Template talk:Hawkeye

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A film category is needed in this section. Hawkeye will feature in that film. How much we don't know but his role as an Avenger will be the same as it is in the comics - important. This has to be worth mentioning. If it's not, then links to the three animated references should be removed as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caged halo (talk • contribs) 15:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Navboxes and The Avengers.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:06, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First pass...

• "Successors" changed to "Other Hawkeyes" - Bishop is a successor, McDonald isn't, and Bullseye usurped the title.
• "Teams" removed since we generally don't put teams in the navboxes as it results in a mess at the foot of the articles. WCA relocated to Related for the time being.
• "Allies" changed to "Supporting characters" and pruned. Standing practice has been to limit this the solo stroies and nod all the "team mates" in.
• "IOM" removed since none of those are "Hawkeye" or "Hawkeye and..."
• "Storylines" changed to "Publications" and reduced to those with "Hawkeye" in the title or one of 2 or 3 main characters.
• "Related articles" has 3 moved to "Other aliases".

- J Greb (talk) 20:10, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I readded "Solo Avengers" to the publications section as Hawkeye was the main character for almost the entire run of that book. -Fandraltastic (talk) 20:23, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough - J Greb (talk) 20:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass...

I'm seeing a bad trends with the "Enemies"...

• Crossfire and Trick Shot, looking at the articles, look fine;
• Death-Throws looks like a slight stretch of a "generic Marvel villain group";
• Swordsman is a re-purposed Avengers character; and
• Albino, Bobcat, Bullet Biker, Javelynn, and Phantom Rider are all 1 shot/minor characters.

Swordsman really shouldn't be here. And is it worth keeping the 5 minor characters?

- J Greb (talk) 20:32, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In my mind the Enemies section could be limited to Crossfire, Trick Shot, Death-Throws, and Swordsman. As you said, Crossfire and TricK Shot are clearly fine. The Death-Throws have made several appearances as enemies of Hawkeye, but looking through it, every Death-Throw character has their own page. In my mind they should be merged into the Death-Throws page and left as one in the enemies section.

As for Swordsman, his negative influence was the basis of Hawkeye's origin and even after Swordsman became an Avenger his feud with Hawkeye was one of the running stories and he was never truly "good" (he betrayed them, which had been his intention the entire time). He then returned to being Hawkeye's arch-nemesis for about a decade before briefly redeeming himself.

I'm not sure what to do with the minor characters. I'm not sure they even warrant wikipedia pages; they may be better suited on a list of some sort. -Fandraltastic (talk) 20:49, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With the exception of Bombshell and Oddball, I could see tagging the DTs for a mass merge. As for the others... yeah, a "List of minor Marvel Comics characters" has a lot of potential. - J Greb (talk) 21:16, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The enemies list (I feel) should consist of Crossfire, Death-Throws, Phantom Rider, Swordsman and Trick Shot. Phantom Rider could be considered a minor character but I feel it's a continuation of Lincoln Slade's story and therefore important to Hawkeye's history. What do you think? I agree that the others should be trimmed down (even though I created most of them). I would be happy to create a "List of minor Hawkeye enemies" article. Albino, Bobcat, Bullet Biker and Javelynn (along with several other characters I have in mind) could be merged into one page.-Caged halo (talk) 13:11, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I removed Albino, Bobcat, Bullet Biker and Javelynn from enemy list. These articles should be deleted, but as I'm fairly new to Wikipedia I'm not sure how to go about it. I will leave it to the experts to start proceedings. Barney Barton has been moved to enemies following his appearance in Hawkeye: Blindspot #1-2. I have also created a "List of Hawkeye characters" that summarizes the character's supporting cast, allies and enemies. -Caged halo (talk) 12:37, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work on the template and the new list article. I readded Black Widow to Supporting Characters. They had notable partnership, Hawkeye's name appears 19 times in the Black Widow article and 11 times vice versa.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But has she ever really been a supporting character of his? During their partnership, he was her sidekick, and they were both villains in Iron Man's book. She's only appeared in Clint's solo titles as often as he's appeared in hers, and never as a recurring feature. If the list was changed to "partnerships" it would be more accurate. 71.193.194.210 (talk) 07:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Half way agree - Black Widow has not been a supporting character in a Hawkeye strip or series. But "Partners" is as problematic as "Teams" in character centric navboxes. - J Greb (talk) 21:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would have to agree. Black Widow doesn't belong on the supporting characters section. The only characters, strictly speaking, suitable to be added are Mockingbird and Dominic Fortune (for his supporting roles in Hawkeye & Mockingbird #1-6 and Widowmaker #1-4). Characters like Steve Rogers and Black Widow have featured numerous times in Hawkeye's solo titles but always in guest appearances. - Caged halo (talk) 14:24, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I re-added her. Frankly, any Hawkeye no box that doesn't mention the Widow is pretty darn incomplete; they're histories are well entwined, and fundamental to the characters' histories. While listing her as "supporting character", which does by its title imply an ongoing role in a solo series, may not be the best choice, the only other place would be at the very bottom in the "related" area. It's a bit tough for Hawkeye as so much of his publishing history has been as part of the Avengers, and there for in a team book, but if this navbox is to cover the history of a character that is increasingly well known (and going to become ridiculously so next year), the Black Widow must be mentioned. oknazevad (talk) 16:24, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Long and Short:

• Please refrain from continuously re-adding the link - You were Bold, it was Reverted, allow the Discusion to see if there is a consensus to include it.
• If the box would have to explain the inclusion to that extent, the inclusion is worthless as the link is very,very tenuous.
• "Supporting characters" should be limited to those characters that intrinsically linked to the topic character and routinely appear in a supporting role in stories focused on the topic. Black Widow doesn't fall under either of those. (Neither for that matter does Dominic Fortune.)
• The navbox deals with the character when used as a solo character. If it becomes hard to find articles that are specifically linked to Hawkeye in that respect, then the existence of a navigation becomes questionable.

- J Greb (talk) 18:47, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I only added the link once, not having noticed this discussion; I commented once I saw it, to explain my edit. I'm well aware of BRD.

As for the substance of the Widow's inclusion, the issue I have is that the Widow is strongly connected to Hawkeye as a solo character. Her links to the character predate either's membership in the Avengers. So while it's been a while, all of Hawkeye's earliest stories have the Widow in them. To omit her because they're old a) doesn't present the entire history of the character, and b) strikes ms as a little bit WP:RECENTISM. oknazevad (talk) 18:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I miss read a part of the edit history.

As for "recentism" - I believe it's a case of the early Avenger's stories that included Hawkeye also included Black Widow. Sorry, but the weight here is that as a solo character Black Widow is not a supporting character. That he was introduced and appeared as an Iron Man villain for 3 issues prior to his joining the Avengers and that Black Widow also appeared in those issues in a similar role is minor at best. Inclusion here implies more than that or requires an explanation in the 'box which is inappropriate.

- J Greb (talk) 18:50, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It just seems to me that not mentioning her in any fashion makes the box incomplete. But I will defer for now, and hope for some additional opinions. oknazevad (talk) 14:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Black Widow is not a Hawkeye supporting character. But she is very important to the history of Hawkeye. Does that warrant a mention in the RELATED ARTICLES section? Caged_halo (talk) 02:15, 04 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just posing the question if the article warrants inclusion in this template. The article is not about the character per se nor is it a critical analysis of the character but of the use of women in comics . The article even states that Hawkeye was arbitrarily chosen. Thoughts?--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• I added it because while he was sort of chosen at random, it does seem to be something that gets mentioned fairly often in correlation with him right now. I also remember seeing something to where one of the current artists for the series made a mention of this when it came to drawing artwork for one of the upcoming issues for the series. If it's a case of too soon then I don't terribly mind it getting removed. It's just that he's the character they draw in and the thing is named after him, so it just seemed like a fit. It's already in a "see also" section on the article, so it is already mentioned in the article.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 15:34, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]