User talk:Jua Cha

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Jua Cha, I'd like to invite you to an upcoming edit-a-thon:

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FYI, there is consensus not to present racial and ethnic data from the 2020 Census in the same manner as past censuses, due to differences in methodology. There seems to be consensus to present the data in table form, such as this or this. Bneu2013 (talk) 09:00, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bneu2013, thanks for this message. I've seen that some editors are using a tabular format, and I certainly haven't changed those existing edits, but I have not seen any actual discussion or consensus that this is the preferred format for newly added 2020 demographic data. If you are aware of such a discussion, could you please provide a link?

I have no objection to presenting numbers in tables, but I do find it concerning that the example tables you linked appear to exclude Hispanic/Latino people from racial categories, when the 2020 census, like those in 2010 and 2000, treats Hispanic/Latino as an ethnic or linguistic category distinct from race (see Race and ethnicity in the United States census). The 2020 census questionnaire explicitly says "Hispanic origins are not races." This distinction is not new and dates from 1997, according a Census FAQ page. So I haven't seen any reason to categorize 2020 race/ethnicity data in a different way than in past years, especially in a way that seems to collapse the intentional distinction between race and ethnicity in the Census Bureau's methodology. If we must use tables, I think the correct approach would be to present entirely separate tables for racial and ethnic categories, since they are entirely separate questions on the census questionnaire. Jua Cha (talk) 13:22, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a discussion from about a year ago about this topic. There seems to be a narrow consensus not to present racial/ethnic data, table or not, in the same manner as previous censuses, due mainly to the fact that the 2020 census saw an exponential increase in the number of people identifying as multiracial, and the fact that the census bureau seems to be moving away from lumping the multiracial population into one single category. The bureau actually advised against direct comparison of 2020 data to 2010 and 2000 data for this reason. Also, while Hispanic and Latino are technically not a racial category, most reliable sources refer to the racial categories in terms of the non-Hispanic population only, and ignore the racial identification of Hispanics and Latinos, which seems to change significantly with every census, and can give an inaccurate portrayal of a regions changing demographics. Although I haven't seen a concise discussion about it, most users now seem to prefer the table form when presenting census data. The paragraph form largely dates back to a single editor shortly after the project's establishment. Bneu2013 (talk) 02:40, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for linking that discussion, it is informative. I see that the concern there was about how to represent the growing number of people who identified with two or more races. The solution proposed in the discussion was a table with separate "alone" and "in-combination" columns for each racial category. That could be helpful. But looking at the live examples you linked above (Los Angeles County & Fulton County), neither is using multiple columns as proposed in the discussion. They just list the single race counts, with a separate row for mixed-race populations, just as the older prose format did in text. I agree with you that comparison between censuses should be done with caution, but I don't think switching to a tabular format necessarily prevents such comparison — indeed, the Los Angeles County example you shared even puts the 2020 results side by side with previous census data in the same table. Thinking about this, prose might actually be better at avoiding direct comparison, because it could allow for a nuanced explanation of multi-racial identities and methodological changes, rather than expecting readers to correctly interpret numbers in isolation. Of course, I acknowledge I haven't included such nuanced explanations in my past edits. I will hold off adding any more 2020 racial/ethnic demographics for a while though and see if a better solution emerges. Jua Cha (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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