Talk:Go opening

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To Charles Matthews: Do you mean that neither "opening" nor "whole-board opening" is the right translation for Fuseki? If so, how to translate it? Or don't translate it at all? And why do you rename Fuseki to "Whole-board go openings"? Do you mean that we need to maintain the word "Fuseki" and make it as a section of "Whole-board go openings"? --Neo-Jay 16:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is explained, for example, on this page at Sensei's Library. [1]. Although normally fuseki does mean the opening stages of a game, there are several points if one wants to be precise:

• the actual Japanese word for the opening is joban;
• if there is an immediate fight in a corner, for example Black 1, White 2 in a corner and an immediate complex joseki, that is not a fuseki because the really correct meaning is like scattering or laying out of stones;
• it is possible to have some fuseki-like plays a little later in the game.

For example this 1987 game between Otake and Kato starts with a fight on one side, and then the fuseki resumes later:

(;SZ[19]FF[3] PW[Otake Hideo] WR[9d] PB[Kato Masao] BR[9d] EV[42nd Honinbo League] DT[1987-02-12] PC[Nihon Ki-in] KM[5.5] RE[W+6.5]

B[qd];W[od];B[oc];W[nc];B[pc];W[md];B[ne];W[nd];B[pf];W[dc];B[jd];W[lf]

B[gc];W[ce];B[lc];W[ld];B[kd];W[qp];B[dp];W[op];B[pk];W[fq];B[dn];W[dr]

B[cq];W[iq];B[ci];W[lh];B[ng];W[qm];B[ip];W[hq];B[kp];W[lj];B[ql];W[pm]

B[oj];W[dl];B[ei];W[dj];B[di];W[fk];B[ki];W[pd];B[qc];W[nh];B[mg];W[lg]

B[mh];W[li];B[jk];W[ll];B[jm];W[gj];B[df];W[cf];B[cg];W[ii];B[mq];W[nq]

B[jq];W[gn];B[hn];W[ho];B[hp];W[gp];B[io];W[hm];B[go];W[fo];B[gr];W[gq]

B[cr];W[ho];B[nr];W[mp];B[lq];W[or];B[ln];W[ni];B[ph];W[in];B[jn];W[fc]

B[gd];W[gb];B[hb];W[fb];B[de];W[dd];B[fe];W[bg];B[dg];W[rm];B[rl];W[sl]

B[sk];W[sm];B[rj];W[bh];B[cm];W[mr];B[no];W[np];B[lr];W[ns];B[jr];W[ig]

B[jf];W[jg];B[bk];W[fr];B[on];W[pn];B[gh];W[kk];B[mi];W[nj];B[mj];W[nk]

B[mk];W[ml];B[kl];W[lk];B[nl];W[ol];B[nm];W[ok];B[jj];W[lm];B[kn];W[il]

B[jl];W[ji];B[hf];W[if];B[he];W[lo];B[mo];W[lp];B[ko];W[pi];B[qi];W[og]

B[of];W[pg];B[qg];W[oh];B[qh];W[qe];B[qf];W[lb];B[kb];W[mc];B[kc];W[ob]

B[pb];W[ie];B[id];W[ha];B[ib];W[bi];B[dq];W[er];B[ir];W[hr];B[ds];W[es]

B[cs];W[bj];B[ck];W[hg];B[gg];W[dk];B[en];W[ak];B[bl];W[oo];B[mn];W[pe]

B[re];W[mf];B[nf];W[je];B[kj];W[kh];B[fm];W[im];B[pj];W[mb];B[oa];W[fl]

B[hk];W[cj];B[ed];W[ec];B[nb];W[oi];B[pl];W[om];B[al];W[aj];B[ia];W[ga]

B[hh];W[ih];B[gm];W[fn];B[em];W[eo];B[do];W[cl];B[bm];W[fi];B[ep];W[fp]

B[fh];W[nn];B[mm];W[ch];B[ls];W[dh];B[eh];W[fd];B[ee];W[is];B[js];W[hs]

B[ms];W[nr];B[ke];W[kf];B[ka];W[on]

)

As for explaining fuseki, the best way should be to explain why it is important at the beginning to spread out and take corners, and big points on the side. So, fuseki to me seems to be an aspect of opening strategy that must be discussed.

Charles Matthews 17:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Charles. Yes, Fuseki is an aspect of opening strategy that must be discussed. But my main concern is whether we need to establish an independent article Fuseki. It still seems that neither "opening" nor "whole-board opening" is fuseki (This is your position, isn't it?) Fuseki needs to be an indepedent article, not simply a section of Whole-board go openings. It is very important to have a English article as a counterpart to Japanese Fuseki (布石) and Chinese Buju (布局). So please don't rename Fuseki to "whole-board go opening'. Please. OrZ. Thank you. --Neo-Jay 18:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But the content of the page assumed that fuseki was the same as whole-board opening strategy. You are asking a large number of questions, and I am trying to answer each one as carefully, fully and accurately as possible. But it seems clear that we should first arrange the pages here correctly, and only then make the interwiki links. The first priority is to have what is written here at the English Wikipedia 100% accurate. Please be patient. You have caused some problems by making changes such as three-star opening to fuseki, which were not here before. We can deal with every such issue. English speakers often use the Japanese words incorrectly, so I don't blame you in any way. But what is written elsewhere on the Internet is not always of a high standard, and the Wikipedia approach must be a little more serious. When we have finished discussing the titles that are best to use here, it should be easy to move the interwiki links. Probably we need also a page Go opening strategy, explaining the strategic principles, and when that is written fuseki should redirect to it, and the Chinese and Japanese interwiki should link to it.Charles Matthews 18:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. Good luck. --Neo-Jay 18:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose merging Go opening strategy and Go opening theory into this article, since all three cover more or less the same stuff. They're also pedagogical essays that would need substantial rewrite to resemble encyclopedia articles. If nobody minds, I will perform a selective merge in a month's time, ie Nov 10. Reyk _YO! 05:06, 10 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Y- done. Reyk _YO! 10:31, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]