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Talk:Glass Joe

Latest comment: 5 months ago by 39.50.250.162 in topic I don't know about High-importance
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Good articleGlass Joe has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 4, 2011WikiProject peer reviewReviewed
May 20, 2011Good article nomineeListed
May 25, 2011Featured article candidateNot promoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 17, 2010.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Glass Joe is considered one of Nintendo's most iconic characters, and has been used as a term to signify failure or weakness?
Current status: Good article

I don't know about High-importance

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Latest comment: 5 months ago5 comments4 people in discussion

Perhaps Mid? I mean, there are more important topics out there than Glass Joe to say the least. –MuZemike 06:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

I see your point, though I feel that what he represents makes him of high importance. Like how Donkey Kong is high importance [if I recall correctly] for being iconic to the Mario series as being his first villain and basically the icon of that game, Glass Joe is basically the icon of the Punch-Out!! series, being used as a metaphor for weakness and ineffectiveness as well as being called one of the weakest characters in video game history. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:18, 2 September 2010 (UTC)Reply
It's a bit odd that the Punch-Out!! game articles are of mid importance at best, though, while Glass Joe is of high importance. --Grandy02 (talk) 09:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)Reply
Shouldn't the NES be high? First licensed video game, called one of the most famous sports games of all time, etc. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:43, 3 September 2010 (UTC)Reply
I would consider mid-importance because he is not well-known in gaming outside of the Punch-Out!! seies. 39.50.250.162 (talk) 23:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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Latest comment: 13 years ago40 comments2 people in discussion
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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Glass Joe/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk) 09:32, 15 May 2011 (UTC) ]Reply

I think it's worth noting that I have not played these games, so I am very much coming to this with fresh eyes.

Sorry for being so critical. While the referencing and research on this article are very good, the writing and formatting are not really up to scratch. I appreciate that this is the case, but it reads very much like it has been put together from passing references here and there, and that does not make a good read. I hope you're able to work on my suggestions and reorder the article/smooth out the prose, because this article does have potential. Everything you need for GA status is there, it just needs some moulding. J Milburn (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

The more critical the better. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:59, 15 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I was thinking that this had FAC potential. Ping me on my talk page when you're ready for me to take another read through. J Milburn (talk) 11:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I think that I fixed all concerns in terms of flow. At the very least, I'm hoping that the remaining problems are few and easily fixed. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 00:22, 17 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

I've requested that the lead image is cleaned up here. If you're able to do that stuff, then go ahead- if not, I've found the Graphic Lab to be very useful in the past. J Milburn (talk) 16:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

Second read through

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Ok, it's starting to look more ordered. I'm copyediting as I'm going.

  • There's more to be said in "Concept and creation". Who designed the original character for the arcade game? More should be said about his weakness, and his role as the intro to the game, and more should be said about the other French stereotypes- expressos, baguettes, croissants, etc.
    • I'll make the weaknesses and stereotypes stronger elements of the creation section. As for the arcade version, I initially was unable to find a proper reference, but I realized that there was a reference that did not mention Glass Joe, but said that Miyamoto made the designs for the arcade games. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 22:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • Oh, I see now that you've included some of that information in the next section. Perhaps mention there about how he's very weak, acts as an intro to the game, etc. I just feel his role in the game and the concept should be fully explained before we get onto his impact.
  • Am I right?
  • "Harris discussed him again in another article and wrote that he "crumples to the floor if a housefly lands on his chin".[22]" This sentence feels a little out of place.
  • "Glass Joe has received criticism for his weakness." I don't really see how you're categorising many of these as criticism. "Game Informer's James Cowan called the fight against Glass Joe a "total joke".[39]" is clearly being critical of the game, and so that is definitely worth mentioning, while the others just seem to be joining in the "hahah, look how rubbish this guy is" thing, which is what he's meant for.

The section on the cultural impact is good, and, yes, that's the important bit, but I think we still need a bit more concerning the in-game stuff and his design. This is getting there, no doubt about that, but if you're interested in taking this to FAC, I'm happy to stick around and keep poking. J Milburn (talk) 11:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

Definitely interested in FAC; I want to get the Four Award. However, as much as I would like to, I really cannot add much to his in-game stuff without venturing into guide content. In his games, outside of the cutscenes and a few things about his weakness, Glass Joe is just a boxer - there isn't much to be said about him. Basically, Glass Joe is almost an icon more than he is a character. He has no side-game or side-projects (aside from a couple very brief unsourceable appearances in a comic and cartoon). - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ok, I'm happy to promote now. I do feel that the article has greatly improved during the GAC. I think the writing is probably still a little choppy in places for FAC; I'd strongly reccomend finding a copyeditor to look at the article with fresh eyes before sending it to FAC. PresN (talk · contribs) may be a good person to ask- he's experienced at FAC, and video games are his area. Feel free to drop me a line if/when this is sent to FAC, and I'll give it another look. Thanks, and good luck! J Milburn (talk) 16:07, 20 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

More reviews

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Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Sorry I couldn't make it sooner, but I don't think the outcome of the FAN would have been different with my comments. Here's some suggestions.

  • If you decide to include the katakana version of his name, the transliteration "Gurasu Jō" should be included, as the plain English word rule is no longer active.
  • Would reword the second sentence to "He first appeared in the arcade game Punch-Out!! in 1984, and three years later made his home console debut with the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) game of the same name."
  • "In these games, he is the first boxer players fight and is decidedly weak" -> "In the aforementioned games, he is the first boxer the player fights, and hence the weakest."
  • "He was originally designed by Shigeru Miyamoto in the arcade game." -> "The character was originally designed by Shigeru Miyamoto for the arcade game."
  • "Makoto Wada revised Glass Joe's appearance for the NES version, while Eddie Viser redesigned him once more for the Wii game; the character was voiced by Christian Bernard in the latter."
  • Removed "including freelance writer Sumantra Lahiri" in the lead.
  • Don't know what "ineffectual nature" means, what its connection to French stereotypes is.
  • "The stereotype was expanded when the developers of the Wii game, Next Level Games, introduced Glass Joe's love for luxurious things, such as gourmet coffee, by means of a series of cut scenes before the match with him." -> "The stereotypical characteristics of Glass Joe were emphasized even more by the developers of the Wii game, Next Level Games. For example, they included cutscenes that depicted the character as a lover of luxurious things, such as gourmet coffee."
  • Reword or remove "Other critics commented on these stereotypes, including editors for GamesRadar and Retronauts" (no contextual significance).
  • "He is considered an icon of Nintendo" -> "Glass Joe is considered an icon of Nintendo, and"
  • Remove "He has been used as a symbol for weakness by critics from media outlets, including Wired, UGO Networks, Nintendo Power, and TeamXbox." (this implies that the character is often cited as a symbol for weakness in unconnected articles, which I do not assume to be the case).
  • "His name has also been used by sportspeople to comment on either a specific sportsperson or a kind of sportsperson." -> "His name has also been used as a negative title attributed to sportspeople as a consequence of their poor performances."

That much for the lead. Skimming through the rest of the article, I noticed repeated words ("He was designed by Shigeru Miyamoto in the original Punch-Out!! arcade game, and was redesigned") and grammatical errors ("designed in" instead of "designed for"; "He design is notably skinnier than the player-character Little Mac's"). Will probably give a more thorough review next week. Prime Blue (talk) 19:59, 27 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

I care too little for fictional characters to give a thorough review, so I applied the copyedits as I went over the article. Just revert what you don't like. I had to switch many sentences to make the sections read less arbitrarily. Additional musings:
  • Where does that bit with the one win, 99 losses record come from? The IGN source reads like a made-up story. If this does not come directly from Nintendo, it should be removed. If it does, the origin should be specified.
  • The quote "Make it quick... I want to retire" does not exactly demonstrate cowardice and weakness. Furthermore, the referenced article does not state both these characteristics to be stereotypes of French people.
  • I can see where you're coming from with the second non-free image, but it needs a stronger fair use rationale and caption if you want to keep it.
  • It is not clear what Chris Buffa meant with "a fighting chance" (either that he should be stronger or a playable character himself). This should be clarified or omitted.
  • The critical comments in "Cultural impact" are not part of the character's cultural impact. Similarly, I think the whole reception section could be handled or grouped differently somehow, as everything is sort of overlapping and kind of random there.
  • "have been discussed by critics such as writer Sumantra Lahiri and Eurogamer's Oli Welsh". Discussed in what way? Should be clarified or omitted.

Prime Blue (talk) 11:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)Reply

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