Talk:March across Samar
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removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
editI've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
- This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
- There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
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Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
External links modified
editHello fellow Wikipedians,
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- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080402103747/http://www.bibingka.com/phg/balangiga/default.htm to http://www.bibingka.com/phg/balangiga/default.htm
- Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.filipinoamericans.net/balangiga_massacre.shtml
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Tone
editReading through this article, its tone is very problematic. Off-bat, I can cite a few: 1. It does not reference the March across Samar as part of a larger war being waged between the Philippines and America 2. It makes mention of animist tribes without mentioning that the bulk of the Filipino resistance is (was until 1899 when guerrilla tactics were endorsed by the Republic) organized under conventional means. 3. It continually refers to the Filipino forces as rebels and not as agents of an invaded state
This article needs a lot of work, is what I'm saying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.126.152.34 (talk) 06:39, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
Apportionment of content between articles
editI looked at Battle of Balangiga § Retaliation today and noticed this content:
Food and trade to Samar were cut off, intended to starve the revolutionaries into submission. Smith's strategy on Samar involved widespread destruction to force the inhabitants to stop supporting the guerrillas and turn to the Americans from fear and starvation. He used his troops in sweeps of the interior in search for guerrilla bands and in attempts to capture Philippine General Vicente Lukbán, but he did nothing to prevent contact between the guerrillas and the townspeople. American columns marched across the island, destroying homes and shooting people and draft animals. Littleton Waller, in a report, stated that over an eleven-day period his men burned 255 dwellings, shot 13 carabaos and killed 39 people.[3]
The Judge Advocate General of the Army observed that only the good sense and restraint of the majority of Smith's subordinates prevented a complete reign of terror in Samar. The abuses outraged anti-Imperialist groups in the United States when these became known in March 1902.
The exact number of Filipinos killed by US troops will never be known. A population shortfall of about 15,000 is apparent between the Spanish census of 1887 and the American census of 1903, but how much of the shortfall is due to a disease epidemic and known natural disasters and how many due to combat is difficult to determine. Population growth in 19th century Samar was amplified by an influx of workers for the booming hemp industry, an influx which certainly ceased during the Samar campaign.[4]
Exhaustive research in the 1990s made by British writer Bob Couttie as part of a ten-year study of the Balangiga massacre tentatively put the figure at about 2,500; David Fritz used population ageing techniques and suggested a figure of just more than 2,000 losses in males of combat age but nothing to support widespread killing of women and children.[5] Some American and Filipino historians believe it to be around 50,000.[6][7] The rate of Samar's population growth slowed as refugees fled from Samar to Leyte,[8] yet still the population of Samar increased by 21,456 during the war.
American military historians' opinions on the Samar campaign are echoed in the February 2011 edition of the US Army's official historical magazine, Army History Bulletin: "...the indiscriminate violence and punishment that U.S. Army and Marine forces under Brig. Gen. Jacob Smith are alleged to have unleashed on Samar have long stained the memory of the United States’ pacification of the Philippine Islands".[9]Other possible concerns aside, it seems to me that most of that content has a closer relationship to this article than to the Battle of Balangiga article. IMO, this needs attention. I'll try to participate, but I'm really busy at present with off-wiki concerns.
Discussion? (I'll mention on the talk page of that other article that I've raised this here) Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:01, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
References
- ^ Karnow, Stanley. "Two Nations". PBS. Archived from the original on 4 April 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-31.
- ^ Bautista, Veltisezar. "The Balangiga, Samar, Massacre". Archived from the original on 26 February 2008. Retrieved 20 March 2008.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
nebridawas invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Bob, Couttie. "Searching For Death In Samar". Retrieved 2011-12-11.
- ^ Fritz, David L, Before "The Howling Wilderness": The Military Career of Jacob Heard Smith, Military Affairs, November–December (1979), p. 186
- ^ Young, Kenneth Ray, "Guerrilla Warfare Revisited", Leyte Samar Studies, XI:1 (1977), pp. 21–31
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
dumindinwas invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ US Senate Committee Hearings "Affairs in the Philippine Islands" February 3, 1902, Vol. 3, p. 2341
- ^ Hendricks, Charles, Editor's Journal, Army History Bulletin, PB 20-11-2 (No. 79), p. 2
Very POV lead
editThe title itself is already problematic, but it's especially inappropriate that the lead mentions all these minutiae about the operation and the few US soldiers that died but not the thousands of Filipinos that were killed. Certainly this should be the main focus of the article. Prinsgezinde (talk) 12:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Rearrangement
editI found this article to be confusingly arranged, and I've WP:BOLDly rearranged it. These were major changes, and need a look by other editors. The following is a rough list of my changes:
- The lead image had noting to do with the lead content, so I moved it to a point in the Backgtound section where the content related to the image.
- I removed the paragraph describing the post-massacre visit to Balangiga from Basey as having not much relevance here.
- The Background section concentrated modtly on General Smith's outrageous orders and on Marine Major Wa;;er's not executing those orders literally. I moved the Arrival of Marines section into the Background section ahead of that.
- I retitled the arine operations on Samar section as Marine operations and incorporated that into the Background section following the previous content there. I placed a {{tl|More citations needed]] in this section.
- I moved the paragraph about the Judge Advocate General to the end of the Marine operations subsection.
- I inserted some additional subheaders into the Background section.
These changes put the article content roughly in chronological order and put the parts of it preceding the march described in the lead section into the Background section. I've also done some minor rewording here and there. Please improve them as needed. and/or discuss below as needed. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:30, 16 September 2024 (UTC)