Talk:Paleolithic flute

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The near perfect round shape is another point of suspect, as most, if not all ancient holes were not so perfect. the Jiahu flutes from China display the same problem. I do not believe that these holes were drilled in the ancient time.

I have no idea what the above comment actually means. Is the suggestion that, somehow, there is an international conspiracy of hole drilling to hide the "fact" that music isn't ancient? Really?! Gingermint (talk) 02:28, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest music instruments found in Geißenklösterle Cave, article on BBC News 25 May 2012. --Robkam (talk) 21:41, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That already in the article since the day before:-)--Kmhkmh (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The lead here unequivocally states, "These flutes represent the earliest known musical instruments and provide valuable evidence of prehistoric music. The presence of these flutes demonstrates that a developed musical tradition existed from the earliest period of modern human presence in Europe.[1]" The reference is to a New York Times article which states, "an article published online by the journal Nature, Nicholas J. Conard of the University of Tübingen, in Germany, and colleagues wrote, “These finds demonstrate the presence of a well-established musical tradition at the time when modern humans colonized Europe.” I recommend citing the original article "New flutes document the earliest musical tradition in southwestern Germany" at http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v460/n7256//pdf/nature08169.pdf. since that's the primary source of the quote. I suggest the lead be revised to include brief discussion of, and references to on-going controversy among scholars about these flutes. I do see the author has written, later in the article, "However, other scientists have argued that the holes are the result of the bone fragment having been chewed by an animal rather than by human design.[3] I suggest a statement to that effect should be in the lead.

I also suggest being careful to distinguish between the Divje Babe Cave "flute" and other Paleolithic flutes. There are considerable distinctions between the artifacts themselves as well as the characteristics of the sites in which they were found.

RE: the Divje Babe Cave "flute", the author might cite ‘Neanderthal bone flutes’_ simply products of Ice Age spotted hyena scavenging activities on cave bear cubs in European cave bear dens _ Open Science.pdf http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/2/4/140022 and ‘Neanderthal bone flutes’_ simply products of Ice Age spotted hyena scavenging activities on cave bear cubs in European cave bear dens _ Open Science.pdf at http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/2/4/140022 and/or "MOUSTERIAN MUSICIANSHIP? THE CASE OF THE DIVJE BABE I BONE," Iain Morley, Oxford Journal of Archaeology, Volume 25, Issue 4, pages 317–333, November 2006

RE: flutes from Hohle Fels, Vogelherd and Geißenklösterle, there's a good, brief write-up that may help you at: http://archaeology.about.com/od/boneandivory/qt/ancient_flutes.htm.

Jacques Bailhé 18:26, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Why not add a mention to this article of the bone flute with five holes on the front and two on the back, which was excavated by M. Mercier, the mayor of Peyzac-le-Moustier, from a rock shelter in the Roque Saint-Christophe, a rock formation located near Peyzac-le-Moustier, Canton of Vallée de l'Homme, Arrondissement of Sarlat-la-Canéda, in the Vézère Valley of Dordogne (formerly called Périgord), Nouvelle-Aquitaine, southwestern France, between the Loire Valley and the Pyrenees, the northern part of the historical region of Aquitaine. This artifact, which has been dated to c. 32,000 years ago, is associated with the transitional period between the late Aurignacian and early Gravettian cultures of the Upper Paleolithic period/Late Pleistocene. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 14:33, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we could also create a page for Neolithic flutes, as some bone flutes dating to the Neolithic period have been found in China. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 22:50, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]