Talk:Rapid transit in Germany

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That doesn't sound right. NRW also has U-Bahns in cities like Köln, Düsseldorf, and cities in the Ruhrgebiet.

https://www.kvb.koeln/fahrtinfo/liniennetzplaene.html

https://www.duesseldorf-tourismus.de/files/assets/pdf/broschueren/Linienplan_gesamt_deutsch.pdf

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Bahn-Linie_35_(Bochum) (which is not to be confused with a tram/Straßenbahn which the city also has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Bochum/Gelsenkirchen)

If they are not counted just because there's no agreement on how to call them, then I'd rather say that one should write "there are U-Bahn and Stadtbahn lines in several cities" without stating a specific number, because saying there are only "four" is somewhat of a misrepresentation of the actual situation. Nakonana (talk) 11:27, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there’s a lack of historically developped precision in all these terms.

However, under technical aspects most would agree that city rail systems other than those in Berlin, Hamburg, Nürnberg and München are not ‘U-Bahn’. U-Bahn has no public level-crossings, while all systems with part underground operation have outside tunnel or elevated sections.

Thus, the endorsement of calling such systems ‘Stadtbahn‘ (even for the Frankfurt system that is dubbed ‘U-Bahn’ by its operators) is senseful and helps differentiating the characteristics.

This to my humble opinion, finally, is to be separated from non-technical use of the term ‘U-Bahn‘. Colloquial use makes an underground tram ‘U-Bahn’, and a surface running ‘Stadtbahn’ a ‘Straßenbahn’, thus tram, when it just left the tunnel section.

Even operators, that use the term ‘Stadtbahn’ in official and especially technically oriented publications, do not hesitate to name it ‘U-Bahn‘ in a manner of listening to what ’the people’ say to it. Timetables, routemaps and operation information are means of communications that has to reach their targets properly. There it is of little use to struggle with terms that appear technically ’more correct’. 2A03:F580:C8CA:7D00:48BE:BC5B:FEB3:FAD9 (talk) 05:05, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then I'd say it might be worth to add a note to the "four U-Bahn systems" statement to explain that there's a variety of definitions and that the definition used here is the most strict / narrow one while in colloquial language the term "U-Bahn" has a much broader definition. Nakonana (talk) 11:42, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does Wuppertal fit somewhere on here? I know it's not a conventional system, but it is a grade separated rapid transit system that servesbtge city. It's not like it's done tourist line. Rckania (talk) 16:23, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wuppertal has a manually driven ‘hanging’ railway (monorail) that operates under tramway regulations (BOStrab). Tramway regulations also apply to the automatically operated Dortmund und Düsseldorf systems, dubbed ’H-Bahn‘ (’Hängebahn’ > ‘hanging lane’) and ’Skytrain’ (it links Düsseldorf Airport railway station with the terminals), the latter two air-tyred, the former with conventional steel tyres. The Wuppertal ’Schwebebahn’ does not hover, thus ’schweb’, at all.

Though these systems fit into the definition of ’U-Bahn‘, given the lack of public level-crossings and a completely segregated right-of-way, no one would address them in that way; there are no underground sections on these systems. The Dortmund system was sometimes referred to as ‘horizontal elevator’, in a humorist way, when it only had two stops. Branch line operation ended a senseful use of such a term.

Also, all three systems appear neither to fit the idea of tramway, nor Stadtbahn, apart from operational regulations. Well, as being a through-city line, Schwebebahn comes nearest to ‘Stadtbahn’, being a light-rail system. 2A03:F580:C8CA:7D00:48BE:BC5B:FEB3:FAD9 (talk) 05:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More and more the "U" refers to "unabhängig" and although the Schwebebahn is fully grade separated/unabhängig, many sources don't count it as metro. Since the Stadtbahns systems (with unabhängige sections) are already listed, indeed Rckania, the Schwebebahn should also be mentioned. KatVanHuis (talk) 13:51, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that 60-Euro ‘fine’ is officially an ‘increased fare’ (‘erhöhtes Beförderungsentgelt’), valid to the end of the ride. Though, riding without a valid ticket is a criminal offence under German law. This is a ruling initiated by the Nazis in 1935 that was never revised ever since. There a political movements to reduce it to an ordinary ‘infringement of regulations’, such as wrong parking is, but currently with little success. This is even more a problem, since repetitive ‘avoiding of riding fares’ can lead to ’replacement imprisonment’ (‘Ersatzhaft’), if the offender isn’t able to pay the ‘increased fare’ (plus eventual administrative payments). Which happens fairly often, because those types of offenders usually have little money at all, yet being able to pay an increased fare. Some yearly 7000 are actually imprisoned for avoiding the fare. And such replacement imprisonment is considered absurd, given the fact that it is far from being cost-effective. There is a little but rising number of transit operators that let such offences no longer officially prosecute by state organs (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/schwarzfahren-koeln-100.html). Instead they only try to get back the increased fare on civil law basis. 2A03:F580:C8CA:7D00:48BE:BC5B:FEB3:FAD9 (talk) 07:23, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]