Talk:Chrysler Saratoga

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I have reverted 93JC's deletion of "instrument clusters" from the list of differences between North American-market Dodge Spirits and international ECE Chrysler Saratogas, 1989-1994. The differences aren't major, but they are present: The US cluster has a "BRAKE" warning lamp, while the ECE cluster has the ISO symbol for parking brake/brake failure (the last production run of US clusters had both the word and the symbol). The speedometer is calibrated and marked differently on the ECE cluster than it is on Metric versions of the North American cluster, as well. Scheinwerfermann 02:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My very own Spirit ('90 Canadian-market ES V6) has the ISO parking brake/brake failure light. 1992-1995 Canadian-market Spirits featured the same 220 km/h speedometer as the Saratoga.--93JC 03:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Likely a later-production replacement cluster in your Spirit (there were three different TSBs related to early IP failure on the '89-'90 AA-bodies); the '90s in North America did not have the ISO symbol on their original-equipment clusters. And no, your car does not have the same 220 km/h speedometer used in the Saratoga. You've got a 220 km/h speedo, but it is not the same 220 km/h speedo. There were circuit board differences as well, related to the different turn signal wiring.Scheinwerfermann 04:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have to trust you on the speedometer. Seems like a waste of time to have two completely different 220 km/h speedometers, but it doesn't surprise me. But my instrument cluster is bone stock, so on that point you're nuts. :p --93JC 13:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not a waste of time to have two different 220 km/h speedometers; ECE regulations treat speedometer calibration differently than North American regulations do. (NB there was also a 200 km/h speedo and a (scarce!) 240 km/h speedo for these cars.) Owned your '90 since new, have you?Scheinwerfermann 14:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a waste to have two different sets of regulations. It's hard to believe two different sets of calibrations are needed, yet quite easy to believe they exist. Know what I mean? I know there's a 200 km/h speedo: mine has one. Didn't know about the 240 km/h though. The Spirit has been in the family since new, so although it hasn't been mine per se I do know its history, and it never had the instrument cluster replaced. Besides, I'm pretty sure that set of warning lights is a separate overlay, not integral to the rest of the gauges.--93JC 19:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The US is the perpetrator on the different-regulations front. Every other country in the world uses ECE regulations. The US keeps their own not because their regulations give better safety performance (they don't) but because they provide the US automakers with a hidden trade barrier to competition from outside the market. Several Wiki articles deal with this topic. Thought you said yours has a 220 km/h speedo. The warning lamp panel is part of the instrument cluster bezel; the actual gauges and light bulbs are on the rear housing, which can be separated from the bezel.Scheinwerfermann 20:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1995 it is. Source of info: actual-vehicle VINs from 1994 and 1995 European-market Saratogas. Running these VINs through DC's build record database reveals them to have been built as Saratogas, not converted from US-market AA-cars. It appears Chrysler International largely stopped advertising the Saratoga after 1993, which is a little bizarre given that they were still making the cars, but isn't too far out of line with US practice: The Spirit and Acclaim were promoted in '89, '90 and '91, and somewhat in '92, but almost not at all in '93, '94 or '95. Scheinwerfermann 01:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The information that 1960 was the saratoga's last year untill the re-badged euro model in 1989 is incorrect. The Saratoga was available for purchase till at least 1964 as the Canadian model of the Newport/Windsor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhamzkull (talk • contribs) 01:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chrysler of Canada continued to use the Saratoga name from 1961 through to 1965. The 1961 model was the same as the U.S. Windsor while the 1962 was a Windsor/Newport with U.S. 300 interior trim. The 1963-65 Saratoga 300 models were basically the U.S. 300 series with some trim differences, especially in 1964. For 1966 the Saratoga 300 became the 300, although the Canadian 300 used Windsor taillamps. Body styles in all years were 4-door sedan, 2-door and 4-door hardtops. The U.S. 300 convertibles were imported 1963-66 but sold as 300 and not Saratoga. And contrary to what some U.S. writers claim, the 1965 Saratoga sedan was not the 6-window model (Town Sedan), but the 4-window model as used by Polara and Windsor. (Chrycoman (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]