Talk:RapCity

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. There's consensus against moving the Canadian series, and as noted, it is not the case that WP:DAB recommends adding disambiguation when two titles differ only in punctuation (in fact, that's the opposite of what WP:SMALLDETAILS recommends). There's also a rough consensus to move Rap City (BET program) to Rap City as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Cúchullain ^t/c 13:52, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RapCity → RapCity (Canadian TV series) – This was moved to the undabbed title about a decade ago, on the grounds that since the BET show had a space between Rap and City instead of being camelcased as one word, there was no title conflict. But it's now a principle of WP:DAB that if two titles differ only in punctuation or capitalization or diacritical markings, then they should still be dabbed as if they were identical. Furthermore, Google plainly reveals that references to the American series as "RapCity" without the space, and to the Canadian TV series as "Rap City" with the space, are fairly common in both directions. So for both of those reasons, this should have the disambiguator added to it, as it's not overwhelmingly more notable than the BET series — and the undabbed version should be a redirect to the dab page at Rap City. Bearcat (talk) 20:05, 3 September 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:14, 12 September 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Andrewa (talk) 20:19, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support this move 2601:541:4304:E6B0:218:8BFF:FE74:FE4F (talk) 18:24, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose current proposal; Support move to RapCity (Canadian TV program) – as per WP:NCTV and the article's own lead, this show is a "TV program" not a "TV series". Also note that, as per WP:NCTV, Rap City (BET program) should be moved to Rap City (U.S. TV program). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:43, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

IJBall since both of these support options redirect to the Canadian program, isn't that in effect Support but much prefer? In ictu oculi (talk) 21:45, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Changing vote: Oppose current proposal, and support No such user's solution, as per Netoholic. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:00, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Relisting comment: relisting to discuss preferences between the alternate titles proposed. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:14, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. WP:DAB does not say what the proposer says it says, but rather: "If the titles of two articles differ only in capitalization or the separation or non-separation of components (as per WP:DIFFCAPS or WP:PLURALPT), the articles each should contain a hatnote to link to each other." No need for a disambiguator has been shown here. All we need is a hatnote, which we have now. Dohn joe (talk) 14:39, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per Dohn joe, and move Rap City (BET program) to Rap City (and delete Rap City (disambiguation)). This is basically a TWODABS situation, and I think that the titles are sufficiently different to provide natural disambiguation; hatnotes should clear all confusion. No such user (talk) 08:43, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with this – if paranethetical disambig. is determined to be unneeded in this case, then Rap City (BET program) should be moved to Rap City, etc. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:36, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Second relisting comment: Bearcat, what makes you think that it's now a principle of WP:DAB that if two titles differ only in punctuation or capitalization or diacritical markings, then they should still be dabbed as if they were identical? This is the key issue here. Andrewa (talk) 20:19, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Er, the fact that WP:DAB explicitly says exactly that? Bearcat (talk) 03:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, it exactly says at WP:DPAGE that A single disambiguation page may be used to disambiguate a number of similar terms. [such as] Terms which differ only in capitalization, punctuation and diacritic marks. (emphasis mine). It does not say that it must be used. WP:TWODABS quoted by Dohn joe says that If the titles of two articles differ only in capitalization or the separation or non-separation of components (as per WP:DIFFCAPS or WP:PLURALPT), the articles each should contain a hatnote to link to each other. WP:DIFFPUNCT says that [readers] are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for, by such disambiguation techniques as hatnotes and/or disambiguation pages. When such navigation aids are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics, which is what Dohn joe and myself are claiming. While "RapCity" and "Rap City" are not always clearly distinguished in the real world, the proposed setup with hatnotes is efficient enough to guide the reader to the other one without having to always go through hoop of a dab page. No such user (talk) 13:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per detailed nomination, alongside a variation on IJBall's mention, above, regarding revision of the qualifier for the American series. Since the nomination proposes disambiguation by series' national identity, then, analogous to RapCity (Canadian TV series), there should be, instead of Rap City (BET program), RapCity (American TV series) at the Rap City dab page, which currently seems unbalanced — one entry with a parenthetical qualifier and the other, although it is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, without one. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 21:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • No – as per WP:NCTV these aren't "series" (i.e. with continuing storylines), they are simply music TV "programs". If diambig'ed, they must moved to RapCity (Canadian TV program) and Rap City (U.S. TV program). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:57, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose and endorse User:No such user's solution. Titles are not identical, so no need for parenthetical disambiguation. Also, since there are only two, hatnotes are fine rather than a (disambiguation) page. -- Netoholic @ 10:02, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No such user, Netoholic the fine distinction doesn't exist in Billboard - Dec 10, 1994 - Page 42 "Additionally, MuchMusic's daily programming block comprising such youth-oriented shows as "Rap City," "Power 30," ...if the experts at Billboard can't tell the two names apart how are Wikipedia readers going to? In ictu oculi (talk) 21:58, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In ictu oculi: There's no question that they are confusable: the question is whether we ought to resolve potential confusion by disambiguators, or the stylism suffices. There's no single right answer to that question, so reasonable people might disagree. Still, your ping did make me reconsider – the Muchmusic show is indeed referred to as "Rap City" all too often [1]. No such user (talk) 12:18, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per detailed and common sense nomination: two easily confusable programs, both confused and inconsistent in sources, distinguished by a stylism. Finding articles shouldn't be a stylism test or game, give both programs user-friendly user-findable titles by the bigger picture of WP:TITLE's five criteria. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:44, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• • Per WP:SMALLDETAILS, a small distinction such as punctuation (or in this case, a space) is enough to not require parenthetical disambiguation - note the examples. Both articles can reside at their exact names with no conflict. Hatnotes will direct users. -- Netoholic @ 09:43, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.