Talk:Pen name

Isn't it nom de guerre that is the original French expression and nom de plume just an English invention. gK 18:27, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm. But this is an encyclopedia written in English, and nom de plume has become quite accepted, no?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 22:07, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

I was specifically referring to "Nom de plume is a French-language expression". Somewhere I know I've read a detailed account with dates and references of how the original French expression was nom de guerre, then the English started using nom de plume, and eventually the French even started using nom de plume. I'm still trying to find that reference, but I know it was either in one of the debunking-style books like Tom Burnam's "The Dictionary of Misinformation" or in a book about words. If that account is true, the it should say something like: Nom de plume is a seemingly French phrase originally used by the English, and now adopted by the French. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 06:20, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Interesting thoughts. Since 'guerre' means 'war', would a 'non de guerre' be for a 'spy'? Just asking, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 23:38, 8 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

No - originally it was a common custom for people enlisting in the army in France (and other "continental" countries) to do so under a false name. Perhaps partly to conceal a criminal past, or even a former enlistment (deserters frequently re-enlisted when the money ran out) - perhaps to avoid shaming the family (ordinary soldiers had very low social status) - who can tell? Anyway, it became the custom - so much so that most recruiting officers took it for granted. Eventually "nom de guerre" became a (rather colloquial?) way of describing ANY false name - including what in English we would call a "pen name" or a "stage name". Now I am neither young, nor French - and French idiom may very well have changed in recent decades without my noticing, but Fowler (of "Modern English Usage" and other RS type sources on English Grammar) declares that "nom de plume" is actually not French at all, but a silly English affectation, based on a misunderstanding of the significance of "nom de guerre". Failing a French person reading this, does anyone have a French friend they can refer this question to? --Soundofmusicals (talk) 01:15, 9 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

The current explanation makes no sense. It claims the origin of the expression is Latin before elaborating that it was coined in England. Huh? Mezigue (talk) 09:58, 15 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

This is very old - but of course Latin has nothing to do with the case. Perhaps the editor meant "French"? In case someone is genuinely confused, "pen name" is the English term - "nom de plume" is a literal "French" translation of this that originated in England. It is thus not really "French" at all. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 01:02, 24 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

Shouldn't we leave in the repeated links? This is a list and I am assuming that a lot of people will read only part of a list--for example, they'll come looking for the real//pen name of a person for whom they know the pen/real name and will read only that one entry.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 22:07, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

General Wikipedia policy is that there usually should only be one link to another Wiki article per article. It the case of this article, many of the multiple internal Wiki links were for things like author which probably aren't that necessary and won't be used much. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 06:20, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I dunno. I was thinking that, say, for an entry for an Australian author, if the link to Australian literature is several screenfulls above, it won't help the person that comes looking one specific pen name. That's all.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 06:54, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

it should be in alphabetical order. - Stancel 12:03, 3 May 2005 (UTC)Reply

I agree --Manny 21:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

I agree too! -- Anonymous 14 December 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.26.200 (talk) 05:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

To what extent is an Internet alias actually a pen name? It's one thing for Cecil Adams, who wrote the old-fashioned way previously, but for Wonkette? I'm not saying she's not notable or anything, but it seems out of place on such a list. I think we need to make a decision here and set a precedent.

• A: Keep Wonkette on and add other notable Internet writers
• B: Remove Wonkette from the list and consider Internet aliases separate identities from pen names

Again, I've nothing against Wonkette (never read her, actually), but she seems to be the only one on the list that fits this description. --BDD 03:09, 10 May 2005 (UTC)Reply

I would add "Silence Dogood" the pen name Benjamin Franklin used at age 15. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.47.174.2 (talk) 21:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

Hi,
I would like to suggest that the “Famous pen names” section be split into a new page of its own. It is already very large and is steadily growing so it makes since to me for it to have it’s own article. I will be happy to do the work on this, but I would like to know what your opinion is on this idea before I change anything. S.dedalus 01:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)Reply

I agree completely. Sensfan07, 26 November 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.60.65 (talk) 01:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)Reply

Sounds like a good idea. Be bold. Rockpocket 05:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)Reply

Absolutely. A logical split. The bold comment was taken from my mouth before I had a chance to form my lips! Royalbroil ^T : C 00:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

I just saw this. Is there another related meaning of "pen name" that's not currently mentioned in this article, or is that nonsense (that should be reverted from the Hot Pockets article)? 188.192.112.34 (talk) 16:43, 4 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

It's someone using a term without understanding it. - Jason A. Quest (talk) 19:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

It seems to me that this article is western-centralized in the labeling of different geographical areas. Instead of 'Non-Western', 'Eastern' is a better title. Just as if western cultures have been more prominent in the use of pen-names. which isnt true. Hxasmirl (talk) 22:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

Ooh, I know, what about A. C. Crispin? She said on an Amazon.com thing that she bets everyone thinks she's a man because of the neutral initials and the science-fiction bias. Sheavsey33 (talk) 05:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Here it is: [http://www.amazon.com/A.-C.-Crispin/e/B000APVKUO/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0], although for some reason the picture on the site is of a man with a very prominent beard... Sheavsey33 (talk) 05:12, 15 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

I think some male authors use female pseudonyms when writing romance novels, no? Nil Einne (talk) 22:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

Most places where references could be added to this article seem to involve more or less well known works of literature - and to be very "verifiable", if not actually "verified". None the less, could I very earnestly suggest to anyone sincerely wishing the article to contain more citations, to add these him/her self - or, and IMHO this would be even better, leave well enough alone. Adding tags that will on past form just sit there for year after year improves nothing. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 09:17, 24 May 2016 (UTC)Reply

Revisiting this one - people who feel it is useful or clever to pepper a section (even a paragraph, or, God help us, a sentence) with "cn" tags would do well to read WP:CITENEED - especially the cautionary remarks therein! --Soundofmusicals (talk) 22:25, 24 August 2019 (UTC)Reply

Most pen names ARE pseudonyms, of course - but by no means all - an author may very well use a variant or more or less spurious form of their real name on the title page of their books. If this is not used elsewhere it is of course a true 'pen name". "Winston S. Churchill", "Captain W.E.Johns" and "J.K. Rowling" spring to mind, but there are others- some of them referred to in the article. I have fiddled the lead definition to allow for this. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 00:55, 24 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

Seems the page for Peter Saxons categorizes it as a nom de plume but this page doesn't list the name. Ok to add? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Klamactocrat (talk • contribs) 18:50, 23 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Also see original notes above. The paragraph that was supposed to correct this error was rather ambiguous (it was far from clear whether nom de plume was a back translation from French or vice versa). Hopefully this quite well referenced version is rather easier to understand. Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Incidentally, if nom de plume really HAS crept into French usage since Fowler's time this really needs a (separate) reference. Non? -Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I've removed this reference to an alternative term.

or a literary double

I've never heard this term myself, and searching only shows it used with a different meaning.

If you want to restore this to the article, please add good cites for this usage.

Thanks - 189.60.49.251 (talk) 15:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Fair enough - but in that case nor do we need to refer to the spurious "French" usage Nom de plume - at least in the lead - especially when it is well covered in the first post-lead section. Soundofmusicals (talk) 00:19, 6 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

Latest comments == Nom de plume == Latest comment: 7 years ago 24.156.41.89 (talk) 13:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Nom de plume- update Latest comment: 7 Nom de plume

Latest comment: 7 years ago ago Nom de plume

Latest comment: 7 years ago 24.156.41.89 (talk) 13:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

P 24.156.41.89 (talk) 13:31, 7 July 2024 (UTC)Reply