Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Deletion policy page.
Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite, and welcoming to new users Assume good faith Do not attack other users For disputes, please see our guideline
Archives: 1, 2, 3

Given that we have more and more unused templates, full of red links, and the results of RFDs tend to delete, I propose to add one more CSD criterion: T3: Templates containing all red links and are unused.

Ideas are welcomed, thanks for considering.Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 12:47, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I think this was proposed before (by me). An issue raised at that time was that a template creator might need time to turn red links blue and put the template to use, so an additional requirement might need to be that the template needed to be a certain number of days old. However, it was then pointed out that having to wait to QD might not be considered quick. That proposal was rejected (though I'm not saying this one will be). --Auntof6 (talk) 13:00, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Why not we add in 7 days old untouched templates, if let say the creator created today, I RFDed, 7 days later, still the same, defaults to delete, so if the creator left it untouched after 7 days, we can be sure if at the very point of creation we RFDed, it will never survive the RFD. Although I hate to striaght RFD pages, that is a little harsh on creators, but it typically happen this way so 7 days will be a good yardstick. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  To me, if we’re doing that, we might as well RfD. If we are going to include a new "quick" deletion criteria, it should be deleted straight away if unused. Otherwise, I don’t see the reason to even introduce it if 7 days would have to be waited. I would support such a criteria to avoid unnecessary RfDs, but only if the deletion would be truly quick. --IWI (talk) 13:42, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Okay, let's try not include 7 days then. Proposal is per listed in the 1st go. Let's see whether we have consensus this time, per consensus can change? Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 17:20, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. With RfD running to 52 items, we need to make more use of QDs. Seven days idea is also OK, but not essential. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose We already have a problem with people jumping on things to delete them too quick. We have to give time to allow the articles to be created. Don't forget our Rfd process also serves as prod here so anything that goes there gets deleted automatically after 7 days unless objected to. -Djsasso (talk) 12:16, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Djsasso: In practice I see many admins extending dates on RfDs with no votes, so clearly this is not the case, at least not for a majority of admins. --IWI (talk) 12:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes I am not sure why that has suddenly started happening. It is new within the last year. I believe Eptalon started doing it and then some others started following. But there has been community discussion around this multiple times. -Djsasso (talk) 12:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree that with our small community, relisting RfDs is not really helpful. If nobody comments after a week it should be taken as no objections. If someone wanted it kept, they probably would have commented. --IWI (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose per Djsasso. Chenzw  Talk  17:22, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello all, we are currently at over 50 open RfDs. What I would therefore like to propose is the following:

• To renominate a kept RfD, a minimum waiting-period of 3 months or a signifgicant change in article content is required.

Re-running an article at RfD that was closed earlier, is likely to get the same result, unless the article changed significantly. Thoughts?--Eptalon (talk) 11:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Is that seriously a cause of the long queue? I would think an underuse of QD is a cause. Together, of course, with lots of kids being cooped up at home because of covid! Also, what percent of RfDs is caused by renoms? Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:03, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  We actually have the opposite problem, of QDs being used too much. A4 is often used when it is not applicable for example. -Djsasso (talk) 12:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I would say to reduced to 1 month because it may be long time for that. Only 1 month is enough.KP (talk) 12:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't see how this is related to the amount of RfDs. Only 2 that I can see were previously nominated. --IWI (talk) 12:14, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I am not sure having a lot of Rfds is a problem. If anything it shows that things are working as they should. There is always going to be an ebb and flow where sometimes there are a lot and sometimes there are not many. Don't forget our Rfd also works as prod where any articles nominated if they don't have an oppose automatically get deleted after 7 days so it doesn't actually end up using any extra editor time to have a bunch up there unless they are all controversial nominations. -Djsasso (talk) 12:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Djsasso: With 50 RfDs now open, it might be helpful to leave a message on WP:AN reminding admins of this. We could theoretically be relisting them repeatedly forever. --IWI (talk) 12:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose based on the fact that certain things can be missed in previous RfDs, regardless of a change in page content. An example of this has happened recently here where new information changed people's opinion. --IWI (talk) 07:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  You mean we are currently discussing to what extent a contestant of 'Miss Universe' is notable. There was no final contest in 2020, so there are many contestants, who each won the 'national contest'. And yes, we all know like many contests, this is about finding a pretty girl that gets a contract for advertising, for a year. I mean, en:Nathan Söderblom is also just known for one event. In my opinion the issue here is also tto accept a decision of the closing admin; unless the article changed significatly, or a long time passed, we shouldnt renominate articles. If I think an article should be deleted, and the closing admin decides otherwise, re-nominating it until it is shouldn't be an option (unless ofc a long time passed, or the article changed significantly). I might not agree with the closing admin's decision, but I accept it.--Eptalon (talk) 10:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  This is not about accepting the cloising admin's decision. I totally accept the closure of the previous RfD where consensus was clear at the time, but bringing certain previously unmentioned aspects to light have changed the opinion of three people (me included) from the original RfD in this case. From this standpoint, giving a fixed period of time where one cannot RfD a page does not seem appropriate. Sure, bringing a page for RfD a short time after with nothing extra brought to the discussion should not be done, but a fixed time is not the way to go about that. --IWI (talk) 10:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Actually putting aside PAID editing (which is hard to proof and hard to delete), (and I will recommend something like COIN if we want to say about PAID), the articles all suffer from BIO1E as the actual Miss Universe isn't held due to COVID, if they had been held, it will be easily 2 events (local / international) events. But to be honest, the BIO1E argument isn't that solid as it should be after some point in time we examine the article (after all the dust have settled), this is still in the midst, likely they will be held this year. So I will think those articles are a case of created too soon, and if there is a draftspace, I will gladly say move to draft. My 2 cents. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 11:17, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  To me, they can only be considered notable in the international competition if they win. Otherwise, they are very unlikely to receive enough coverage to meet WP:GNG, regardless of how many pageants they took part in. Ultimately, all of these guidelines, including BIO1E, are simply estimations we use to guess whether a person will meet GNG. This isn't a discussion that should take place here in any case. In relation to the proposal, I oppose a fixed time period. --IWI (talk) 16:47, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Camouflaged Mirage: To make what I said above a little clearer, simply taking part in the international Miss Universe competition does not make someone notable unless they win it, so BIO1E would still apply to all of these winners of local competitions unless they go on to win the international one. This is because if they do not win, they have only played a minor role in the event (as BIO1E) states "When the role played by an individual in the event is less significant, an independent article may not be needed, and a redirect is appropriate". Otherwise, there will probably not be enough coverage to meet GNG. --IWI (talk) 16:54, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @ImprovedWikiImprovment Let take it step by step, 1st the miss universe competition can be one additional source of notable event, I really don't know why you keep on discount the local selection pageants, some of them may be notable events. Secondary, we need to take more care in a blanket, take part in Miss Universe = non notable, as some of them might have others event / activities. Note notablity is not based on sourcing or content in the article, each subject should be ideally evaluated one by one, who knows one of them might write a book that qualifies them as NAUTHOR, another might act in films which make them okay per NCREATIVE and another might be a prof which fulfills NPROF. Such blanket statements is unsafe at times. I am not saying this batch some meets, but there is always a possiblity. Lastly, there are some other events like Olympics /Asian Games / South East Asian Games which NATHELETE seems to suggest medal winners have their page, is it because there isn't a subject notablity guideline for pageants, then it should be time for us to discuss one if needed to have some consistency. Do note that some winners may have greater fame in their home countries than the events themselves too, hence, per BIO1E, we should also be careful that for such subjects, it may be better to write about them not the competion only, and some winners / participants may be given civilian awards etc. All in all, my approach will be all these since the international event is not held due to COVID, we should take it that we don't know who wins, and hence, a better reason for deletion will be too soon / etc rather than the blanket assertion in some sense, we simply just don't know who will be notable in time or not in some sense (based on the competition placing) - but some might be notable now, each need individual research. I voted keep for one of them as I think it's ok, feel free to defer though. Nice to discuss this out :) Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 17:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes you are right, I should correct myself. Of course, any one of these could be notable for another reason, but taking part in the Miss Universe doesn't inherently mean they are notable in of itself. Also, the local events are notable, but most of their winners do not pass GNG for coverage about them. Yes, it is very good to have a discussion to come to an agreement :). --IWI (talk) 17:44, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment: I am thinking something along the lines of zhwp deletion policy here, briefly and 3rd paragraph "If a page had been kept in RFD, or restored in deletion review, the same page shouldn't be renominated for deletion for the same reason. Unless 6 months had passed, if any RFD is nominated with the same reason, and the page didn't have any significant changes or cirumstances didn't change, it can be speedy keep. If it's no consensus, then a resonable wait period should be imposed before renomination. enwp seems to have en:WP:NPASR, these are things we can follow.Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 11:25, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For Anjum Lucknowi Category:Kenya Websites and my other pages un delete them I also sometimes edit pages to make them out of the deletion criteria.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulysses 0G (talk • contribs) 18:48, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why is "Pages directly copied from other Wikipedias" listed under "Discussed deletion"? This would either be A3 or A5. Lights and freedom (talk) 19:04, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Sometimes, editors copy the page from another Wikipedia (usually enwp), and then they work on it to make it easier to understand. Depending on the page, the language may already be suitable for our wiki, so it won't fall under the 'copied from somewhere else, not simpilfied' QD criterion. Also, in some cases we might want to discuss the issue. --Eptalon (talk) 19:11, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wouldn't that not be "directly copied"? Lights and freedom (talk) 19:12, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • We live in the age of sharing, the cotent of Wikipedia is under a free license. As I pointed our, the text may be sipmle enough, and just need attribution on the talk page....--Eptalon (talk) 19:24, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • A3 requires it to be directly copied and complex. Not just directly copied. A5 of course would require it to be in a language other than English. -Djsasso (talk) 12:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think this should be removed, as it is misleading. An editor may see a complex page directly copied from enwiki, then look at this policy, and then see that "pages directly copied from other Wikipedias" is listed as a reason for RfD. When instead, they should be using QD. I think this line should be replaced with something like "articles that claim to be notable, but do not meet WP:Notability" because that is the most common reason for RfDs. Lights and freedom (talk) 20:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can U2 be used for user talk pages of accounts that have been hidden by stewards? (i.e. when you go to contributions, and the account is "not registered" but there are contributions there) --Ferien (talk) 19:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Talk pages can't be deleted unless its purely vandalism. The user existed at one point so the talk page is valid. Most often that I see this case when the editor is very old, there is a point where a lot of stuff was converted from the previous wikisoftware I think it was so users that do exist don't show as registered. I forget all the details about how it all worked, but I had to go around undeleting a bunch of stuff in the last year or so where people thought the users didn't exist but they actually did and incorrectly went around deleting stuff. However, they did exist, their accounts were just very old. Djsasso (talk) 12:25, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks. --Ferien (talk) 20:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Because it has happened recently (the change has been revdel'd already), should it be clarified that addition of bad or offending images as vandalism could be grounds for revision deletion? 209.232.149.23 (talk) 18:36, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You might be able to argue that could fall under RD3. I don't think we need one for images. The images all exist on commons, if they should be deleted I feel like it should be dealt with at the source on commons. --Gordonrox24 | ^Talk 18:41, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There has recently been vandalism on WP:AN with bad images. It has been revdel'd already (and I already sent a request to have an admin add the images to the bad image list) but I feel as though that criteria should also clarify that something like that would fall under RD3. 209.232.149.23 (talk) 18:52, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That would already be RD3. -Djsasso (talk) 19:47, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Team, This page has now been fixed. Now remove the delete tag on it.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnshumanTiwari# Refugiaa5 (talk) 06:54, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• This situation has been concluded. The page was deleted as a recreation of deleted material on 19 January 2022. --Creol(talk) 22:59, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As it is written, "Has been copied and pasted from another Wikipedia without simplifying complex text", the requirements are that it has been copied and pasted and no simplification has been done. This is not how it is being enforced. In some cases, no simplification is done because it is not needed. This is a perfectly acceptable stance but the wording should be changed to convey this. As such, I would suggest changing the statement above to:

"Has been copied and pasted from another Wikipedia and contains complex text that has not been simplified."

The difference is both subtle and drastic. It no longer say simplification must be done only that it needs to be done and wasn't. This is how the rule is being interpreted so it should be what it says.

Basic checklist for using this justification to quick delete:

1. Was the article copied and pasted from another wikipedia?
2. Is the article in need of simplification?
3. Has simplification been attempted and, if so ,has an acceptable -personal call- attempt been made?

This does leave it up to admin discretion as to what amount of complex text is enough to warrant accepting a quick deletion under this rule, but enforcement of policy is commonly at their discretion so this is no different. The rest of the statement does give a way out for not accepting it if they feel simplification has at least been attempted but was not sufficient. It is up to the admin to decide if simplification is needed to a degree that the article should be deleted rather than just tagged. Pure Evil (talk) 21:52, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Pure Evil: I don't see the difference. We basically do follow the three items you list. The current wording says "without simplifying complex text". If there is no complex text to simplify, then of course none would be done -- none can be done. If it just said "without simplifying text", then I would see the issue. -- Auntof6 (talk) 22:30, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The policy says that simplification was not done. This is not what how the rule is being used. As it is written, if simplification of complex text was not done, then the rule can apply. The fact that there was no complex text to simplify has no bearing on that. All that matters is that no simplification was done. The change is that the reasoning only applies if simplification was needed and not done. If there is no complex text, this reasoning does not apply. This is how the policy is being enforced but not what the policy states. The wording change reflects the intent of the policy and how it is being used. The change does not affect how the policy is being enforced. It only ensures the wording and the accepted meaning are the same thing. Currently, they are not. A3 can be used to delete an article as long as no simplification of complex text was done whether it was needed or not. This changes that to make it only apply if the simplification is needed as this is how the policy is interpreted and enforced. Pure Evil (talk) 22:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As the policy is written, the checklist would be:

1. Was the article copied and pasted from another wikipedia?
2. Was simplification of complex text done?

Done, needed is not stated. "without simplifying complex text" does not care if it was not needed, only that it did not happen. Pure Evil (talk) 23:49, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That part of the sentence says exactly what you are asking for. It doesn't say without simplifying simple text, it says without simplifying complex text. So it is saying no simplifying of specifically complex text. -Djsasso (talk) 16:02, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly, as currently written, this part of the policy is being denied evidently because the target of the attack is not singular.

As written :"Pages that were only created to insult a person or thing (such as "John Q. Doe is dumb")" is being interpreted that it only applies to a specific person or object and not a group. "Tim is stupid" is a valid target but "Chinese people are stupid" is not. Racism is perfectly acceptable by this rule as it is an attack on a group and not on an individual. The wording needs to be changed so that anything that is seen as an attack on anything can fall under this rule given admin opinion. The simplest change in my opinion would be from "a person or thing" to "something" A person, a thing, a group. a religion, a nation, a people, an idea, anything that can be said to be "Something". Thing should already include "something" but it is not being seen that way so the rule needs to be expanding to include people and things and not just person and thing. Odd that people are anal about the wording on this rule and nonchalant when it comes to the wording of other rules. Pure Evil (talk) 02:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This rule does not mean that racism is acceptable, just that the rule can't be used to delete the particular kind of thing you're talking about.

As for the specific changes suggested, QD option descriptions are written to be very specific: "something" is very non-specific, so I would not support using that term. We could change the rule to say "a person, group of people, or thing". We could also change it to use the same wording as option A4: "people, groups, companies, products, services or websites".

And I think it would be much more productive if we just discuss the change and not the people we may have disagreements with. -- Auntof6 (talk) 03:46, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By your own choice, that is not viable. It only protects a singular thing and you stated that means it can not apply to any plaural things, There is also the fact of being a concept, idea or say religion. A religion is a system of thought, not a thing. If the rule were as you suggest, to say "Christianity is an idiotic concept that screws over the weak minded and the ignorant" is not an attack that can be quick deleted. If the attack is not aimed at the people, then it is protected from quick deletion no matter how offensive it is to those same people. A person could attack homosexuality all they want but if they do not aim at people it is totally defended. Bigotted ideals are fine if they are about the concept and not the person. "Mixed race relations are a blight on society and any steps to prevent such atrocities should be taken at any cost." Abhorrent thought but perfectly acceptable under the rules as such since it does not attack a person. It just condemns the situation and suggest that death should be the result. Death of who? no one in particular. Certainly not a person or group as that would be actionable. Just that the concept should lead to death. In reality, if any of this actually happened, I am pretty certain more than one admin would make the call to do what is right and remove such trash. There is a pretty good chance that oversight would even be involved. This defense of racist vandalism based on something being plural while the rule only applies to singular entities of specific classes is extremely short sighted and needs to be corrected.

And people wonder why I need to step away from this place for a month at a time. Its inane happenings like this that drove me away last month. Some things never seem to change. Pure Evil (talk) 07:56, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Chinese people are stupid" would not be perfectly acceptable by this rule. It just is not mentioned in this rule specifically. Racism on Wikipedia is vandalism and can be deleted as such using G3. And perhaps you would like to read Auntof6's message in further detail instead of accusing them of defending racist vandalism. --Ferien (talk) 14:11, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There have been some instances of non-notable idea based pages that get stuck in the RFD queue when they could fall under a non-notability clause such as A4 if it covered ideas and ideologies. I am proposing the expansion of A4 to cover ideas, religions and general schools of thought that aren't notable enough to be covered in an encyclopedia. Thank you. Derpdart56 (talk) 20:26, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. I don't think keeping an article about an idea is something that should be decided on quickly. Ideas are not concrete things like the other subjects we can currently delete via A4, so it's harder to evaluate their notability. If RFDs for ideas are getting "stuck", that's an indication of how hard they are to evaluate. I also think that the kind of things included in A4 should be kept to a minimum. --Auntof6 (talk) 22:30, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose A4 is already used too often and if anything, its scope should be reduced, not expanded. --Ferien (talk) 19:16, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia:Simple talk#That talk we should have for the proposal. --Ferien (talk) 20:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well fast is a more commonly known word than quick deletion, making it more suitable in simple English than quick. Do you think this makes sense? Because suppose you talk to a 12-year-old French boy who started learning English at 9. He will probably understand fast rather than quick, probably like I learned English. So should we change it to 'fast' deletion, or should we leave it like this because there are so many 'quick' deletion terms and we are used to it? Thanks, WPchanger2011 (page, talk, changes he did, more changes) 02:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Quick is in BE 1500 but fast is not. --Ferien (talk) 17:44, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The G2 criteria states that a page is a "test page", however this criteria is not clearly defined. It only has an example of a possible test page. There are others that know the definition, but also many others who do not. I am left to guess when a page is A1, G1 or G3. Angerxiety 14:07, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a possibility. A test page is a page created to test the editing function. The enwiki version states: This applies to pages created to test editing or other Wikipedia functions. It applies to subpages of the Wikipedia Sandbox created as tests, but does not apply to the Sandbox itself, pages in the user namespace, or valid but unused or duplicate templates; we could adapt our own version. --IWI (talk) 14:29, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Angerxiety, I don't think an expansion of G2 is necessary. What a test page is is fairly clear. It is a page that was clearly created as a test. "Can I really create a page here?" would be one example, but it could also be used for "testing" or something similar. It seems G2 is often used for nonsense (e.g. ueri314g) pages (that are eligible for G1) and articles with just a couple of words (that are eligible for A1), however pages like that aren't actually eligible for G2. It is only pages that are clearly created as tests. Anything else can use the other criteria. G3 is used for clear vandalism that wouldn't fit A1 or G1. --Ferien (talk) 17:41, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The way it's written doesn't sound good. Converting articles to redirects is mentioned right before the section on deleting redirects. It suggests you can convert an article to a redirect, and then tag the redirect for quick deletion. This isn't usually acceptable because it's a way to avoid the RFD process. Maybe that first sentence should be removed? Lights and freedom (talk) 17:25, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it suggests that. It specifically instructs you to use RfD for any articles that cannot be deleted quickly. Any redirect can be deleted under two of those QD redirect rules even if that page has been to RfD in the past, especially R1. R2 could apply in theory – let's say we RfD a userdraft, it's kept, but then it's eventually moved to mainspace. R3 would never apply because it is only for recently created redirects. --Ferien (talk) 17:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How is "For any articles that should not be deleted quickly, use Wikipedia:Requests for deletion." relevant to the section about redirects? Lights and freedom (talk) 17:34, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because sometimes at RfD we might choose to redirect a page to another instead of deleting it. --Ferien (talk) 17:41, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But the section is about deleting redirects, not creating them. I still don't think it fits there. I also think it would be better to replace these sentences with what WPchanger2011 wrote. Similar text is there in the "articles" section in case someone doesn't know there's an alternative to quick deletion and just clicks the section heading. Lights and freedom (talk) 18:24, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it could be helpful in showing what redirects are clearly acceptable and unacceptable but I'm not sure if that's the best place for this sort of thing. I don't think we would talk about this if we added it today, it doesn't have very much relevance, but at the same time, I don't see much of a reason to remove it. --Ferien (talk) 21:39, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that we change the first sentence of A4 to say "important" instead of "notable". The intention of A4 is not notability (which is decided at RfD) but significance or importance, which is a lower standard than notability. I believe the current wording has led to some confusion about what the criterion applies to. The current wording implies that it can be used to delete articles that do not make claims that would meet notability guidelines, which is not how A4 is or should be used.

Since the criterion is not intended to apply to notability, it does not make sense to include the sentence "If not everyone agrees that the subject is not notable or there has been a previous RfD with a result to keep, the article may not be quickly deleted, and should be discussed at RfD instead" as an article's content will either meet the criterion or it will not. Notable subjects can have articles deleted via A4, as it only applies to what is claimed within the article. Thoughts? --IWI (talk) 02:03, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the intent of A4 is to address notability. Also, there's a specific definition of notability as it applies to Wikipedia article subjects. If we start using the term "important" instead, we would need a specific definition of that as well because it's a subjective term. -- Auntof6 (talk) 03:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Auntof6: If you read A4 as it stands, the next sentences are "This includes any article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, product, service or web content that does not say why the subject is important. If the article says why the subject is important, the article is not eligible for A4 deletion." The intention of A4 should be to mimic the equivalents on enwiki, and that is how A4 currently reads, aside from the first sentence. Information about what "important" or "significant" means can be found here on enwiki; notability is a much higher standard than what A4 is intended for. It may be useful to have our own version of this page. --IWI (talk) 04:36, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In what way would that help us? - A claim of notability, is enough. If there's a burning building 100m down the road, and I write an article about it, that article has to say why this subject is worth writing about? - What if the building was Grenfell tower? - Yes, it burned down, many people lost their lives, but at what moment in time did that event become worth writing about`? - How many buildings burn down each day, possibly injuring or killing people, how many of them get articles? - Can we argue a case where this change, as proposed, actually makes a difference? - how much perceptual overhead' does it introduce, and is that worth the effort of explaining? - The idea is to be as sipmle as possible, with as few rules/cases as necessary. Eptalon (talk) 10:25, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Eptalon: In the case of Grenfell Tower, the presence of any coverage in reliable sources being added to the article would be enough to pass A4 as it is a low standard. It helps us because it avoids articles being quickly deleted for "not being notable", when that is a discussion the community should have at RfD. I could well delete a good chunk of the articles that go to RfD via A4 if it were intended to refer to the notability guidelines, but it simply cannot and is not used that way. I'm not really proposing any major change to the actual policy, just a slight reword to the first sentence for accuracy and a removal of an unnecessary part that doesn't make sense in the context of the criterion. The policy already uses the word "importance" everywhere else, I am not sure why the first sentence links to WP:NOTABILITY, it should not. --IWI (talk) 11:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And yes we should be simple, but that doesn't mean we should have quick deletion criteria that contains inaccurate and confusing descriptions. The word "importance" is probably more simple anyway. --IWI (talk) 11:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Importance" may be taught to language learners before "notable", but is faaaar more confusing in a Wikipedia context. We'd need to define this standard of importance. Important to who? Important in what contexts? Is someone being a parent important because their children view them as such? Notable is a well-defined and long-discussed standard, and there have been few problems with the A4 standard of a claim to notability. If there are problems with the application of the QD criteria, we can address that, but there's no need to create the further confusion of a new and far more subjective standard. Best, Vermont 🐿️ (talk) 17:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vermont: I see what you mean, but it is still leading to confusion with the current wording. I at least still believe that the sentence mentioned in my second paragraph should be removed, because someone disagreeing with whether a subject is notable or not should have no influence on whether an article meets A4 or not. I also think having a short version of en:WP:Credible claim of significance here on simple linked from the word “notable” (instead of WP:Notability, which actually has nothing to do with this criterion, as determining notability is always done at RfD) would make the meaning of A4 much clearer. The word "notability" doesn't have to be changed in order to make the criterion a little more specific. Any thoughts? (Also ping @Auntof6 and Eptalon:). --IWI (talk) 14:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will perhaps state again: If there is a person who sees that just shortly down the road, a house is burning, or that people are rioting or fighting with police, at what point in time does that event become worth writing about? - Perhaps an example (no, don't klick on the links) - en:Igor Kostin,en:Anatoly Dyatlov, or en:Vasily Ignatenko all of them are worth writing about. Why? - the helped clean up and secure the mess, after the Chernobyl disaster. In English, they are known as en:Chernobyl liquidators. Most of them died shortly after the disaster, as they had been exposed to a lot of radiation. Most were young. Let me come back to the original subject. All of them are worth writing about, but in our small community no one has written about them, because no one found the time or interest to do so. And that's perhaps where the fine difference lies: If something is important, it is important for a person,or a group of people. If something is notable, it is important for everyone, and we no longer need to argue whether some specific person finds it worth writing about. This also means we need to be very careful with the terminology. As I pointed out, the terms are not interchangeable. Changing one for the other changes the scope and meaning of the sentence. So, which of the two meanings do we want? Eptalon (talk) 15:42, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And like I said, the answer to what "significance" and "importance" means is explained in-depth at en:Wikipedia:Credible claim of significance (a statement in the article that attributes noteworthiness or information written about the subject in reliable sources), and it is a very low standard (lower than notability guidelines). This is already how A4 is applied. --IWI (talk) 18:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think something from that page that is also particularly relevant here is "A claim of significance need not amount to a statement that, if sourced, would establish notability". --IWI (talk) 18:18, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Part of G10 (Copyright infringements) says "Containing no content in the page history that is worth being saved." What does thst mean and how does it apply to G10?!? fr33kman 17:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fr33kman: an article may (and very often does) have copyright infringements added into it after the article has been created. This point exists to prevent previously good articles, turned into copyright violations, from being fully deleted, but should probably more specifically specify RevDel as the appropriate option. --Ferien (talk) 22:41, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, understood now. So an article could be saved by going back in time and saving a previous revision and then RevDel-ing the copyright infringement? Thanks! :) fr33kman 04:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fr33kman, yep, that is what it is suggesting admins do :) --Ferien (talk) 21:42, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to expand A4 to include any object (building, park, etc...) that does not assert notability. Today I deleted an article that I knew would failan RfD but technically I should not have because it was about a building and not a person, product, group etc... Thoughts? fr33kman 01:44, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts:

• The term "object" might be too vague. For example, I don't think a park is an object.
• I worry that we'd be heading down a slippery slope if we do this. If we add objects, then what's left that isn't allowed under A4?
• Whether we add objects or not, we need to hold to the definition of the A4 option when quickly deleting. Users often use it for things not specified in the definition. If we go ahead and delete things anyway, we might as well take out the specific things and use it for anything and everything.
• You say you know the article you deleted would have failed an RFD. However, sometimes articles at RFD get improved and become acceptable; that's better than just deleting them right away.

Those are my thoughts. -- Auntof6 (talk) 05:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we shouldn't overuse A4, to become a catch-all. Given that this Wiki is run by volunteers, what do we lose by listing an article at Rfd? - It doesn't really matter if the article sits at RfD for a week, everyone can voice their opiniuon, and at the end, the closing admin is backed by what the community had to say. I have had the case that a QD decision was appealed (sometimes by e-mail), so the artice went to RfD. Alos, at RfD, the closing admin is often not the nominator, so there's a second opinion. Eptalon (talk) 08:14, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is also completely my opinion. A4 is already overused. There is absolutely no harm in RfD'ing and getting people's opinions on things. Unlike other things, like people, ideas (suggested above), companies, products... this is unlikely to be spammed, unless the article is talking about something like a company located at (address), in which case that would apply under the company rule. --Ferien (talk) 22:39, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I agree A4 should be more strictly used. Thanks! :) fr33kman 04:23, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd consider a new G13 for AI content that is not simplified. fr33kman 02:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the others A4 is overused. Also I believe but am not positive that A4 was always intended for spam-like promotion of people and groups etc which is why its only that group of things. -Djsasso (talk) 19:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since we are a language Wikipedia and not the English Wikipedia, I find it interesting that A5 says deletion for not being written in English. Should we change this to "not written in Simple English"? It could enable us to nip complex articles in the bud. I know one of the problems will be "what is Simple English" as we'd have to determine whether or not it's written in complex English whereas deleting an article because it's written in French is an easy decision. It would allow us to get rid of quickely articles we see that are obviously written in highly complex English. Thoughts? fr33kman 04:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A3 already covers not written in Simple English. A5 is specifically to make sure its atleast English because as you mention not simple enough is a somewhat of a judgement call so belongs at Rfd more than a QD. Judgement calls should mostly be kept away from QD. Its why QD often gets overused. Not being simple enough is not really a reason to be QD'd unless its a pure copy paste job ala A3. -Djsasso (talk) 19:05, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This may can include lists or galleries of images without text. they are not test pages but are not encyclopedic either but don’t need a4. 190.4.27.18 (talk) 21:23, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We could use A2 here because there is no text content and it (technically) consists only of links, to images. --Ferien (talk) 21:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah but I’m just asking if it will be good idea because this also includes unesecary lists which are content. 190.4.27.18 (talk) 21:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are simple wikipedia and we do not need to create a link for every little thing. We have very rare circumstances in which this would be used. Thanks - PDL^{Talk to me!}_{Please don't eat da 🐑!} 21:42, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would want to see this defined in more detail. -- Auntof6 (talk) 21:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think it’s an Bad idea, but i fear that an administator use this criteria to delete well Made articles just because a banned user created them. I think this should only be applied if the page brokes other QD rule and has been created by a blocked/locked user. 186.2.155.19 (talk) 01:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G5 talks about blocked users in violation of that block/ban. It is not to be used to delete content created before such a block exists.

We should really WP:DENY blocked users by not allowing the content even if it's of high quality. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:57, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth noting that that isn't how G5 works here. We emphasised that admins don't have to delete every article made by a blocked user, because G5 didn't exist for a long time for the reason that we would benefit from the content, even if it was from a blocked user. So when we implemented the criterion last year, this concern the IP raises was already addressed in that discussion. --Ferien (talk) 22:06, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment: Just as a note this is the only contribution by this IP and we have had a lot of issues of crap articles coming from that area that blatantly fail notability amongst many other things and then they fight to try to get it undeleted and then create accounts and ip hop to keep making the articles which is why we have our QD and when it’s found out they are blocked/banned/glocked they create more accounts and get very upset and try to prove someone/thing is notable when they are in fact not. Very few articles made by a blocked/banned/glocked user actually stay here. Thanks - PDL^{Talk to me!}_{Please don't eat da 🐑!} 23:02, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia. G5 is used for content created in violation of a block or ban, as Lee Vilenski has explained above. Any editor is free to request undeletion or that a copy be sent to them of deleted content at Wikipedia:Deletion review, and we don't necessarily always use G5. Justarandomamerican (t • c) 12:02, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I propose the merger is because g1 articles are equally as harmful as g3 since they just try to fill Wikipedia with useless junk to make the platform worse. Maybe I can be wrong but it’s my thought if you want to gave your opinion let a reply below! Uróli 2024 🧑🏻 (talk) 19:58, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Uróli 2024 Actually, they are quite different. G1 is for things that someone types, like ojhiehoy042uhiujoeqlnfoj (that is non-sense); G3 is more like attacking someone or making bad changes to something. Say start an article talk page and say someone famous is so and so (vulgar language, name calling, defamation, etc.) So there is a difference in them. WP:Vandalism can tell you more about how to define and detect vandalism. Thanks - PDL^{Talk to me!}_{Please don't eat da 🐑!} 20:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} Please change ==== Redirects ==== to ==== Redirects ==== {{shortcut|WP:RQD}} . Tule-hog (talk) 20:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tule-hog I wouldn't mind adding this but the redirect itself doesn't exist currently. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 13:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done MathXplore created the redirect so I added it to the page. I'll also go and add a few other ones after this. --Ferien (talk) 19:47, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to suggest adding G13 "AI generated content that shows little sign of simplification or violates WP:AI." Thoughts? fr33kman 00:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose It's not that I think these pages shouldn't be deleted, but it's impossible to accurately identify AI-generated content in the normal timeframe a quick deletion request is handled in. We could have complex pages that we think were created by AI but weren't, and vice versa. Unlike copyright violations and copypastes from English Wikipedia, we cannot be certain a page has been generated by AI. I think these pages should be handled by our existing deletion processes for the time being, as there isn't yet a massive influx of these sorts of article. --Ferien (talk) 20:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support I maintain my position from previous discussions. BZPN (talk) 21:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

QD G7 says Any page whose original author wants deletion can be quickly deleted, but only if most of the page was written by that author and was created as a mistake. If the author blanks the page, this can mean that they want it deleted. I think that this current wording is quite unusual, since it implies that the only pages that can be G7'd both have an author who requests deletion, and were created as a mistake. That second part seems as if it would be quite hard to prove. Besides, as far as I'm aware, that part is rarely even considered when G7 QDs are performed. I propose removing the "and was created as a mistake" clause entirely. Pages that are created as a mistake would qualify for G6 QD anyway. JJP_Master (she/they) 20:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you make a good point and would lean towards agreeing, although I have thought about it before. Back about a decade ago there seemed to be a lot of petty drama on this wiki and while I can't think of any abuse of this criterion individually, there were certainly tit-for-tat deletion requests that used to occur. Reading into that, and with that context, I've thought, couldn't I just G7 all my creations, removing ~200 articles from the site right off the bat, and call it quits here if that clause were not in there? I guess I could, but I feel that's clearly a misuse of the quick deletion process that doesn't have to be explicitly mentioned. --Ferien (talk) 21:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]