Talk:Reuben sandwich

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i can't find anything definitive about whether russian or 1000 island is more traditional. (i've always thought it was russian.)

Russian dressing is definately the original, all stories relating to the "invention" of the sandwich involve russian dressing, and both areas that claim to have invented it insist that russian is the original.

Generic Player 08:04, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ah yes, it's a lot like "Star Trek: The Next Generation". In many ways it's superior but will never be as recognized as the original. thursday

In sandwich shops near where I live (Portland), a Rachel is a vegetarian or vegan Reuben. Can anyone provide some corroboration for the other usage? If not, I'll go ahead and change it in a couple days. 71.193.152.63 01:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds good. What'd be great is if you could add a link to something that indicates that's the case (an online menu from a sandwich shop or something would be fine), to make sure the information's verifiable. --Eyrian 05:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Went ahead and changed it. Hope I didn't screw up the reference too bad, still trying to figure out the markup. unless 01:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, coleslaw and turkey makes a Georgia Ruben; I've never heard of a Rachel in my life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.177.113 (talk) 22:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To the best of my knowledge the Rachael sandwich did not exist in the suburban Boston, Massachusetts area prior to 1974. My father was in the restaurant business in Randolph, MA. He opened up his second restraurant in the area. This restaurant was a Jewish style deli called Goodies Pub. It was located on Mazzeo Drive in Randolph. I have the original menu from the opening listing the sandwich. The Rachael sandwich was coined by my father, Jerry Goodman in memory of his mother, Rachael Goodman, maiden name, Tonkin who died around 1965 and put on the menu. I have not been able to find any reference to the sandwich before this time period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drdgoodman (talk • contribs) 13:12, 24 March 2013 (UTC) Drdgoodman (talk) 13:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Monterey Jack cheese is what I'm used to in Reubens out here in the Intermountain West. Is this unusual? The Jade Knight (talk) 02:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but this page is wrong. What is called "Russian dressing" today is different than what it used to be. Thousand Island dressing is called "Russian" in the Northeast, particularly around NYC. The name Thousand Island is supposedly a newer name. It even says that the two recipes were indistinguishable in the 19th century on the Russian Dressing page. There's also two external links here and here which suggest the Russian dressing is just mayonnaise, and that both dressings grew more and more similar over the years until bottled dressing companies decided to invent a distinction.72.78.1.31 (talk) 22:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't really matter historically what the definitions may or may not have been, because the article is about what a Reuben sandwich is today, not what it was in the past. Thousand Island and Russian dressing are definitely not the same thing today.  Xihr  21:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have re-added this section with two appropriate references. I can provide many, many more as need be. The Rachel is a very real and widely served variant on the traditional Reuben, and is not, as suggested by User:JBsupreme, a "a silly variant on their menu". Based on comments on this talk page, I understand that the term "Rachel" may refer to more than one type of Reuben variant; if anyone can produce sourced evidence suggesting alternate compositions for the Rachel, please add them with the appropriate reference. As for the Arby's reference, it refers to another notable Reuben variant invented and sold by a major international restaurant chain. User:JBsupreme, based on the addition of these new references, please do not remove the sourced material without discussion this page, as removal of sourced material is considered disruptive editing. Thank you. Bullzeye ^{(Ring for Service)} 01:23, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, "Rachel sandwich" (in quotations) turns up no less than 11,600 Google hits, most of which are recipes. "Silly variant" indeed. Bullzeye ^{(Ring for Service)} 01:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with that argument is that popularity is not the same thing as notability. It may be notable for other reasons, but the fact that it gets a lot of Google hits does not make it a priori notable. And I'm afraid at least one of your sources is not reliable -- about.com doesn't qualify.  Xihr  01:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But the presence of so many recipes online for "rachel sandwich" should lead one to suppose that it is also present in many published cookbooks, any of which would be a reliable source by Wikipedia's standards. A Google Book Search should settle the matter one way or the other. -- Dominus (talk) 02:32, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[[1]] I guess "Rachel" is just a word for a variant of the Reuben. So "Rachel" is the sum and total of the variants section, in a way (if I'm right). I wish could do something smartalecky like distiguish between a "pastrami Rachel," a "turkey Rachel," a "combo Rachel," and so on, but that's not very traditional (or whatever you call this). Meh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.64.234.64 (talk) 20:00, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough if you add back the name "Rachel" but why take out "Georgia Reuben"? I've been to 48 states (and had reubens and georgia reubens in many of them), and i've never once seen a "rachel" 145.116.9.201 (talk) 23:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the increase in popularity of American food in the United Kingdom, The Reuben sandwich has become a popular dish in Café's and Diners. The Sandwich maintains the same ingredients, though under a different name. The common phrase for the reuben sandwich in England is the Sándsqwîtch (Pronounced Sand-sweat-ch). The understanding of this term is unknown, however it is believed to be a variant of the word Sandwich. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.120.181 (talk) 15:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the information for now. It appears to be personal experience, if it is notable a reliable source to corroborate the information should be easy to find. A new name 2008 (talk) 15:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The image shown at right, File:Reubensandwich.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. It has been repeatedly removed from this article, by several different editors, who all considered it disgusting-looking. Since it seemed to me that there was little use for a picture of a Reuben sandwich that was deemed to be unsuitable for the Reuben sandwich article, I proposed the image for deletion. Please see the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Dominus (talk) 14:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All the Reubens that I've had have been pastrami and sauerkraut. Is that just a New York thing? 24.47.154.230 (talk) 10:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are definitely local variations. In Miami, Madison and Milwaukee, I've always been served corned beef, not pastrami, in the name of a Reuben. (Although Milwaukee vegetarian restaurants do a fine tempeh Reuben as well.) --Orange Mike | Talk 20:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've always made mine with corned beef hash, swiss cheese, sauerkraut, miracle whip, horseradish, & mustard on dark rye.67.90.227.66 (talk) 06:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Recently an anonymous editor added a small section about a "grouper Reuben". The addition cited a reliable source that stated that the grouper Reuben was a regional specialty in Florida. Shortly after, Kintetsubuffalo (talk · contribs) reverted this addition. No reason was given. Well-sourced, relevant material should not be deleted without discussion, so I have restored the material. —Mark Dominus (talk) 17:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's your reason-it's too far afield. If it does not contain corned beef/pastrami or sauerkraut, it's not a Reuben. If I have a "grilled cheese sandwich" but substitute artichoke hearts and chewing gum for the cheese, it is no longer a grilled cheese sandwich. Not rocket science.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If your claims are true, I hope you can provide some reliable sources to support them, because the sources in the article seem to contradict you. According to the article, a canonical Reuben sandwich contains five ingredients: "layered meat, sauerkraut and Swiss cheese, with a dressing… grilled between slices of rye bread.". The extra importance you attach to the meat and the sauerkraut is not supported by the article or by its sources.

1. According the the article, the Rachel sandwich, a "variation on the Reuben", may omit both corned beef and pastrami in favor of turkey,^[1][2] This contradicts your claim that a variation on the Reuben must contain corned beef or pastrami.
2. The sources also mention a "Reuben sandwich variation" that replaces the sauerkraut with cole slaw,^[3] as the grouper Reuben does. This contradicts your claim that a variation on the Reuben must contain sauerkraut.
3. The grouper Reuben does contain "Swiss cheese and Thousand Island dressing on toasted or grilled rye bread."^[4] It therefore contains the other three of the five listed ingredients.
4. The source cited for "grouper Reuben", written by a food writer for a major newspaper, refers to it as a variation on the Reuben and repeatedly calls it a "grouper Reuben".^[4] Therefore we have a reliable source that claims that this sandwich is not in fact "too far afield" to be considered a variation on the Reuben.

So it is clear to me that the cited sources consider the grouper Reuben to be a variation on the Reuben, contrary to your claims.

I considered an argument against the addition from WP:WEIGHT. Users often try to add sandwiches to this article that are the speciality of some single restaurant, and I don't think we should keep those. But the cited source here says that this is not unique to a single restaurant, but rather that it is a regional speciality: "In Florida, … many restaurants serve a grouper Reuben."^[4] So it seems significant enough to warrant the minimal coverage that the article gives it.

If you have any further arguments that are backed up by evidence, I hope you will post them. —Mark Dominus (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see that on 26 October 2013, Kintetsubuffalo (talk · contribs) again deleted the properly-sourced material without consensus and without discussing the deletion on the talk page. I would like to remind everyone this this is expressly in violation of Wikipedia policy, and if it happens again I will report the offender to the admins. I have restored the deleted section. —Mark Dominus (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic, threaten me based on a four year old talkpage thread only involving you and me, Dominus (talk · contribs). You're a real winner...--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 03:50, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to remove the recently-added "Chicago Reuben" section unless someone adds references to show that it is widespread and well-known, at least in Chicago, or objects to the removal here. —Mark Dominus (talk) 17:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have done this; I also deleted "glosta reuben", which was attributed to a single restaurant. —Mark Dominus (talk) 16:20, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I thought Reuben sandwiches could also use mustard as a condiment instead of Russian or 1000 Island. The photo clearly shows mustard as the condiment, as it is yellow [and not pink, which is known to be Russian/1000 Island dressing]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizziiusa (talk • contribs) 16:16, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The vegan's can substitute with a vegan dressing and cheese"?

Vegan don't eat dairy as it is made from milk taken from cows, vegetarians would — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.22.96.239 (talk) 04:01, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I removed it. —Mark Dominus (talk) 08:50, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure that that sentence referred to vegan cheese substitutes, not any dairy product; it's standard English grammar that "(adjective) (noun1) and (noun2)" can be parsed as equivalent to "(adjective) (noun1) and (adjective) (noun2)," so in this case, it's the same as saying "vegan dressing and vegan cheese." But I would kill it on sight for the apostrophe in "vegan's" anyway. 184.94.112.2 (talk) 22:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Similar sandwiches were made in France, Prussia, and Austria-Hungary. Montreal improved on it by being more generous with the meat. Many of the American imitations were considered to be niggardly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.229.115.207 (talk) 16:15, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All of the photos have a huge amount of meat in them, far more than any generous serving of meat in any sandwich I've ever seen (same goes for the pastrami page). At first, I though it was a joke, like the food on "This is why you're fat". If I go anywhere in New York and order this sandwich, will I get that much meat? 122.59.225.50 (talk) 05:58, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes! Randal L. Schwartz (talk) 21:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sandwiches are a way of life in the Northeast, so (and as a Midwestern transplant I have a reasonable point of comparison), they tend to come with a rather large amount of meat. Lockesdonkey (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article says that the lobster Reuben is served in the Florida Keys, but it seems to be more widespread than that; Google News search found mentions of it in other lobster zones such as Miami, Maine, and Massachusetts; also Reno NV.

I am beginning to think that all these sections should be collapsed into a single section that says that there are many variations that replace the corned beef with various proteins, and then lists a few prominent ones, including the Rachel. —Mark Dominus (talk) 15:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]