Talk:Talk pages project/Usability

There is a prototype ready that we would value feedback on:

 

https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/e22ef06cf7/wiki/Talk:DiscussionTools

The prototype introduces two changes for people using the Vector (2022) skin:

1. The "Add topic" button appears in a more prominent location on the page (above the existing page toolbar that contains actions links like "Page," "Discussion," "Read," "Edit," "Edit source," etc.)
2. The "Add topic" button is styled differently

Feedback prompts

• What – if anything – concerns you about this proposed change?
• What – if any – ambiguity might we be able to address that would make it easier for you to evaluate this change?

PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 00:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

Nothing concerns me I'm still just learning and trying to figure this all out because I really need to get beta Angelabm38 (talk) 04:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Matma Rex, @Tacsipacsi, @Whatamidoing (WMF):

It emerged in our discussion at [[1]] that Topic Containers take data from CLDR, and since there is a mismatch between the language codes for Konkani in MediaWiki and CLDR, the localised text for Konkani is not appearing in Topic Containers. I have created a ticket to correct this in CLDR. I would be grateful if the Wikimedia community could support this ticket in any way. The Discoverer (talk) 08:12, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

@The Discoverer Hi, thank you for doing that! I don't know how to support it, but I think @Amire80 knows more about the CLDR project, so perhaps he can help. From my side as a developer, I can offer adding local overrides for the CLDR data in MediaWiki, so that we can fix the localisation without waiting for them: I've done that before for the Sorani Kurdish language in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/cldr/+/880547, and I could prepare a similar patch for Konkani if you point me to where to find the localisation data. Matma Rex (talk) 16:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Actually, I somehow never became much of a CLDR expert. @Raymond, @Nemo bis, and @Nikerabbit understand it much better than I do. Amir E. Aharoni {{🌎🌍🌏}} 18:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Matma Rex , @Amire80 Please add me as reviewer for a CLDR patch. Raymond (talk) 18:18, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Tracked in Phabricator: T347626 The Discoverer (talk) 19:32, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

This Phabricator task seems to indicate that Discussion Tools will be enabled whenever the magic word exists on the page. However this community discussion page in the Konkani Wiktionary is missing Topic Containers and Reply / Subscribe links, even though the magic word is present. The Discoverer (talk) 04:34, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Reply and Subscribe links do appear, but only in newer topics (such as Tech News: 2023-24), because DiscussionTools only recognizes the currently used timestamp format (I found two tasks about this, phab:T245789 and phab:T246047, although I’m pretty sure there’s at least one more, on which I’ve commented that this problem is not only about decade-old comments). A few newer topics don’t have Reply and Subscribe links because of the lack of user page links in signatures. (Mass message senders should get educated about the importance of proper signatures.)

Topic Containers do not work in non-talk namespaces on most wikis yet, only on German and Hungarian Wikipedias (phab:T331635); the wider deployment seems to have got stuck. If you get local consensus, I’m sure the developers will be happy to turn it on on Konkani Wiktionary as a third phase 0 wiki. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 15:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks @Tacsipacsi. I will initiate a discussion and create a ticket. Regards, The Discoverer (talk) 04:23, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@PPelberg (WMF) and Slaporte (WMF): It doesn’t work because it’s a translatable page, so when you try to transclude Talk pages project/Usability, you actually transclude Talk pages project/Usability/en (on an English-language page), and that hasn’t been updated yet – a translation administrator needs to press a button for the update to happen. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Tacsipacsi: thank you for looking into this and explaining the issue!

Can you please give the below a quick read and let me know what – if anything – I might be misunderstanding about the issue and what's needed to resolve it?

Issue

Because Talk pages project/Usability is a translatable page, the source page you are attempting to transclude from is not Talk pages project/Usability, but rather the page that corresponds to the content langauge you have set. For me in this case, that's, Talk pages project/Usability/en.

Fix

A translation admin needs to add <onlyinclude>...</onlyinclude> syntax to Talk pages project/Usability/en rather than Talk pages project/Usability. PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 22:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@PPelberg (WMF): The Fix part is incorrect in that the translation admin doesn’t (manually) add the syntax to the /en subpage, but rather pushes a button that makes the Translate extension copy Talk pages project/Usability minus the translation syntax to the /en subpage – the canonical and the only manually editable page is always the one which has no language suffix. So you did the right thing when you edited this page.

Apart from the above, your summary is correct.

(Also note you don’t need to nudge a translation admin: all translatable pages are listed on Special:PageTranslation, with the ones with pending changes highlighted near the top, so the highlighted section acts like a backlog.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 23:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

the translation admin doesn’t (manually) add the syntax to the /en subpage, but rather pushes a button that makes the Translate extension copy Talk pages project/Usability minus the translation syntax to the /en subpage...right thing when you edited this page.

Ah, okay! Understood. Thank you for clarifying this, @Tacsipacsi.

(Also note you don’t need to nudge a translation admin: all translatable pages are listed on Special:PageTranslation, with the ones with pending changes highlighted near the top, so the highlighted section acts like a backlog.)

This is the first time I can remember visiting Special:PageTranslation...what a helpful view. I'm glad you decided to share this with me.

Well, thank you to you, @Shirayuki, and @User:RAdimer-WMF for all of the wonderful help and support...Talk pages project/Impact#Usability Improvements now looks exactly as I'd intended it to 🙏🏼😊 PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 18:44, 8 May 2024 (UTC)Reply