Wikipedia talk:Twinkle

Please can you add {{Fringe theories}} to the standard installation for maintenance tags

thanks,

Daisytheduck ^{quack quack} 01:18, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

When adding a "globalize" tag, I had the "use multiple issues box" checked. To my surprise, some section tags were moved to the top[1]. This seems to be unwanted behaviour. Fram (talk) 12:24, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Just noting that our language needs to be changed in the CSD reasons, the text for G8: Categories populated by a deleted or retargeted template needs to be updated to the new WP:C4 language (see e.g. Category:Singapore political party logo templates, which I deleted under the old G8 not remembering that it had been changed to C4). Primefac (talk) 10:16, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Twinkle folks,

Could you add "C4. Unused maintenance categories" to your list of CSD criteria (see Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#C4. Unused maintenance categories)? I've been using "CSD G6 Housekeeping" as a deletion criteria for expired maintenance categories because I didn't see C4 on your list of options and I think this criteria would be more appropriate. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:31, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Merged into previous section, same request. Primefac (talk) 00:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

 Template:Advert has been nominated for merging with Template:Promotional tone. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've been noticing this issue for a while now but figured there was no way to fix it, until very recently when I managed to fix it in a script of mine. If you click a link to another page immediately after the page loads, there will often be an error message "Could not load your Twinkle preferences, resorting to default preferences". It seems like the browser (Firefox at least – haven't tested across browsers) makes all pending network requests fail as soon as navigation to a new page starts, but before JS execution stops, so the error handler still has a chance to run and display the message even though there was never actually an error.

The way I (mostly) fixed this was to add a beforeunload listener which sets a flag, and test that flag before displaying the error message. There are a few scenarios where this won't work, because a couple browsers (iOS Safari appearing to be the biggest example) don't fire the event, and it is possible for other scripts to cancel the page unload in their own beforeunload listeners. I figured not firing the event was not an issue (the error will just still show up, which is not a change), and that the chance of both having another script installed listening for beforeunload, and having the user both navigate away and also cancel that navigation in the VERY short time between the request being sent and completed is so low as to be negligible, especially for something as relatively trivial as displaying an error message. Tollens (talk) 21:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've noticed this nuisance message too. Perhaps the best way to handle it would be to convert it to a console.log() instead. Even if this message is legit, for example a person's Twinkle preferences page became corrupted, it is hard to imagine that the user would want a mw.notify() about this displayed every time they visit a page. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I had figured it was a useful message if it was actually supposed to show up – not sure, though. Reading the code, I don't think someone's preferences being corrupted would cause this particular error to fire (the "Could not load" one), since it should only happen if the network request doesn't complete normally. It would be very surprising, though, for someone to be able to load the Wikipedia page they are viewing but not their Twinkle preferences page, thinking about it further. Maybe changing only the "Could not load" error to a console.log (or .error, probably) and leaving the "Could not parse" error as mw.notify would make sense? Personally I would want to be harassed by an error message if I had screwed up my config file, but I might be an exception. Tollens (talk) 23:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sure, that's fine. I've updated the ticket to just change the load message to console.log() and not the parse message. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

If you tag an article with {{notability}}, Twinkle lets you select a subcategory, like {{notability|companies}}, which puts the article in Category:Company articles with topics of unclear notability. However, the dropdown menu is missing {{notability|organizations}}, which would populate Category:Organization articles with topics of unclear notability. I didn't notice this for a while, since WP:NCORP and WP:NORG are the same notability guideline, but it means a bunch of non-company organizations have ended up in Category:Company articles with topics of unclear notability. jlwoodwa (talk) 22:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The dropdown already has {{notability|Companies}} which displays the same template and has a description of "notability guideline for companies and organizations". However it wouldn't hurt to add it if it helps people find the correct entry. Ticket created. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

It's not just to help people find the correct entry. The issue is that {{notability|companies}} and {{notability|organizations}} aren't just synonyms – they place the article in different categories. jlwoodwa (talk) 23:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I guess the template that is visible to the user is the same because WP:NCORP combines the two. But anyway, sounds good. I've updated the ticket. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Just curious if anyone can direct to me to why the option to not notify a page creator is deactivated when applying a BLPPROD? I'm guessing it is because these are usually very new articles but I just ran across one where the creator is long-term inactive. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I followed the history of the line containing "has to be notified" in GitHub, and it goes back 14 years to the "initial import from Wikipedia". So it has been this way for at least 14 years. So the "why" is probably lost to history.

Isn't BLPPROD intended to motivate the author to add sources within 1 week to avoid deletion? If I had to guess, that is probably the reason. Kind of hard to motivate the author of an article to act if they are not notified.

This is also related to the discussion of how much to notify blocked users, which has been discussed on this talk page a couple times this year. –Novem Linguae (talk) 23:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

When deleting a file under WP:F8 using Twinkle's dated speedy deletion module, {{db-commons}} is placed on the description page. This is a redirect to {{Now Commons}}, which ideally should be given a date as parameter. (Note that {{Now Commons}} can also be placed directly on a file's description page using Twinkle's file maintenance tagging module, which does pass the date as a parameter.) jlwoodwa (talk) 01:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Jlwoodwa. Can you please provide an example diff of a correct Db-commons or Now Commons containing the date parameter, so I know how to format it? What date should it take, the date tagged or something else? –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sure, here's one I just did. Any reasonable date format should work, though, since it uses the #time parser function. Template:Now Commons/doc § Detailed gives 2010-07-01 and 20100601023255 as two examples. As for which date to use: yes, it's the date when the file was tagged with this template (Template:Now Commons/doc § TemplateData). jlwoodwa (talk) 22:40, 6 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

It took me some fiddling around, looking at other people's CSD logs to figure out that they're not manually added, but typically via Twinkle. That said, CSD logging is disabled by default in Wikipedia:Twinkle/Preferences § Speedy.

It wasn't clear to me if I needed to create User:Shushugah/CSD log manually or if it would be created automatically once setting is enabled. If automatic, are there any defaults, e.g archiving set up? Is there a good reason not to make this a default setting with automatic creation the first time an editor nominates article for speedy deletion? ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 13:31, 18 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I would support opt-out rather than the current opt-in for CSD/PROD logging. Primefac (talk) 18:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I concur, default on with opt-out makes more sense to me. KylieTastic (talk) 12:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

This is easy to code, but could get some pushback once deployed. Hopefully some more talk page watchers can chime in with their thoughts before we commit to doing this. –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

We've discussed this before: /Archive 47#csd/prod/xfd: turn on userspace logging by default. Nardog (talk) 21:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I read the older discussion, but I am not persuaded by the reasonable expectation of privacy. Any edits created on Wikipedia is irrevocably released and typically searchable by any other editors. In the current implementation, if a CSD tag is declined, that would be permanently visible in edit history of that page as well as a user's edit. If someone is so concerned about privacy, that their declined CSD tags become visible they should not engage in CSD tagging to begin with. All that said, they still would be able to turn off the logs setting and request WP:U1 deletion. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 10:23, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

In an XFD discussion, I entered a Keep !vote, and the nominator struck out the bolded Keep with an explanation. My question is what Twinkle warning can or should I issue. I gave a Level 3 warning for Disruptive Editing, but I would have preferred to give something more specific. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

More generally, if I would like to propose that a new Twinkle warning be added, is this the place to make the suggestion, or should I make it somewhere else? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Twinkle only exposes some of the standard warnings available - see Wikipedia:Template index/User talk namespace for more. Not sure if any more precise warning exists, but I think "Disruptive Editing" is very accurate if they remove an opposing !vote without a clear and valid reason. KylieTastic (talk) 18:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'd use one of the Uw-tvp* templates. "Refactoring other's talk page comments". Example: {{Uw-tpv3}}. I found it by going to TW -> Warn, then clicking on the dropdown box with all the user warnings. There's a spot to search. I typed "talk", and if that didn't work, I was going to try searching for "tpo". –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I saw "Refactoring other's talk page comments" and didn't know if striking the Keep was refactoring. Maybe I will use it next time, but maybe there won't be a next time, because I think that this is the first time I have seen that behavior, and it should be the last time.

They didn't remove an opposing !vote. They struck it. The principle is the same.

The editor deleted my warning, so they saw it and have been warned. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Twinklers,

I'm hoping Twinkle experts like Novem Linguae can answer this question (and a comment). I see an admin somehow mass-tag pages with CSD notices. Except for Batch Delete/Undelete, I thought Twinkle only worked on one article/User notification at a time. What is this feature that would allow me to tag multiple pages and, at the same time, send out multiple notifications? I've been using Twinkle almost as long as I have been editing but this is news to me.

My comment is one I have raised here several times over the years. While, when I delete a page, Twinkle will delete the Article, the Article talk page, any Redirects but NOT Redirect talk pages. I have to run a special Quarry query to find orphaned talk pages that weren't deleted by Twinkle. This seems like an easy feature to add and, if it was a concern, exempt User talk pages from this operation. But I assume that I'm not the only admin who has brought this up here so you must have some explanation for why Twinkle doesn't do this. Thanks for any answers you can supply. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:37, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

As far as I am aware, you cannot mass-tag articles. You can certainly mass-delete using d-batch, but tagging pages needs to be done on a per-page basis. Since Twinkle is semi-automated, it would be fairly easy to pull up a large list of pages and then tag them sequentially per-page.

As a minor note, you don't need to do a Quarry search to find what links to a page, just use Special:WhatLinksHere. I do agree though that catching the talk page redirects would be useful. Primefac (talk) 10:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I see an admin somehow mass-tag pages with CSD notices. Post a diff and I can take a look at how they did this.

While, when I delete a page, Twinkle will delete the Article, the Article talk page, any Redirects but NOT Redirect talk pages. Yeap, this has had a ticket since 2021. Ticket. I even wrote a patch for this once for batchdelete, but batchdelete is a lot of work to test, so I gave up on it. Maybe one day when I have more time I'll take another stab at it. No time this month though. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Okay, Novem Linguae, look at this page, the CSD C1 taggings for September 19th, September 14th or September 8th. All of them happened at the same minute, it's 7:57 am on my clock for the 19th. I've seen this before but it was seeing this yesterday that prompted my post. Maybe it's just fast fingers from a speedy editor!

As for the Redirect talk pages, it helps to know that, at least, there exists a ticket out there, it's just a low priority. But I'll now stop bringing it up here over and over again. That's something! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Those diffs do have the Twinkle tag so they are from Twinkle. Maybe Explicit can answer the question of how he tagged 7 CSD C1's in 1 minute. (We're not saying that's too fast. I think Liz is just curious if there's a mass CSD C1 tag feture in Twinkle.) –Novem Linguae (talk) 03:34, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

We'll see if he responds. I'm their least favorite person on the project. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:42, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I didn't know about that. Whoops :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Doing 7 in a minute is fairly easy to do with a task like this if you open up multiple tabs, maybe triage them, then go back and process with twinkle. Assuming they were just processing Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as empty categories I think they could have done it comfortably without pre-loading all in tabs first. Also I can't see how you could bulk tag as surely you should look at each and check it's valid, even if that check only take 2 seconds. KylieTastic (talk) 09:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC)Reply