Talk:Polish złoty

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. It seems unlikely that consensus in favour of moving is going to arise any time soon. The two supporters cited several sources that left off the diacritic, while the many opposers preferred consistency with other subjects keeping the diacritics. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 03:33, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Polish złoty → Polish zloty – The official English form is "zloty", without the character "ł", which is difficult to produce if not using a Polish keyboard TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 11:17, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 18:03, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. Wikipedia main title headers for entries delineating national currencies (of countries that use the Latin alphabet), should retain whatever accents and diacritics the local language uses for those currencies. An English-language redirect that dispenses with accents and diacritics will attend to any uncertainties. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:10, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TheCurrencyGuy and Roman Spinner: Notify current participants. Steel1943 (talk) 18:04, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose and speedy close. The only East Europe article title anglicised by simple diacritic stripping on en.wp is the retired female Serbian tennis icon, no evidence that this currency is a blonde tennis player. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:26, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Polish National Bank, the CIA World Factbook, page 138 of the World Bank's style guide, and ngram results all beg to differ and do not agree with this exoticism.TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 23:06, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. Polish złoty already has a redirect from Zloty. Wikipedia style says using diacritics is the right thing to do. Bayonet-lightbulb (talk) 01:10, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. WP:TRANSLITERATE says "The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage, e.g. the non-anglicized titles Besançon, Søren Kierkegaard, and Göttingen are used because they predominate in English-language reliable sources". Few if any English sources use "złoty". TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 02:02, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I am honestly confused, nobody has offered up any part of the style guide saying the use of diacritics is correct in this instance. On the contrary all evidence in the style guide suggests it is not advised, yet there are comments asserting it as fact without providing any evidence at all beyond facetious statements about tennis players. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 02:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose per In ictu oculi—blindlynx 13:49, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • And what do unrelated Biblical quotes have to do with this matter? TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 03:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • @TheCurrencyGuy [User:In ictu oculi] is one of the users who made an opposing argument. blindlynx is saying that their vote is for the same reasons as elaborated prior. ReGuess (talk) 15:11, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment The facts of the case seem to be very simple to me if one ignores the blatant filibustering attempts citing unrelated Biblical passages and tennis players:

  WP:TRANSLITERATE states "The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage, e.g. the non-anglicized titles Besançon, Søren Kierkegaard, and Göttingen are used because they predominate in English-language reliable sources, whereas for the same reason the anglicized title forms Nuremberg, Delicatessen, and Florence are used (as opposed to Nürnberg, Delikatessen, and Firenze, respectively). ". Nowhere does it say that diacritics must ALWAYS be used, only when they are predominantly used. Even the Polish National Bank does not use the diacritic on their English website.TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 04:08, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. I took a quick look around online, and I found that most dictionaries and websites use the "Zloty" spelling. For example: Britannica, XE.com, European Central Bank. Not to mention, Wiktionary ALSO prefers the spelling "Zloty". See how wikt:złoty is listed as an alternative form to wikt:zloty. ಢೠೊೠಃಈ (talk) 15:35, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. I agree with Roman Spinner above. Gatepainter (talk) 15:42, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. We have a mission to broaden the minds of visitors: mono-culturalists need to know that there is a big wide world out there. The currency is not a zloty, it is a złoty. There is a redirect article Polish zloty and Zloty that redirect here and so deliver most readers to where they want to go. (And you don't need a Polish keyboard: a decent keyboard mapping will give you a ł using AltGr+l.) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:48, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is entirely contrary to the principle of WP:COMMONNAME. The letter "ł" is superfluous exoticism as it is not part of the common name in any English sources, not even those published by the Polish National Bank. Users of the English Wikipedia expect articles to be written in English. If you insist on "złoty" then do you also insist the national qualifier should be changed so it reads Polski złoty?. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 19:27, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Using that logic, it should moved to Polish guilder, which is basically what złoty means in English! WP:UE does not mandate slavish translation into English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:49, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • But that is not the WP:COMMONNAME in English, while "zloty", without the diacritic, IS the common name. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 13:03, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. Common name. Nothing is that difficult to reproduce using a computer. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you provide any evidence at all that the diacritic is the WP:COMMONNAME in English?. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 13:04, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I decided to see if any English sources use "złoty" in ENGLISH, I found that none at all do, not a single source anywhere. Quite the contrary the overwhelming torrent of evidence is that "zloty" is used in English in all circumstances.

• European Central Bank
• Polish National Bank
• Euronews
• Reuters
• Encyclopaedia Britannica
• The CIA World Factbook
• The World BankTheCurrencyGuy (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Along with that, Wikipedia also states that "Złoty", in English, is an alternate form of the spelling "Zloty". Look at Zloty & Złoty. Both Wikipedia & Wiktionary are bound under the same entity - that being Wikimedia. This is obviously a problem when it come to being consistent across all Wikimedia sister projects. If we decide to keep this article in the spelling "Złoty", then we need to change the corresponding Wiktionary page accordingly. ಢೠೊೠಃಈ (talk) 19:25, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia's mission is to reflect, not to assert, and emphasising "złoty" over "zloty" as the "correct" English term is a bold assertion which appears to lack any substantiating citations. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 19:40, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But Wiktionary does emphasis "Zloty" over "Złoty", and the Wikipedia article should reflect that by switching to "Zloty" for cohesion across sister projects. ಢೠೊೠಃಈ (talk) 19:56, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was talking about Wikipedia's use rather than Wiktionary's. I do agree entirely. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 20:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. See Łódź for a similar case. See Ł for a discussion. If spelled as Zloty most English readers will pronounce it as "Zlot-y" whereas złoty is pronounced "Zwot-y". The Ł changes the sound from "l" to "w". Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I doubt most English speakers are even aware of what sound "Ł" is supposed to represent. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 03:38, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]