Talk:Iteration mark

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I never saw this rairaishuu 来々週 word. Its also not in the koujien (広辞苑). Isnt it 再来週 - the week after next week? Diotti 12:31, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're right that it isn't in the kojien dictionary. However, I found it in another dictionary, "gendai kokugo reikai jiten", as an example under "rairai", along with another example, "rairai gakunen". So it's a legitimate word. --DannyWilde 02:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What about other languages? Some scripts for south-east Asian languages have iteration marks, too. If they're not added, the article should be moved to Japanese iteration marks. —Babelfisch 07:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They're used in Chinese too (same mark as Japanese). I think other languages' marks should be added to this article.121.1.178.241 (talk) 02:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added Thai and English usages. I've also generalized the opening sentence to remove language specificity. Wikky Horse (talk) 03:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can some1 please add a stroke order diagram for 々. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.194.141.170 (talk) 00:36, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine it would be the little "no" ノ, then the "ma" マ. Please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). Moocows rule 00:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

what is: "〻"

saw it on the caption on the bottom image. Murakumo-Elite (talk) 05:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to be the VERTICAL IDEOGRAPHIC ITERATION MARK (U+303B), a variant of 々. See [1]. I've replaced it with the normal mark though, since that's what the image uses as well. Jpatokal (talk) 07:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a version of the Kana iteration mark with handakuten (ゝ with circle)? Perhaps that should be added to the article, either way. (Stating that there is no such thing if there isn't.)--ospalh (talk) 12:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't, as far as I can tell. Handakuten only appears with the h-series, and usually only under restricted conditions (such as hardening due to gemination). — Gwalla | Talk 17:20, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's what i thought. Of course i've just recently started learning Japanese. The question is, can you "tell" with enough confidence to put something like "There is no iteration mark with a handakuten." into the article?--ospalh (talk) 08:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC), 08:34, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I could cite anything. — Gwalla | Talk 20:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, such a beast certainly doesn't exist in Unicode: [2] Jpatokal (talk) 04:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find "ゝ", "ヽ", "ゞ" or "ヾ" in your list. But Unicode supports your view, it's not in this list either. On the other hand, Unicode is not the last word about what characters exist. There has been a ẞ (capital ß) for decades, but that was added to Unicode just recently. Very rare and basically not used is different from nonexistent.ospalh (talk) 14:06, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can this mark appear in the first place of a single line?--刻意(Kèyì) 08:55, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

With Japanese language, the iteration mark cannot be used as the first character in line and this will be correctly rendered in most word processing and DTP software. However, if it's used as a part of pronoun, such as Isuzu (a car company) it may be used although it will be usually avoided because it looks awkward.--Revth (talk) 01:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of examples currently seem to have missing characters. Look at two of the last three examples in the Japanese section under Repeating multiple characters, at the end of the second last paragraph, just before the bit about Unicode. Can you see it too? - Egmonster (talk) 22:26, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In Ditto Page inside the Sumary Box (upper left) "Double Prime" symbol is refered like being "Different from" and the notation symbol indicated is "Quotation Marks"x2 or "Right Quotation Marks" while on this page (Iteration Mark), at Ditto Mark part, the symbol refered is "Double Prime". - User:lpanades (talk) 10:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Imaginatorium - I think you've misunderstood what I meant by "uncountable". It's not relevant that Japanese has no grammatical number, because that doesn't change the fact that all nouns have a grammatical number in English, whether they're borrowed from Japanese or not, and that's still true even if the plural form is the same as the singular form. For example, "kanji" is countable ("one kanji is...", "two kanji are..."), while "hiragana" and "katakana" are (usually) uncountable ("hiragana is a writing system"), but they can also sometmes be countable if referring to specific kana. "Okurigana" is a countable noun, because it refers to specific kana. I don't think the default assumption should be that it's uncountable until proven otherwise, really, given countable nouns far outnumber uncountable ones, and it has nothing to do with the word's morphology. Theknightwho (talk) 23:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, sources which treat it as a countable noun are really common: [3]. Theknightwho (talk) 23:24, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simply adding "are" to your search isn't very helpful in determining the usage. For example, the first result says: Verb and adjective endings, called okurigana, are written in hiragana and enclosed in parentheses. (doesn't show countability at all but equates 'okurigana' with 'endings'). The second agrees with you. The third says: The okurigana are “伊” (subject particle i), “己止” (koto), “弖” (te, a variant form of 底), “尓” (ni), and “奴” (nu). (countable but plural because there are multiple of them in the sentence analysed and one is written with two characters; and these aren't even kana in the modern sense). And, of course, there are plenty of results for "okurigana is" as well.

A singular verb form would sit better with me here and in places you recently changed at okurigana, but from what I see the usage in printed works isn't exactly conclusive and dictionaries don't include the word. – MwGamera (talk) 08:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Finding secondary sources seems difficult, but looking into it I came across an interesting summary [4] of various unusual uses of iteration marks from the past (showing examples mostly from Taiyō and Kokumin no Tomo). The section is in a dire need of actual sources rather than expanding on historical and nonce usage, but perhaps someone may find it useful at some point. – MwGamera (talk) 16:30, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]