Talk:Zij

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Kennedy also used the term "astronomical tables" in A Survey of Islamic Astronomical Tables. Do you think it would be worthwhile to generalize the article on Zijs to include the various other kinds astronomical tables (Greek, Indian?) and rename it to Astronomical table? Cheers, —Ruud 22:45, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kennedy is calling them "Islamic astronomical tables" in the title. As he explains in the text, though, a zij is not just a table as it includes a number of tables together with directions on how to calculate using them, and may also include observational data and an explanation of how the tables were derived from it. If you want to make an article on astronomical tables in general, I would suggest starting a new one at Astronomical table rather than moving the Zij article. Spacepotato (talk) 23:43, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In "Toomer, Gerald (1990). "Al-Khwārizmī, Abu Jaʿfar Muḥammad ibn Mūsā". In Gillispie, Charles Coulston (ed.). Dictionary of Scientific Biography. Vol. 7. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons. ISBN 0-684-16962-2. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)" and its bibliography zijes are also referred to simply as "astronomical tables". Toomer translates zij as "set of astronomical tables" (probably in a loose sense, not excluding additional material). Given this would you agree that perhaps Islamic astronomical tables would be a more descriptive title for most readers? —Ruud 01:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In accordance with WP:COMMONNAME, I think zij is the correct title for the article. Spacepotato (talk) 10:46, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It would be good to include some of the better known non-Islamic tables that were closed based on the Islamic model.

Ones that I'm aware of just from WP articles might include:

• [The Tables of Toledo (1080)]
• The "Tables of the Prince" of Abraham bar Hiyya (d. 1145), based on al-Battani
• The Alfonsine Tables (after 1252)
• The tables of Jacob ben David ben Yom Tov (1361) (= the Tables of Peter IV of Aragon ?)

... and no doubt there are more (cf Hebrew_astronomy#Post-Talmudic_times).

Would these be worth including, in a new subsection for non-Islamic tables? After all, the general title "Astronomical tables" does re-direct here. Jheald (talk) 21:44, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion these and the Indian astronomical table, which the Islamic tables were initially based on, should be listed here. As I noted in the section above "astronomical tables" would then be a more appropriate title. Having a number of separate articles would also be a possibility, but would probably benefit readers unfamiliar with the subject less. —Ruud 22:33, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Many Islamic were very religious during the time. You should note that the Zij was not just only used by people interested in higher education or astronomy, but also by people that desired to use these astronomical patterns they learned to find mecca or the qibla. Nguyen.mkhoa (talk) 19:12, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Could the statement on 'incorporating heliocentrism' into the tradition be clarified? I am not too familiar with this topic but have never come across a medieval Muslim scholar who did not take heliocentrism as a given(!)--عبد المؤمن (talk) 23:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The history section states that zījes were sometimes used for astrological computations. While this is true, I believe it is necessary to clarify that this was not the intent of the astronomers who developed them. Due to conflict between religious scholars and astrologers, astronomers attempted to separate themselves from the more mystical astrology by avoiding all religious connotations in the zījes. As it is currently written, it sounds as though they were equally used for both and even intended for both.--MartinezIJV (talk) 17:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There should be some information at the top of the page - it isn't at all obvious at a glance exactly what a Zij actually is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:4A0E:3200:1E65:9DFF:FEB6:2939 (talk) 14:21, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Should be fixed now. Thanks. Wiqi⁽⁵⁵⁾ 14:51, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]