Tosresearcher

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Paste _{Let’s have a chat.} 10:33, 3 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

 

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gerald Gurian is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gerald Gurian until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Guy (Help!) 11:18, 3 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Gerald Gurian has been reverted.
Your edit here to Gerald Gurian was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline. The external link(s) you added or changed (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Gerald_Gurian) is/are on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. If the external link you inserted or changed was to an external Wiki, then please note that these links should generally not be included (see 'links to avoid' #12).
If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 18:50, 5 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

Per Wikipedia:Overcategorization, "Note also that performers should not be categorized into a general category which groups topics about a particular performance venue or production (e.g. Category:Star Trek), when the specific performance category would be deleted (e.g. Category:Star Trek script writers)." Trivialist (talk) 01:32, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

First of all hello! About your page, while I think it's pretty good for a first page, and the references used look pretty neat and organized, I think it is a bit too small to warrant its own page... I think it would work much better as an addendum to another preexisting page that focused on a similar theme! Best of the lucks! -- IshtarDragon (talk) 10:36, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Tosresearcher - I advise you to redact your personal attack on JzG, or you will be soon researching Wikipedia's TOS as a blocked user. Carrite (talk) 15:34, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

And at the AfD - as I wrote there, "did it ever occur to you they might be lying? The website claims I have no college degree - in fact I have a BA from Yale University, a post graduate Diploma from LSE, an MSc from the University of London and several other postgraduate qualifications." Doug Weller talk 15:58, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

From the ED about page: "In other words, expect blatant, biased lies, and expect boring truths to get deleted quickly." --tronvillain (talk) 17:43, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

Sorry to have used rough talk this morning. To emphasize, I'm not against your bio existing, but you definitely need to step up the sourcing now that it has been challenged at AfD. It might seem unfair, but it's the way that Wikipedia rolls. Find three good sources and do a victory dance, fail and it will be deleted... It's a rules-based system and it's actually quite just assuming you can muster the necessary sources. Those of us who have been around a while won't even start an article unless sourcing is obviously in place beforehand. Good luck with it, seriously. —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 02:58, 8 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

Well you have good advice from User:Carrite above, and it is never fun to get beaten down in discussions like happened at User talk:Jimbo Wales and at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gerald Gurian, where too many editors pile on. But... there was in fact some support for coverage of the book series (including my effort that you kindly thanked me for), although for a separate article the amount of reviews are probably too thin now, given attention focused.

But, there's one more good avenue, which I talked around in the AFD but no one else picked up on. Namely that the material could/should be covered in a suitable list-article whose notability will not be questioned. I was suggesting a list of Star Trek fan/writers, but probably better would be a list of Star Trek-related publications and/or derivatives, perhaps including everything in print and everything in film. I'm reminded of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Replicas of the Taj Mahal which was resolved by coming up with "Taj Mahal replicas and derivatives" as a good title for the collection of buildings related to the Taj that all could agree upon as obviously valid and descriptive of the material. So some title like List of Star Trek derivatives which is to cover everything outside of the official Star Trek franchise, might work.

Often there can be a list-article corresponding to a category of similar items in Wikipedia, and/or corresponding to a navigation template, which is what Template:Star Trek is. On that template there are sections for documentary films, and the book series is like those. Hmm, there is Star Trek spin-off fiction already. Its section on "Technical and reference manuals" doesn't fit with the rest, IMHO, because a reference manual that is factually describing what is covered in the fictional Star Trek universe is not fiction itself. So "Star Trek non-fiction" or "Star Trek documentaries and non-fiction"? Hmm, there is List of Star Trek reference books and List of Star Trek technical manuals already. And there is Template:Star Trek publications. I am thinking the Gerald Gurian book series is maybe most like the reference books? Maybe a title change for the "List of Star Trek reference books" to "Star Trek non-fiction" or "Star Trek non-fiction works and writers" would broaden it acceptably to include the GG books.

The fact that the current List of Star Trek reference books is currently a bare table with just a few columns (title, year, subject(s), ISBN) is not really a problem. IMHO it obviously should have a description column carrying more substantive material, supported by references, i.e. which can pretty much carry the GG material about the books. And the list-article could include an annotated list or a table about the authors. It would be a service to fix up that list-article. The fact that it has many redlinks suggests that many of the reference books won't get separate Wikipedia articles; they should be described in their list-items and their titles should be redirects to their rows in the table.

So as i think it is what they say in Galaxy Quest, never give up! Right now it looks to me like adapting and improving the "List of Star Trek reference books" is a way forward, and Gerald Gurian and To Boldly Go: Rare Photos from the TOS Soundstage - Season One and To Boldly Go: Rare Photos from the TOS Soundstage - Season Two would be redirects into the list-article. And I have just requested a copy of the deleted article, so I/we can work with it.

I see you've been inactive for 9 days or so, and I hope you're not too turned off by it all. To you and any watchers here, what do you think of this plan?

Cheers, --doncram 22:27, 19 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

I apologize for not replying to your message earlier as some personal considerations have almost eliminated my participation in WP. As you noted, I did not get to sign on soon enough to read and/or critique your article. Yes, I do think of myself as a trekker, but also a fan of other SF shows (such as Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica {Original}). A lot of my editing time was spent on Cleveland related articles, more specifically the Cleveland Force/Crunch indoor soccer team. If you can find a way to relay that article to me, I will be more than willing to look at it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hx823 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 9 November 2016 (UTC)Reply