Talk:Habbani Jews

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This article was poorly cited initially. There is a questionable source which conflicts with academic commentary on the subject, but I'll leave subsequent editors to resolve discrepancies:

[Ma`atuf, Sa`adia bin Yitzkhaq,[translation:] [[Habbani Jewry [of Hatzarmavet] in the Last Generations]], published by the Ma`atuf family under the auspices of the local municipality of Bareqeth and greater municipality of Ben Shemen, 1987, 223pp., pages I.]

I can't find a copy of this source in any database or anywhere online, which makes it very difficult to verify. MrOakes (talk) 21:37, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This book can only be found in Israel. I have a copy of it. A picture of the cover can be seen at the following link HERE. You won't find it on very many databases because of the fact that it was published here in Israel as a master's thesis of the author who is a Habbani Jew. I also found the book HERE. --EhavEliyahu (talk) 11:24, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know who added the information which is sourced as Goldberg, 1996 or Ahroni? They don't list what the names of the actual books are. I am in the process of getting this article up to par.--EhavEliyahu (talk) 16:52, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the picture of king Abdullah I. His guards were Muslim Beduins, not Habbani Jews. Wikipedia is not a place for revisionism. Please keep all arguments about the alleged ancient Habbani martial art on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehoshua_Sofer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rider In The Storm (talk • contribs) 14:42, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The removal of the picture has been reverted pending the provision of a reliable source that the bodyguards were not Habbani Jews. Denisarona (talk) 05:54, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reliable source they ARE Habbani Jews! It is well known King Abdullah has bedouin bodyguards and this can be easily verified by any Jordanian historians. Furthermore, the people on the picture are dressed like bedouins and have typical bedouin haircuts. Habbani Jews dressed differently and had different hairstyles and lived in a different area.

Here are other pictures of bedouins from Transjordan:

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/VV11791/middle-eastern-royal-leaders-posing-on-steps?popup=1

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE065916/the-king-of-iraq-and-his-brothers?popup=1

Here are Habbani Jews:

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/02012008/1469781/10_19_other.jpg

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/02012008/1469783/11_23_other.jpg

I believe Wikipedia should not be used to rewrite history. Please delete the picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rider In The Storm (talk • contribs) 02:02, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In themselves the pictures are not proof - I could wear Bedouin clothes, but it doesn't make me a Bedouin. To resolve this matter I suggest you contact the author of the article at User talk:Briangotts, who may be of assistance. Thanks Denisarona (talk) 04:12, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The picture is not sourced and the description in not sourced. I'm sure you know the Wikipedia rules better than me. If there would be pictures of Jedi knights, would I also have to prove they are not Habbani Jews? I know for a fact that this is part of an attempt to rewrite the history. (Rider In The Storm (talk) 12:59, 26 September 2011 (UTC))[reply]

I contacted the author more than a month ago. Today I removed the unsourced picture with misleading description. (Rider In The Storm (talk) 00:29, 2 November 2011 (UTC))[reply]

And what did the author say? Again you have removed content without providing evidence. Denisarona (talk) 09:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What evidence can I bring that it is unsourced? Res ipsa loquitur. The rules are clear here.(Rider In The Storm (talk) 13:59, 2 November 2011 (UTC))[reply]

'It speaks for itself' - You said above (26 September 2011) that you knew for a fact that this was part of an attempt to re-write history - where is your evidence / proof of this alleged attempt? Are you saying that the author of this article (whose response you haven't provided) is re-writing history. I don't know if the people in the picture are what the author says or what you claim, but you haven't provided any evidence to contradict the author. It's pointless quoting Latin phrases when you don't provide anything tangible to back your claim. Denisarona (talk) 15:13, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I never claimed that poster Briangotts tries to rewrite history, and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt his honest intentions. He simply took a self-published source as reliable. See http://www.abirwarriorarts.com/en/content/history-of-abir The one rewriting the history is Mr. Sofer with his 3500 years old secret martial art. BTW I have not received any answer and poster Briangotts has not been active here for some time.

Second, the latin phrase was there regarding my claim that the picture and its description are unsourced, which I believe is against Wikipedia rules. It should not be about claims but about reliable sources Wikipedia:Verifiability. Would you agree? (Rider In The Storm (talk) 16:47, 2 November 2011 (UTC))[reply]

There have been major revisions of this page, with absolutely no discussion on the talk page about what was added or removed, or why.

There is a particular interest in Habbani culture, given the isolated nature of this population. Unless this is excerpted to its own page I don't see why this content would be removed.

Some of the edits also removed some of the political difficulties these populations experience in the modern world. Its removal without any discussion or replacement material suggests this page may need to be flagged for a NPOV.

Finally, all of the original references which were still used in the current version have been deleted, apparently by the same editor who has recently queried about what these sources are. Seems strange at least, and these references should be maintained as long as they are referenced in the body. All of the removed references are far more authoritative than the one book found in Israel which is repeatedly referenced throughout this piece.

MrOakes (talk) 03:58, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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I see a link at the bottom about their pronunciation of Hebrew, but nothing in the article itself. I have heard that their pronunciation is unique and perhaps in some ways the most accurate of all Jewish traditions, closest to the way Hebrew was pronounced long ago. Perhaps not a reliable source, but see https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/16349/how-do-you-pronounce-the-soft-reish, Aman's answer. MikeR613 (talk) 13:25, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]