

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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of rampage killers (familicides in the United States) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rampage killers (familicides in the United States) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

JMWt (talk) 11:03, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

if you were worried about the closure of the wikia which mirrored and extended most of what you worked on here (assuming that was done at fandom's behest and not yours), i did save a relatively recent and complete copy of it and am planning to put it up on its own site (though it may take me a week or two). if you would like to become an administrator on the new one i will oblige, though given your recent history i assume you have fallen out of interest in this topic, which i completely understand. just wanted to reassure you that several years of work did not evaporate into nothing.

anyway this is simply an account to send you this message (as you did not have email turned on) so i will likely not respond again.

wish you the best friend, whatever your interests are nowadays! JumpingForSummerMoments (talk) 23:57, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know it was deleted. For what reason? Because I didn't log into the account for over six months? Lord Gøn (talk) 18:39, 11 January 2024 (UTC)][reply]

wikia doesn't like that kind of content, they delete pretty much whatever they don't like. JumpingForSummerMoments (talk) 20:37, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The wiki has been online for over 10 years and now they suddenly notice? (Lord Gøn (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

fandom, as a company, generally, is bad, so yeah i guess they just noticed now. theyre very top down control-wise and tend to modify wikis without the consent of the users, and instill their community rules on all wikis (all aups are designed so tech companies can delete whatever they don't like)

but would you be bothered by me making another site? and would you want admin permissions on it if so? JumpingForSummerMoments (talk) 21:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, I won't be bothered at all. Go ahead and do as you please. However, I should notify you that I have filed a request to reopen the wiki, so maybe you should wait a couple of days to see if they take their decision back. I have no hopes, but I felt obliged to try anyway.

Concerning me becoming an admin, I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I have so many other things to do that I probably wouldn't find much time to contribute anything. As of now, the answer is probably no, but I'd like to reserve the right to change my mind some day in the future. (Lord Gøn (talk) 22:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

yeah, no worries mate, whether you do or don't feel free. even if you decide way later, absolutely no rush (and you wouldn't be obligated to contribute anything, i just see it in some form as 'yours' to a degree so I felt you deserved the option should you wish to take it. i understand you might not have the time. and as I said it's going to take me a few weeks (not due to technical reasons, i have it set up, just personal circumstances make the set up delayed for a bit) so if in those unlikely circumstances they go back on it, we will see JumpingForSummerMoments (talk) 23:03, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How's your website coming along? Lord Amok (talk) 21:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was wondering what happened to the wiki, so I came here. If you can't get the wiki reopened, are you going to create a new one? I'm not surprised Fandom closed the wiki because they're an awful company to begin with. Lord Amok (talk) 21:29, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Their response was, quote: "The wiki was closed as it is about a topic we do not generally wish to cover on Fandom, and there were occurences of it being used to glorify the actions it covered. Sorry, it will not be reopened." (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:49, 22 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

What a lazily contrived response. If they really didn't want the topic on there, why did they allow it on their website for ten years? There has never been any glorification on the wiki, so I don't know what "occurrences" they're referring to. Lord Amok (talk) 02:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know either, though I have been neglecting my duties on there for half a year, so I can't be sure what went on in the time of my absence. I suppose either someone has filed a complaint about it, or it has something to do with the fact that a number of alphabet people have committed mass shootings in the last couple of months and they don't want that to be covered for ideological reasons. (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:42, 23 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

The odd thing is that there's a wiki about serial murderers still up, which makes me wonder if someone truly did file a complaint. Lord Amok (talk) 20:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At least they were kind enough to add the possibility to download the content. Amok Wikia (Lord Gøn (talk) 01:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of stop motion films, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kronos.

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