Property talk:P5838

GameIDs from Nintendo game boy games up to recent switch games also have Nintendo GameIDs but those have another format. Also they can not be found in DolphinWiki. They are however used by GameTDB and are what makes the GameTDB id attribute. Unfortunately GameTDB only lists DS and 3DS games, so also no GB, GBC, GBA games.

This current format only applies to home console games, while handheld games had a XXX-XXXX-XXX format up to nintendo switch. For the switch another character was added resulting in: XXX-XXXXX-XXX.

Some basic but incomplete information can be found here: Reddit: Nintendo Cartridge Codes Decoded

Best regards, Emberwit (talk) 00:29, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

The NES (e.g. NES-SM-USA), SNES, Nintendo 64 (e.g. NUS-NSME-USA) and Virtual Boy (e.g. VUE-VWCJ-USA) also have IDs with this longer form (and in fact, the GameCube/Wii do have them too, as DL-DOL-GMSE-USA and RVL-RSPE-USA), but the format used here is what's used internally in the disc image and thus what's useful for Dolphin).

I would support addition of additional properties for different systems if there are places to which those IDs could be linked. A single shared property doesn't seem as useful to me. Perhaps this one could be renamed to "Nintendo GameID (GameCube/Wii)" (technically the TriForce also uses these IDs, but not uniquely).

Note that no-intro.org does list these IDs (which is where I got those examples from), but they don't have a persistent identifier so they can't really be linked to. --Pokechu22 (talk) 04:54, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Maybe it does make sense to introduce a Nintendo game id attribute for each platform so each one can be linked accordingly. I am working on a game database service and use these ids as identifiers. But currently I am not able to (automatically) link to wikidata as there is no real website-independent identifier except for those platforms that are present on GameTDB Emberwit (talk) 10:08, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

It's also worth noting that the longer-form IDs do not identify the game itself, but the packaging and disc label. For instance, one European release of The Incredibles (Q2296093) has Redump.org ID (P5290) of 20083, with both the UK and Spanish versions having Nintendo GameID (GameCube/Wii) (P5838) of GICP78, but there are different longer codes (DL-DOL-GICP-ESP and DL-DOL-GICP-UKV). (Archived ebay examples: Spanish, UK, UK Player's Choice (also note that the Spanish version has English text only; from the back of the box,

Manual en castellano, software en ingles

, i.e. the manual is in Spanish but the software is in English)). Nintendo GameID (GameCube/Wii) (P5838) distinctly identifies a published version of a game (well, there is also a disc number and revision number, but each release is generally unique; the one weird case I know of is Phantasy Star Online: Episode I & II (Q3378068) which has a "Plus" version with the same ID (redump), but that's largely the same game). The central 4 characters are the same between them, though. (The extra 2 characters here are a publisher code; in a few cases the same game is rereleased by multiple publishers (e.g. R6FE41/R6FERS).

One other thing to note is that although there is no stable source for US games, Nintendo of Japan uses it in their URLs, from old games such as Super Mario World (Q853143) (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/shvc/mw/index.html), Kirby's Dream Land 3 (Q1202713) (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/shvc/afjj/index.html) (note the transition from 2 to 4 characters even though both are SNES games), and The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (Q1060323) (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/dmg/zlj/index.html) to modern ones such as Super Mario Odyssey (Q28234671) (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/switch/aaaca/) and The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (Q61745904) (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/switch/ar3na/). However, this only applies to first-party games, and only to Japanese releases. I've mostly been adding these with official website (P856) (though this is on an as-I-see-it basis, and a lot of them do not have this data yet).

I've adjusted the property's label to specify that it only makes sense for GameCube or Wii games. --Pokechu22 (talk) 18:27, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for sharing your findings. I've been handling NDS game ids for the most part so far and found similar information. The central four characters determine the software itself, whereof the last one indicates the release version (which usually differ only in included languages like P for PAL, E for North America, J for Japan etc., sometimes special retailer or subregion releases). So basically the first three of the central for determine the game, the fourth one indicates the release.

The following three letters indicate the region of distribution of this exact item, so they can be different on game disc/cart and game case, as multi-language discs are usually packaged differently in different regions. On the very end there can be a revision number like XXX-XXXX-XXX-1 or XXX-XXXX-XXX-2. The first set of letters indicates the platform (DMG, CGB, AGB, NTR, TWL, CTR, HAC), and in front of that can be three more letters indicating the kind of item you are looking at, though this is sometimes left out. E.g. it's LNA (shortened as LA on switch) for the game cartridge (On 3DS and Switch games this is printed, before it was not), MAA stands for the game manual, TSA for the game cover etc.

So eventually what is sufficient to link to a WikiData item would be the the first three chars of the four (or first four of the five for switch) character long indicator for the game. To include different language releases one would use all four/five characters. Regards Emberwit (talk) 13:15, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

IMO it's better to use all 4/5 characters, as there are a few weird special cases where it resolves ambiguities (for instance, GoldenEye: Rogue Agent (Q180181) uses GGIJ in Japan but GOY for other regions, and Jurassic: The Hunted (Q6314891) was released under R8XE52 but then rereleased as "Top Shot: Dinosaur Hunter" with ID R8XZ52 (there does not seem to be an item for this currently, but it's not clear if it really deserves a separate one, and the Wikipedia article doesn't mention that title currently)). GameIDs and GameID Confirmation Guide on the Dolphin wiki may help a bit (though it only covers GameCube/Wii games). --Pokechu22 (talk) 21:08, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for clarification. So the GameCube/Wii ids seem to work pretty much the same but have two additional characters for the publisher. As the publisher is not relevant to identify the Wikidata object we should be fine with a four to five characters long universal Nintendo Game ID attribute. The exact one that is printed on the game packaging, disc or cartridge. As I am not that familiar with Wikidata, do you think we could add that? Or is an external resource to link to necessary? I mean we do not invent these ids here, they are used by the manufacturer. Regards Emberwit (talk) 11:21, 12 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'm pretty sure it's technically possible to have an identifier with no formatter link, but I'm not sure if that's often done. The place to propose creating a property is Wikidata:Property proposal - I'm not super familiar with the procedure there, but it seems like there's a form you fill out. --Pokechu22 (talk) 17:51, 12 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Pokechu22, Emberwit: Chiming in here − thanks for the super interesting discussion above, that was a great read!

It is perfectly fine to have IDs with no formatter link. Linking is always a nice-to-have, but not mandatory. A similar situation seems to be PlayStation ID (P2606) − it is a clearly documented identifier, but as there is no one database of all of these, it is unlinked. At the same time, the ID is used as part of the scheme of PlayStation DataCenter URL (P7707), as well as by Japan PlayStation Software Database ID (P9636) (only JP releases).

So, the way I see it, there are two possibilities:

• Either there is such a thing as “Nintendo Game ID” − we should then have one property for it, even if it must be unlinked ; and then as many properties as needed for things that use a subset of the ID, such as GameTDB game ID (P8087), and I would fork out a “Dolphin Wiki ID” property.
• Or there are no such thing as a “Nintendo Game ID”, but really two (or three or else) distinct generations of IDs, then let’s have one property for each of these.

I am not as familiar as you folks on the Nintendo ID system, but I would lean towards the first option − in line with what we do with PlayStation ID (P2606). That may make for an /interesting/ regex but well :)

It is also the same with games on Sega consoles: when I found Satakore.com (Q58554589), I figured out it piggied back on the product ID system of Saturn games − or was it Sega console games? :D − see my musings at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sega Saturn game ID. In the end I back-pedalled there and re-scoped the property as only being about the Satakore database − a property for all Sega product codes might then make sense.

(This also sort of ties back to Wikidata:Property_proposal/code_produit − a proposal for a property covering all such product codes, declined, although because catalog code (P528) could(?) be used for it)

Once we (and by that I mean you ^_^) have decided what the best course of action, I’m happy to help with the property proposal process.

Jean-Fred (talk) 10:31, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply