Talk:John L. Helm

	John L. Helm is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 9, 2011.
Article milestones Date Process Result March 6, 2009 Good article nominee Listed April 11, 2009 Featured article candidate Promoted January 18, 2011 Good topic candidate Promoted May 30, 2020 Good topic removal candidate Demoted Current status: Featured article

This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Politics and Government This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance). United States: Kentucky / Louisville / Governors Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Kentucky (assessed as Mid-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Louisville (assessed as Mid-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. governors (assessed as Low-importance). Politics Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Trains Mid‑importance Trains Portal Sel week 46, 2011 This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list and the Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

"The following year Helm resigned because of differences with the board of directors over a proposed branch that would extend the line to Memphis, Tennessee." I'd love to know what those differences were, because there's no way to know if he favored or opposed the extension, and hopefully the clash could be summarized with the same brevity as it is described vaguely. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The body of the article goes into substantially more detail about this issue, which was a little complicated. It also makes it clear that Helm supported the Memphis branch. I'd like to work that fact into the lead, but right now, I'm drawing a blank as to how to do it without making a seriously awkward sentence. Several sources seem to imply that there were other issues between Helm and the board, but none of them detail what they were. According to a local expert in Hardin County with whom I have exchanged emails, many of the records of the L&N were destroyed in the Ohio River flood of 1937; perhaps more details would have been contained therein, but they are now lost to history. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 03:18, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I should have scanned the article first, I suppose. You write in fine inverted-pyramid style, summarizing and then expanding. If I can't think of an elegant and brief way of inserting the summary, I won't presume it's a needed change. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll list these as I come across them.

"Helm's personal fortune was exhausted as a result of the war." I'd love to know what caused that. The destruction of his crops? Separation from his farm? Slaves who left and didn't work the ground? If possible, a short summary would be interesting. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Again, there are some more details in the body of the article. The destruction of the crops contributed, no doubt, but the primary factor seems to have been that the courts were not in session during the war, so Helm had no way of earning a living. Providing for such a large family (including slaves) during a five-year war when you are considered by many to be siding with the enemy has got to be a drain on the old finances! The Biographical Sketch mentions that federal soldiers encouraged the family slaves to abandon Helm, but there is no indication whether they actually did so. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 03:22, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. I'll read through the rest before revisiting that one.

Next, though, there is "Helm was re-elected to the state House in 1827 and 1830, then served consecutively from 1833 to 1837." I can't tell if this means he just took a break of one term and then was elected twice more, or if he was appointed in 1833 or some such. I think it would be better to use the same terms to describe both periods of service rather than be unclear about the way in which he gained office. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:14, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good call. Fixed. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 21:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But going back to the part about his finances, it reminds me of my curiosity about the federal troops serving in the area where he lived. Many readers might not realize that Kentucky, though a slave state, remained loyal to the Union. Perhaps we should point out that is why there were federal soldiers serving nearby; also, if you have the information, it would be nice to know what fort they operated from, or which Army group, etc. That information could be stated briefly. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All I can locate with regard to this is that the arresting officer was a Colonel Knox. I don't even have his first name, and there is no one in Category:Union Army officers that fits. Maybe I'll ask around at WP:MILHIST. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 21:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"He called for spending on internal improvements ..." As a reader I'd love to know what an internal improvement was in 1850 or so.

In 1850, internal improvements consisted mainly of turnpikes, railroads, and constructs to make rivers more navigable. None of the sources I have are really very specific about what improvements he supported, other than a mention from Owen that he supported "railroad building". At this point in Kentucky history, it was almost redundant to say that a Whig supported internal improvements. Internal improvements were a major pillar of Henry Clay's American System. So if there was a proposed canal, railroad, dam, road, etc. to be built, the Whigs probably supported it. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 21:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"... election reform." What was his idea of election reform? This enquiring mind is very curious, and it's too easy for readers to throw the template of modern notions across terms that, applied to past ages, sound alike but refer to radically different ideas/concepts/events/etc. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I looked specifically for this and couldn't find it. The most explicit statement so far is Owen, who says Helm wanted "to curb widespread voting irregularities and violence at the polls". Maybe something more concrete will be in the Morton article, if I can get my hands on it. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 21:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, as noted above, you've written this with an excellent introduction that summarizes his life, followed by an itemized expansion. Forget expanding the information in the intro, I should have scanned this thing first. I would still like to hear something about the troops who harassed him, if it's possible to say where they operated out of; it might not be. Most of all, my last two points I'd like to see addressed: what internal improvements Helm wanted, and what his election reform constituted. Other than that, a most comprehensive article! I really hope it earns FA status soon. --Preston McConkie ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these additional suggestions. I'll address them as best I can as I continue to seek a couple more sources before nominating for FA. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 21:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One bit Don't know if this would help or not. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]