Talk:Basque nationalism

I do not understand why ETA is not referred as a terrorist organization, because that is what it is (it places bombs, kills cold blodedly, blackmails businessmen...) and that is how is natinally defined in Spain.

I trully do not understand why that term is widely avoided in Wikipedia.

Umm . . . where can I find the population? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.57.229 (talk) 15:20, 27 April 2012 (UTC) ...Reply

In response to the above paragraph: ignorance or sympathizers. Either answer is very worrying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.153.23.108 (talk) 17:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

No, it is called neutral point-of-view, which differs from Spanish point-of-view. O Fenian (talk) 17:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

Heh, Spanish point-o-view. How many people have to kill ETA for the English wikipedia consider it a terrorist organization?. 1000, 2000, 3000?. Aaaah, Wikipedia, the place where the most amazing minds (in a titanic collective effort) are devoted to discussions about the sex of angels ignoring the most elementary common sense; nice, nice place :). Is this the legacy that are we leaving to future generations? ... so, so creepy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.19.170.163 (talk) 06:51, 30 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

I do belive that the basque blood line carrys itself to be a profund infucance on how the basque act. I have even seen how people will almost take on these triats of basque nationlism being around them. I also have seen and experance a very strong sense of basque national in half basque breeds. I am finding more and more that people will reject the basque and clam to desinate that they are french or spainish. My father never once siad he was anything but basque around me.

And who are you, perhapps one of the yesterday hooligans in Real Madrid tema? or a xenophobic more of the long Spanish list?Idiazabal 14:18, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Changes to make it a little more neutral are necessary:

HOw can you talk about basque nationalism and not even mention the founder of present day nationalism SAbino ARana. I added" The maximun ideologe of the present Basque Nationalism is Sabino Arana founder of the Basque Nationalist Party. Arana following the romantic and racist views of the end of the XIX century, created an ideology centered in the purity and supremacy of the basque raze, ultracatholicism and opposition to the migration of other spaniards to a Basque Country starting the industrial revolution." Also the mythical idea of the fueros as view by Basque nationalists is presented as a reality:Basque nationalism is a movement with roots in the Carlism and the lost in 1876 of the old regime privilegiated relation of the Basque provinces with the crown of Spain when the Spanish government revoked the fueros. The fueros acted as part of the Basque legal system, but mainly designated the relation of the Basque Provinces with the crown. The fueros were given by the early kings of Castile to signify their special realtionship with the Basque Provinces. That relation was significant because the Basque Provinces were the only provinces of future Spain that joined Castile by their own request and helped Castile in the reconquista and to overtake Navarre. The Fueros gave Basque citizens a unique position in Spain with special tax and political status; additionally, Basques were not subject to direct levee to the Castillian army, although many volunteared specially in the navy.

What you say doesn't jibe with Navarre keeping its Fueros. --Error 01:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)Reply

Well, each fuero as you know was different and the Basque Provinces and navarre were not the only areas that had fueros. The fueros of the Basque Country came very early as part of the voluntary union of the Basque Provinces to the Crown of Castille. The fueros of Navarre were quite different in their relation with the crown. They came originally as a relation of the king of Navarre with the population of his kingdom, when Navarre was added in a dinastic dispute to the other crowns of Spain the fueros remained as the relation of the crown with the people of Navarre. Anyway your edits are fear enough for me.

Also I will like to point that both the Basque provinces and Navarre kept their fueros,lost long before in other parts of Spain and Europe, to such late period of history because both were very loyal to the Crown of Castille- the Basque Provinces only- and then Spain.

I removed this unsourced piece:

Franco of course, had no intention to destroy a heavy industry controlled by him, that's self-explanatory. The final aim of creating a small independent and Vatican-linked state was not achieved.

I don't understand this:

(the believing peasant or unsophisticated basis)

POV:

Persons who dare to say that the "philosopher-warriors" of ETA behave sect-like, or degenerated into a mafia-style organisations are eliminated. ETA has to its "credit" to have killed over 1.200 persons, injured many more, and forced or "convinced" 150.000 basque citizens (non nationalists) to leave their own country during the 80's to the 90's.

Like in all sects there are "wise" guys who control finances and policy, and the more ideologized or fanatic "basis" in charge of executions or terrorist acts [ekintzas], of controlling the members of ETA in prison and their families, demonstrations and administrative matters (including international propaganda, mostly in Belgium, France, Ireland, USA, Central and South-America).

--Error 01:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)Reply

I'm not great at editing pages. Does anyone know how to remove the big white space at the start of the article? Codu ^(t)⁄_(c) •  02:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

I suspect it's been caused by a simplification of the Template:History of the Basque people. So cautionarily I'm reverting that change.

Not sure what exactly was, so I restored the original format of the template... and it worked! --Sugaar 07:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

Just found some articles in this regard: Should this be put somewhere here? http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=175123 http://www.france24.com/en/20080809-thousands-march-spains-basque-region-independence http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/366332/1/.html Lihaas (talk) 05:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

That ideology -Basque Nationalism, I mean- was born in Bilbao, a liberal town. In spite of the oft-repeated Spanish nationalist legend, Basque nationalism is heir as well to the so-called liberal "fuerismo", that stood for self-government. To begin with, all the ideologies have roots in Carlism. The PP and PSOE and their media supporters are rife with people of Carlist and Traditionalist stock (Barrionuevo, Iturgaiz, Del Burgo, Rabanera, Carnicero, Javier Pradera, etc). Biscayan socialism perhaps is more related to the Carlist miners from Somorrostro valley than to the idealized "liberal militia men from Bilbao". The Communist "La Pasionaria" was daughter to a Carlist , and the Anarchist Dr Isaac Puente too. The Basque Nationalist anachronistic opinion on the carlist wars as a sort of Basque uprising against Spain is sheer nonsense, O.K., but this article's reference to the "Carlist roots" of Basque Nationalism is biased and unfounded. Arana's father was carlist...and his uncle was liberal,so what?

Hello, Etxerat is an organisation supporting Basque prisoners with alleged or convicted offences related to politics. They do not deal with Basque people who have committed common offences. Sorry this is NOT RESEARCH, this is like Coke is a fizzy drink. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 16:41, 14 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Iñaki what you say is completely false and you know it. To prove that Etxerat has being supporting prisioners convicted because of terrorist actions I will give you an example. Jon Agirre Agiriano, which has been for years in the Etxerat list of political prisioners, was condemned 30 years ago for the murder of 3 people, one of them a child of 13 years, José María Piris. This proves that what they call political prisioners are just terrorist being condemned for it, and this denomination is just a distortion of the reality to support abominable acts of terrorism. Etxerat usually organices acts in favour of this "political prisioners" and what they constantly show are fotos of people accused of terrorist murders. It is the same as if the hateful guy that shoted Gabrielle Gifford says that he did that action moved by his political ideas and calls itself political prisioner, and a whole organization ask for its return to home. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.75.140 (talk) 08:00, 15 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

O my. Ok, so IRA's attacks were not politically driven? PKK's in Turkey? They were just street gangs, hardened criminals intent on destroying a peaceful society? Ask their victims or the national media of these countries, they will tell you yes, they were so. Same examples almost everywhere. Come on, this is not about your feelings. I understand that whoever has gone through a terrorist attack or strongly sympathises with them can see/feel their assailants as nothing more than beasts (this is valid for all types of terrorism), but let's not add to the tense atmosphere living in Spain against any effort made to move on. Coming back to the centre of discussion, Etxerat can be defined with international perspective as an organisation of relatives and friends supporting Basque prisoners and fugitives with convictions or charges related to politically driven offences. Granted, quite a long definition but an accurate one. Iñaki LL (talk) 17:59, 15 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

This is not about my feelings. Maybe I have explain my opinion in a wrong way. What I have been trying to say is that we cannot consider terrorists as political prisioners because they are not the same. Prisioners that are in jail just for their terrorist acts cannot be consider as political prisioners, because this means that they are in prision just because they defend their ideas and this is not the reason for the prisioners defended by Etxerat. If they wouldn't have kill people or support people that is killing others they wouldn't be in prision, furthermore there are people in the basque country that defend the same ideas but in a democratic way and they are not put in jail because of it. There is a very clear distinction between a terrorist and a political prisioner and it doesn't depend on the motivation of its actions, both defend their ideas but the first in a democratic way and the second doing terrorist actions. So, as, for example, Jon Agirre Agiriano cannot be consider a political prisioner and in fact it is a terrorist condemned by it, we can assume that Etxerat is not supporting political prisioners but terrorist prisioners. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.75.140 (talk) 20:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

There is a crime that has been for common reasons and there is a politically driven one. The term terrorism is all the more controversial to use if we bear in mind the extension this term has taken in Spain - youngsters attacking or burning property, members of parties and whole parties, journalists of closed down newspapers, ETA or politically driven Basque prisoners released from prison and harassed by the police or other groups/individuals, harassed and menaced relatives of murdered Angel Berrueta after the 11-m attack, people reported by anonimous individuals and charged who feel defenceless, squatters, relatives of the above prisoners economically drained for having to travel hundreds of Km several times a month. The term terrorism is not a recommended term (NPV) in Wikipedia, for all the right reasons. Iñaki LL (talk) 22:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

Dear Iñaqui, please, feel free to delete the term 'terrorist' in the September eleventh article, so as you say in your last post, terrorist goes against neutral point of view. I hope you will do it ASAP, and defend your opinion, facing the foreseeable outraged corrections, with the same demagogic gibberish you used in this discussion page. All your mendacious points that you refer to as falling into the category of terrorism in loose way, as if it was in force by a Spanish legislator whim, have their equivalent in the American legislation (the place where according to your profile you live). Go ahead and burn a star spangled flag in SF, in front of the police let’s see what happens…

ETA and its entourage are common criminals that claim to have a politically driven excuse, same as Al quaeda, Montoneros, Sendero Luminoso, Red Brigades, etc... The sooner you accept that incontrovertible truth, the sooner you will be able to redirect your energy to higher and more praiseworthy causes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.172.67.38 (talk) 13:57, 21 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

this article is more white washed than slavery in the united states

Would it be agreeable to start Draft:Basque autonomy that would be focused on the political movement for further autonomy (and independence) of the Basque country?

This could be a similar page to Catalan independence movement (Catalan nationalism), Galician independence movement (Galician nationalism) and Corsican autonomy (Corsican nationalism). Titus Gold (talk) 22:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Draft started. Please feel free to edit and/or add comments. Thanks Titus Gold (talk) 16:42, 11 October 2023 (UTC)Reply