Talk:Moskal

"In Poland Moskalik [1] also refers to a short rude poem similar to a Limerick, usually describing funny or embarrassing things happening to a Russian."

It's obviously not true at all. "Moskalik" is a humourous short poem about a prejudice concerning any nationality or social group. And actually 99% of them are not about russians. Its name derives from a fragment of the antirussian poem "Polonez Kościuszki" from 1831 which says that anyone who thinks that "moskals" are brothers to poles should be shot, and its construction is a parody of this poem. It goes like that:"Who will tell me that (here goes the name of any nation or social group) are (here something that is considered untrue about this group)(and there goes a describing of the punishment that should be given to the guy who said the untrue statement) It is also usually not rude but humourous. Sorry for my poor english but the fragment should be changed because it is a complete misunderstanding of what "moskalik" is.

From Ukrainian perspective, "moskal" is someone who is a Russian citizen (Rossiyanin). A person from Russia. Katsap, on the other hand, is a Russian-aligned person. It's like "vatnik", but sans the patriotic sentiment. An Ukrainian citizen freely conversing in Russian in, say, Kiev, and not wanting to switch to Ukrainian with their conversant, could be called a katsap. --198.58.174.165 (talk) 14:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)Reply

It defines Moskal as "derogatory Polish nickname for the Russians" but says nothing about terms use in Baltic states. --Kyng (talk) 08:44, 8 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Kyng: I've moved the reference to 'Polish' and tagged the 'Baltic States, etc.' for a reference. I'm not going to remove it as there have, of course, been long term Russian ties to the Balkans. Certainly, Eastern Orthodox Serbia enjoyed a positive relationship with Russia, but they were only one ethnic group (and religious group) to be found in the Balkans. There was, and still is, an extremely negative view of Russians amongst other ethnicities therefore, while I can't vouch for the use of the term, I don't find it dubious enough to remove it. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:49, 8 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Iryna Harpy: Did you just mix up Baltics and Balkan? X) --Kyng (talk) 16:30, 9 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Kyng:   Facepalm You bet I did! That's what you get when you work on about 4 articles simultaneously (particularly when they're about very disparate subjects)! Obviously, my brain went 'buh'. It makes me wonder whether the person who sneaked it in under the cover of a real source (as often happens, but I couldn't be bothered checking the history to see who and when this was done) was confused over the same B vs B? Not to worry: it's been removed, and I've been deservedly chided for not paying attention to my regions and ethnic groups. Thanks for noticing it and bringing it up here! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:15, 10 October 2016 (UTC)Reply

In case of reverting my edit: the word "moskal" mentioned in the book by Alexander Mikaberidze (the research area of this historian is far from Belarusian linguistics) with the definition "and present day ethnic slur ... used in Belarus and referring to Russian" is actually Russian (from "москаль"), not a Belarusian word ("маскаль" = "maskal"). So I've clarified the statement that this word is ethnic slur in Russian (not Belarusian) language. As known, because of Russification Russian is in use of Belarusians along with Belarusian language. --Kazimier Lachnovič (talk) 12:41, 21 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

• Here are some examples of use in reliable sources (dictionaries and mass media in Belarusian language) of the name "maskal" (Russians) and the derivative scientific terms "maskalizacyja" / "abmaskaleńnie" / "abmaskalvańnie" (Russification) and "maskalizm" (Russianism) without any ethnic slur connotation:

1. Publication of Dr. Prof. Nina Barščeŭskaja (w:en:University of Warsaw) (2009, w:en:Polskie Radio) (text with "maskalizacyja")
2. Publication of Dr. Prof. Nina Barščeŭskaja (w:en:University of Warsaw) (2010, w:en:Polskie Radio) (text with "maskalizm")
3. Publication of Dr. Prof. Nina Barščeŭskaja (w:en:University of Warsaw) (2007, w:en:Polskie Radio) (text with "maskal")
4. Publication of Dr. Prof. Lidzija Savik (w:en:Belarusian State University of Culture and Arts) (w:en:Narodnaja Volya (newspaper) Nr. 17—18, 3.02.2009. P. 6) (pdf with "maskalizacyja")
5. Introduction to the dictionary by linguist w:be-tarask:Юрась Пацюпа (2008) ("maskalizm" as accepted abbreviation).
6. Etymological dictionary of Belarusian (Volume 6, 1993, p. 245—246) by the w:en:National Academy of Sciences of Belarus ("maskal" without any mention of slur)
7. Belarusian-Russian dictionary of Dr. w:en:Jan Stankievič (Vilnia, 1921, p. 5) ("abmaskaleńnie" as Russification)
8. Belarusian-Russian dictionary of Dr. w:en:Jan Stankievič (NY, 1989) provided by the w:en:Library of Congress [1] (a scan with "maskalić", "abmaskalić", "abmaskaleny", "abmaskaleńnie", "maskal")
9. Belarusian-Russian dictionary by w:be-tarask:Сьцяпан Некрашэвіч (Minsk, 1925), the founder of the w:en:National Academy of Sciences of Belarus (236. "maskalizm", 237. "maskal", 238. "maskalka")
10. Russian-Belarusian dictionary (scientific terminology of literary work) by w:en:Yanka Kupala, the greatest Belarusian-language writer of the 20th century (5. "maskalizm")
11. Publication of Dr. w:be-tarask:Вячаслаў Ракіцкі (2001, w:en:Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) (text with "maskal")
12. Publication of writer and journalist w:be-tarask:Сяржук Сокалаў-Воюш (2013, w:en:Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) (text with "maskal")
13. Publication of linguist w:be-tarask:Юрась Пацюпа (2009, w:en:Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) (text with "maskalizm")
14. Publication of linguist w:be-tarask:Юрась Пацюпа (2009, w:en:Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) (text with "maskalizm")
15. Publication of Dr. w:pl:Siarhiej Szydłouski (2000, w:en:Nasha Niva) (text with "maskalizm")
16. Publication of w:en:Ales Bialiatski awarded by w:en:Right Livelihood Award (2002, w:en:Nasha Niva) (text with "abmaskaleńnie")
17. Publication in the oldest Belarusian newspaper w:en:Nasha Niva (1998) text with "abmaskalvańnie" + statement, that "maskal" is the historical name of Russians in Belarusian language, without any insult to them)
18. Publication of Dr. Prof. w:be-tarask:Леанід Лыч (w:en:National Academy of Sciences of Belarus) (2011, pdf with "abmaskalvańnie")
19. Publication in popular science and literary journal w:be-tarask:ARCHE Пачатак (2013) (text with "maskalizacyja")
20. Publication in popular science and literary journal w:be-tarask:ARCHE Пачатак (2013) (text with "maskalizm")
21. Publication of journalist w:be-tarask:Глеб Лабадзенка (2012, w:be-tarask:ARCHE Пачатак) (text with "abmaskalvańnie")
22. Russian-Belarusian dictionary by w:be-tarask:Сьцяпан Некрашэвіч (Minsk, 1928, republished in 2014), the biggest and the most fundamental Belarusian dictionary before w:en:Russification (gives "maskal" as Belarusian translation of "Russian", "abmaskalvać" — "to russificate", "abmaskalvańnie" — "Russification")
23. Explanatory dictionary of w:en:Nasha Niva (2007, Volume 2, p. 522) by the w:en:National Academy of Sciences of Belarus (according to the dictionary, Belarusian "maskal" means Russian without any negative connotation)
24. Electronic spelling dictionary by modern editorial office of w:en:Nasha Niva (2001, zip) ("maskalizm", a scientific term w:en:Russianism).
25. Belarusian-Russian dictionary by lexicographer w:be-tarask:Мікалай Касьпяровіч (Viciebsk, 1925, p. 31) ("maskalism" as Russianism)

• Moreover, according to the publication of Dr. w:be:Уладзімір Уладзіміравіч Агіевіч (w:en:National Academy of Sciences of Belarus) a Belarusian term "maskalizacyja" is even more correct than an alternative "rusifikacyja" for Russification (Albaruthenica. Nr. 13, 2000, p. 72, which are the proceedings of the scientific center related to the Belarusian Ministry of education).
• --Kazimier Lachnovič (talk) 11:06, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Moskals destroying Kyiv.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:38, 7 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I've never heard the word Chazar for Russians in Czechia. (Most of folks even never herd the word Chazar at all.) Most common ethic slur for a Russian is Rusák. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xmedeko (talk • contribs) 17:33, 15 April 2022 (UTC)Reply