Talk:FC Bayern Munich/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about FC Bayern Munich. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Since a millennium is 1000 years (and a very long time), shouldn't it be "Beginning of the 21st century"? Kingjeff 22:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Nah. That was the big buzz then. Everybody was calling it the turn of the millennium, not the turn of the century. Don't get the chance very often, so best to indulge yourself. Besides, millennium sounds cooler! :) Wiggy! 22:40, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I kindly request you to leave historical issue more to me. Dombi moved on to Feijenoord is more correct than fled to Feijenoord. He did not fo either. For keeping the history short moved on will' do. His next job was actually with FC Basel - and he did not flee. When I have time I shall write the Bio of Dombi, alias Kohn, a quite remarkable figure in the history of the game. I just have at this moment not the time for it. Before that I will finish eg., Hennes Weisweiler. But not just now. I have also got other things to do. Having read a couple of articles re Nazis and football does not quite maketh the expert.

I believe, I have a very deep understanding of the club and its history and published in my lifetime quite a bit with regards to it.

If you want to wank yourself dry about Nazi football do something useful, make contributions to the Schalke Schalke and "TSV 1860 Munich" (nice web site to it on the web pre-existing) pages, or document international matches of that era.

This is all meant with friendship and in a cordial spirit.

I myself, in between, will hopefully be able to get the Bayern Munich page to a foremost standard, collate facts, and wahack them into an eventually presentable form with a suitable narrative accompanyment.

Cheers,

Oalexander-En 17:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a collaboration. Leaving the historical issue to you is not collaborating. If there needs to be debate to settle a point, then fine, but again be civil. This is supposed to be a shared experience where we end up with the best possible result.

"Wank my self dry" is uncivil. I put some relevant information in context. I'm aware of Schalke and 1860 Munich and have made related comments in the Bundesliga and BM articles, not having edited the club pages. Nazism had an impact on German football and the lives of some of the games important persons. That should be acknowledged, plain and simple.

I'm prepared to debate points, and like the issue over Dombi "fleeing", its the type of thing one sorts out in a "friendly and cordial" manner. Dombi "left for" Switzerland because the climate in the country was becoming uncomfortable. He ended up in the Netherlands. Changing a couple of words fixed the thing. Civilly.

Look hard at something before you nuke it and if just needs a tweak, tweak it. Show some consideration for the work of others. You may well be a historical expert, but I write quite well. Surely there's some sawoff in there.

Now go easy and let us other kids play too, please. Wiggy! 18:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Some input from other players would be useful to resolving this, please. Pipe up folks. Wiggy! 18:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Editing Steps

I have thus far demonstrated my co-operative nature a great deal by explaining most of my editing steps here. I will continue to do so, even if this is probably nigh unprecedendet in the environment.

Oalexander-En 18:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

May I suggest that all changes to the History before World War II section are thoroughly discussed here first, with an opportunity for third parties to contribute? If things are taken a bit more slowly it'll hopefully stop the edit war which appears to be in progress. Oldelpaso 19:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Which is what I was hoping for when I invited input. And no, Oa, your approach has not been co-operative. It's been abrasive and inconsiderate. Appointing yourself as THE expert on the club is high-handed. And while the attempt is good, the language of the article is weak. It doesn't carry the tone of an encyclopedia and is full of mistakes related to tense, sentence structure and common usage. Encyclopedia articles as a rule don't use a lot of exclamation marks and florid language. I repeat - its an encyclopedia, not a fan page and should read that way. Your history may be good, but at a minimum the writing style needs help. Wiggy! 19:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia should use Oalexander knowledge of the club. But allow others to maybe help out in someother as regards to his contributions. Kingjeff 20:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a basic issue with the facts laid down. The content has been generally consistent, but that doesn't bar others from adding to the body of fact in the work. However, the writing isn't even close to Featured Article standards. If going FA is an objective, the writing needs to be fixed. It's important to allow broader participation and take advantage of the various strengths of all the contributors. I don't see that in spirit or in fact. So, without putting words in your mouth, I guess I'm I agreeing with you. Wiggy! 21:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Bayern, beyond the elimination of Jews from its ranks, did not suffer any particular obvious pressures. Party appointed presidents were not running it before 1938. The successors of Landauer where non-jewish, but else bona fide up to then.

German football under the Nazis was different from what German football had previously been. All clubs came under some measure of political pressure. Some were disbanded or restructured to be politically tame entities. The league structure was significantly altered. The regime had a deliberate policy of bending social institutions, including sports and football clubs, to their objectives. The Allies deliberate deconstruction of German organizations "contaminated" by the Nazi's immediately after the war during the occupation had a direct effect on German football clubs. To say the club suffered no ill effects "beyond the elimination of Jews from its ranks" utterly flies in the face of the lessons of that period of history. Football teams were not the engine of the regimes policies, but like the rest of the country they certainly were caught up in it. Some teams, like Bayern and Alemania, were able to stand up in some way to the tide and should receive some recognition for it. They entry acknowledges the impact on Bayern and German society in general of the country's darkest period.

The material is relevant to the history of German football in a broad sense and not just to the history of the club. I can't see skipping it.

And sign your name, please. Wiggy! 17:46, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

---

I tend to sign with my name I guess. Sometimes I may forget; rarely, I supoose.

Else, why don't you create an article "Major German Football Clubs in the Third Reich and vent details in order to create aan authoritative compilation. Maybe do some exciting research for a change. Live is not all about ruminating.

Oalexander-En 18:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

While it needs to be said, I can't see it necessary to belabour the thing. Reference in the context of a club's history is sufficient I think. Wiggy! 18:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure ehat putting all club names in italics is good for. It's not done everywhere else. Else see => italics!

... did not flee to the Netherlands. This is factually wrong!!! He moved on - but certainly did flee in the sense of fleeing from immediate personal danger. Can you leave the shyte as is and maybe do some research.

Oalexander-En 17:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

If you need to fix a fact that's fine, fix it. But be civil. I don't want to get into an edit war with you, but you've gone and hacked out a bunch of stuff that's relevant and interesting to the club history. It wouldn't hurt to leave it in place.

And yeah, I have done some research. Just like you. There's room for everyone to make contributions, which I gather is the nature of a collaboration. Show some generosity and consideration for the spirit of the project.

Again, it should read like an encyclopedia article – not a fan page. Wiggy! 17:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The content has by now successfully transormed from a quasi fan-page to NPOV content. Most of the things worth consigning to the knowledge of posterity have been added by now. There is still a major issue to deal with:

• Content length: This will be handled by summarising the content of "History" and whacking the long verison on a seperate page FC Bayern Munich - History

Once this is done the content will be restructured and put into a order as found in recommended pertinent articles (eg. IFK Göteborg, Arsenal FC)

This means, we will end up with somethin like

• History
• Club Honours
• Players
• Coaches
• Stadium

etc., in a yet to determined sequence.

Further emphasis will be put on filling the blanks. This means if an item (eg., a name) is worth linking from the page it is worth writing an article to it. No more shining red links!!!

I myself, beyond dealing with some issues on the Bayern Munich page, have since added articles to Jupp Heynckes, "Czik" Cajkovski, William Townley and others.

There are still many other and rewarding topic to be found: Franz Roth (here research might be focussing if there is another player out there who has decided with a single goal two European finals - by all means ans interesting player), Wilhelm Neudecker, the father of the modern FC Bayern, Richard Dombi (Hungarian, played for Austria, created Feyenoord Rotterdam as we know it, Bayerns first championship coach), Branko Zebec who won with some other club the UEFA Cup, before succeeding big-time as coach in Germany, Dettmar Cramer, Germany's globe-trotting coach, Max Merkel, Pal Csernai, Uli Hoeness, etc.

It s all about acquiring specialist knowledge: adopt a guy, decide to love him or hate him - and most impoerantly, find out everything about him you can, and write it up for a global audience. For me, not being a natural scientist, Wikipedia is all about an opportunity of document the past so that ensuing generations can reconstruct it perfectly, and at ease.

I am not sure if anybody has any idea, how long it took me to research the first of the great coaches in Germany, Wiliam Townley. It is a project still not yet finished, and it cost me tons of hours, and I am still working on it. Just yesterday I found out about his engagement with Eintracht Hannover.

Beyond fixing up typos, there is a lot left to do.

Cheers to all.

Oalexander-En 16:05, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

If the article is to be divided up, it might be better to slough off all the trivia to separate pages. If you cut out the history of the club all you're left with is the minuate that only a serious fan would enjoy — as I understand it, that's not the point of the exercise. Take the list of coaches and attendance and presidents and captains and move that material to a separate page, along the lines of what I suggested somewhere above on this discussion page. Remember, it's not a fan page, its an encyclopedia entry and it has to read as one in its content and its tone. You've done a ton of work, but now we're running the risk of getting off track with this article.

Wiggy! 16:27, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Oalexander, You may find the Football Club Manual of Style useful. Most of the records and statistics at the bottom should go to Statistics of Bayern Munich. Oldelpaso

Will all happen before the end of this week (ie., Fri 10 Feb 2005).

Oalexander-En 15:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

This refers to new stuff that goes onto this page here, should be added to the top for immediate visibility, unless they refer to subjects already listed. This takes care that old stuff goes more and more down into the storage cellar and out of sight. Word of the day: transparency!

Oalexander-En 15:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I find this somewhat confusing, given that the top of the page says "Place comments that start a new topic at the bottom of the page and give them == A Descriptive Header ==". New discussions at the bottom is recommended by Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Oldelpaso 18:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the little stories to the players, as all that stuff should be available from their respective wikipedia articles or other context. It was not not necessary to double up here.

Oalexander-En 15:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

They had these shiny red links on the Bayern page. I since have written articles for both:

• William Townley
• Jupp Heynckes

Football history buffs (not only Bayern fans!), will be particularly fond of the Townley one!

Oalexander-En 15:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Aforementioned history buffs might also like two other contributions I have added inside the last few days:

• Udo Lattek
• Hennes Weisweiler

Cheers,

Oalexander-En 17:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Nice job on Townley. Good to see the German football stuff coming together so nicely. Wiggy! 22:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The entry for Bayern has now experienced a significant consolidation. The content length is more in line with Wikipedia guidelines, and even more importantly, the content has been transformed from a more fan-site-typical make up to a more bread and butter facts based type of situation.

It is still far from being anywhere near perfect. Thus, the next days will see a further streamlining of the content and a more user friendly structuring. I am aware that there are also still a few typos around: whoever finds one may keep it, or even better fix it.

Further attempts will be made to further increase the number of hard facts for the target audience.

Let's see, if in the end the price for the most improved page can be garnered!

Oalexander-En 21:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed due to lack of relevance. The team doctor is mentioned. In the end, would it be desirable to mention that Matthäus screwed his daughter?

Oalexander-En 19:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Bayern has NO nick. "FC Hollywood" was temporary jargon of the press some ten years ago, "Bazis" did not really catch on, and "Bayern", well that's the name of the team, but no nickname. What else should they call it? "Borussia"". No nick is no nick.

Oalexander-En 18:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

About the nickname thing, I agree that FC Hollywood would not be an appropriate nickname. I'd say Bayern because you can consider it a shortname that everybody uses. Also on the official website, they usually call the team: "The Reds", i don't know if it would make it for a nickname because its very general and it works for other teams (i.e. Kaiserslautern). Bottom line, I think a nickname should be mentioned because it renders the team more personal hence gives an "apercu" on the fan attachment...

Kaiser23 06:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Kaiserslautern are the Red Devils. Kingjeff 15:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I can see mention of FC Hollywood and Bazis being made in the context of derisive names for the club used by the press or other club's supporters. It would help get across the idea of the hate-on some folks have for Bayern. The Reds works to distinguish them in town from 1860 who are The Blues. Both these references work, but only in context. Wiggy! 02:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

"A nickname should be mentioned because it renders the team more personal ..." - and it would render my cat more personal if it could speak. Fact is: my cat cannot speak, and Bayern simply has no nickname! If I tell s/body "the reds have won over the weekend", would they know whom I am talking about? No. Does this settle it?

Oalexander-En 12:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I browsed my way through Bayerns home page and the fan and history sections of both the English and German versions (I can't read Chinese!) make reference to the team as the Reds, so that might indeed be a legit reference. Graze through the site and see what you think. Wiggy! 15:20, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The term "the Reds/die Roten" has never ever come across to me in the regular press, radio, tv, etc. Even in fan forums the expression has only ever cropped up once to me, but that was one of the "Gymnasts / Turner", ie., TSV 1860, when it was used in the context if it was a good idea to go with "the Reds" into the stadium joint venture. Else the used mostly "Bauern" ("farmers', but I guess they would rather translate "peasants").

Many, many years ago "Rothosen" ("red shorts") was in use to some extent. But I have heard this term for the last time, I guess, yes, it was in the seventies!

Maybe you want to try the following test google »site:transfermarkt.de die roten« . Hannover would be a common result (Transfermarkt is a pretty comprehensive German football forum site). Note that the expression would have to be in an in an unequivocal positive sense and pretty common to boot to qualify as a "nickname". Nickname stuff like die "Roten" or "Bayern" is only ever used in contexts where there are forms to be filled out and people feel compelled to fill something in. Some automatism. Like if I amske what my fav milk flavour is. Probably I would check something like "chocolate" even if I am known for not having touched milk since the days when the term "Rothosen" was last heard. Cheers,

Oalexander-En 17:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Somehow interesting, but both sections were well exceeding the scope of the environment.

Oalexander-En 18:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe what the article needs is a section – made up only of links to other wiki pages – that can cover off some of the esoterica. And it can have some cool heading like Bayern Munich for the Truly Rabid. Or The Cult of Bayern Munich. Or just More Bayern Munich ... Wiggy! 02:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Keen idea!!! The first Ultra Nerds -Oalexander-En 14:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe at some stage of the future, maybe ofter the Kaiser becomes UEFA president. Up to now he is the president and chairman of the supervisory board. KH Rummenigge is chairman of the executive board. BTW: in German corporate hierarchy the supervisory board ("Aufsichtsrat") is above the executive board ("Geschäftsleitung").

Oalexander-En 14:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Some might feel so, but everything proceed in line with the association's (DFB) outline for the league. At very best the term "controversy" is applicable. Everything else is falsification of history.

Oalexander-En 14:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I've been trying to pin down exactly what the criteria were for get into the Bundesliga that first year. From what I gather the criteria were three-fold: results over the previous ten years, financial stability and geographical representation. Word is that the fourth criterion was being owned by one of the guys on the selction committee, which apparently worked out quite well for Kickers Offenbach.

I'd really love to see that ten-years results table ... Wiggy! 02:15, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Up to about 1971 it was called the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, or Messepokal in German.

Oalexander-En 14:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Terms like "goalie" are not really appropriate for an encyclopaedia article. Oalexander-En 12:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

The inclusion of the reserve squad exceeds the scope an encyclopaedia article. Who, but the bravest Bayern fans should be interested? Oalexander-En 12:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

212.187.155.156 thinks Uli Hoeness is the manager. I think Felix Magath is the manager. Let's vote for who the manager is. Kingjeff 04:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

• Support Kingjeff 04:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

There's been no arguments for either of the sides, so let's get some information before going into a vote. At the Bayern hompage Magath is named "Head Coach" while Hoeness is "Deputy Chairman Executive Board" - subordinate to Rummenigge who is "Chairman Executive Board" so as I see it Hoeness is the "assistant" of Rummenigge and not manager in his own right. Also, all other Bundesliga clubs have the head coach as "manager" apart from Schalke 04 where Rudi Assauer is clearly stated as "manager" on the clubs website. So, I don't think you should bother with a vote and just change it back to Magath. If the editor wants to change it some arguments will have to surface from his side. Poulsen 11:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

In England (I know Bayern Munich is in Germany), Head Coaches are refered to as Managers. Wikipedia has Sir Alex Ferguson is a Scottish football manager which is the same position as Felix Magath. Kingjeff 15:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the confusion stems from poor command of the English language. In the English language, the term "manager" is used, among others, for the coach and differs from the meaning of the term "manager" as it is used in the German language. Since this is an English language website, the term manager is correctly used for Klaus Magath! (JMK, New York, January 22, 2006).

Can we get individual players into a table? It'll look much better. Kingjeff 18:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

That surely is possible, I just do not know what you havew got in mind. Pls specify. cheers,

Oalexander-En 18:17, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Here's an example.

Individual awards won by Bayern players
Player	Awards won	Years
Franz Beckenbauer	Ballon d'Or German Player of the Year	1972, 1976 1966, 1968, 1974, 1976

Kingjeff 18:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Seems to be ok, but the sort order in this context would have to be by title I suppose. I hope u like the implementation!

Oalexander-En 13:34, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I like the topic for team championships. I tried a table for it a while ago. But 1 or 2 people put up a big fuss about it. But lets keep it the way it is. Kingjeff 18:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Are you absolutely sure that is the correct pic? Its a trifle strange that bayern munich fans would wave blue and white flags..ok,VERY strange. Kinda crazy 14:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I am absolutely 100% sure those are Bayern Munich fans. I know at least 2 of the flags they are holding are flags of Bavaria Kingjeff 22:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Kinda crazy, if you take a really close look at the pic then you can see they're Bayern fans. If you take a look at the checkard blue and white flag at the rigt side then you'll see a someone wearing somekind of Bayern scarf around his neck.

This pic was taken at Olympic Stadium in Berlin when Bayern faced MSV 1919 Neuruppin in the DFB Cup. Kingjeff 15:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Kingjeff, I'm form Bavaria myself and I can tell you for sure that these flags are definately NOT Bavarian. It's true that one of them seems to have an Fc Bayern scarf, but the rest doesn't look like Bayern-fans to me. That's why I'm going to remove it again (You can trust me, I know how our flag looks like :-) Fulcher 23:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I know 2 of them were Bavarian flags. Even check the Bavaria page. Kingjeff 00:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

My previous comment is in reference of the front 2 flags that are checkered blue and white. I think they are definitely Bavarian flag. They match the flag showen for the Bavaria article. Kingjeff 00:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

"But the rest doesn't look like Bayern-fans to me." Bayern were the visiting team in this paticular game and therefore would all (or mostly) be Bayern fans. On a side not, are we not allowed to edit by section anymore? Kingjeff 00:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

That blue-and-white diamond pattern is the same one that appears in the centre field of Bayern's crest. And yeah, its from the state flag of Bavaria, so everything looks to be in order. The other flag I've seen used is white over red with a crest in the centre. Wiggy! 02:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

For me it is also far from showing typical bayern fans. Probably the pic shows Neurupin fans. And there are no bavarian flags on the pic. The flag has transverse quads. 129.217.129.133 03:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

You have me saying at least 2 of those flags are Bavarian flags andWiggy! saying even more of the flags are associated with Bavaria. Kingjeff 03:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, on closer examination of the pic, 129.217.129.133 is right. Those flags are showing the wrong pattern. It's gotta go! :) Wiggy! 03:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, here is another pic with fans (but bad quality):

• 
  Bayern fans in the Allianz Arena
• 
  AA bayernmunich coloured

129.217.129.133 04:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Somewhere on my hard rive I have a half way decent enough pic or two. Just, at this stage this is not really the major priority from my view point. The first priority was to remove the biggest nonsense an transfer it sort of from fan-page to NPOV. Next is consolidation of the content, and then, in the end we will tart it up with a few meaningful contextual illustrations. In the end the thing has to have the look and feel of the champions league of the wiki football club pages. What it will look for the next few transitional days matters not a lot. A few changes here and there for the time being, so that people see things are moving. Cheers,

Oalexander-En 17:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll give a little bit of credit for the flags. The flags are a whole different topic. But I still maintain that they're still Bayern fans. Kingjeff 19:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The history section could use some clean-up, especially the most current subsection (renewed international success). The problem with that subsection is that for the last couple of years it has always been updated after the season and thus lacks a sense of what was historically relevant and what not so much. It almost reads like a list of titles. There is a bunch of sentences like this one "In the 2010–11 season, Bayern were eliminated in the first round of the Champions League knockout phase by Inter Milan on the away goals rule and finished third in the Bundesliga". This is obviously fine on its own, but is the content relevant? The next sentence is "Van Gaal was fired by Bayern in April 2011." It's not even clear if one relates to the other. At the same time the subsection misses key incindents like major signings (Robert Lewandowski most prominently).

I have made a draft for a new version. It would be titled 'Robbery' because of the way the signing of Ribery and Robben has defined the recent past of the club and that's the name the press has given them. Maybe the title is too confusing for casual readers though. Keep in mind it's a draft, I did not care to link everything or provide references. Do you think the content is what should be there or is something missing/some parts to verbose?

For the 2007–08 season, Bayern made drastic squad changes to help rebuild. They signed a total of eight new players and sold, released or loaned out nine of their players.[41] Among new signings were 2006 World Cup stars such as Franck Ribéry, Miroslav Klose and Luca Toni. Bayern went on to win the Bundesliga in convincing fasion, leading the standings on every single week of play, and the DFB-Pokal against Borussia Dortmund.

After the season Bayern's long-term goalkeeper Oliver Kahn retired which left the club without a top-tier goalkeeper for several seasons. The club's coach Ottmar Hitzfeld also retired and Jürgen Klinsmann was chosen as his successor for the 2008-09 season. However, Klinsmann was sacked even before the end of his first season as Bayern trailed Wolfsburg in the league, had lost the Quarterfinal of the DFB-Pokal to Bayer Leverkusen, and had been made look silly in the Quarterfinal of the Champions League when FC Barcelona scored four times in the first half of the first leg and over the course of both legs Bayern never looked like they could keep up. Jupp Heynckes was named caretaker coach and led the club to a second place finish in the league.

For the 2009-10 Bayern hired Dutch manager Louis van Gaal. The team was reinforced with signings of Mario Gomez and Arjen Robben. Robben alongside Ribery would go on to shape Bayern’s playing style of attacking over the wings for the next ten years. The press quickly dubbed the duo ‚Robbery‘. In addition to these signings van Gaal promoted Thomas Müller and Holger Badstuber to the first team early in the season. With Müller he even went so far as to announce ‚with me, Müller always plays‘ which has become a much referenced phrase over the years. On the pitch Bayern had its most successful season since 2001, securing the domestic double and losing only in the final of the Champions League to Inter Milan 2-0. Despite the successful 2009-10 campaign van Gaal was fired in April 2011 as Bayern was trailing in the league and eliminated in the first knockout round of the Champions League. Van Gaal’s second in command, Andries Jonkers, took over and finished the season in third place.

Jupp Heynckes returned for his second permanent spell in the 2011-12 season. Although the club had signed Manuel Neuer, ending Bayern's quest for an adequate substitute for Kahn, and Jerome Boateng for the season, Bayern stayed without title for the second season in a row, coming in second to Borussia Dortmund in the league and the cup. The Champions League final was held at the Allianz and Bayern indeed reached the final in their home stadium, but lost the ‚Finale dahoam‘ as they had termed it to Chelsea on penalties.

For the 2012-13 season Bayern signed Javi Martinez for €40 Mio, the highest the club had ever paid for any player. After Bayern had finished as runner-up to all titles in 2011-12 Bayern won all titles in 2012-13, setting various Bundesliga records along the way, and becoming the first German team to win the treble. Bayern finished the Bundesliga on 91 points, only 11 points shy of a perfect season, and to date still the best season ever played. In what was Bayern’s third Champions League final appearance within four years they beat Borussia Dortmund 1-0. A week later they completed the treble by winning the DFB-Pokal final over VfB Stuttgart. During the season, in January, Bayern had already announced that they would hire Pep Guardialo as coach for the 2013-14 season. Originally the club presented this as Heynckes retiring on the expiration of his contract, but Uli Hoeneß later admitted, that it was not Heynckes's decision to leave Bayern at the end of the season. It was actually forced by the club's desire to appoint Guardiola.

For the 2013-14 season Bayern transferred Mario Götze from Borussia Dortmund and fulfilled Guardiola’s wish of signing Tiago Alcantara from FC Barcelona. Guardiola’s first season started off well with Bayern extending a streak of undefeated league matches from the last season to 53 matches. The eventual loss to Augsburg came two match days after Bayern had already claimed the league title. During the season Bayern had also claimed two other titles, the FIFA Club World Cup and the UEFA Super Cup, the latter being the last major trophy the club had not yet won. Bayern also won the cup to complete their tenth domestic double, but lost in the semi-final of the Champions League to FC Barcelona. Off the pitch Bayern’s president Uli Hoeneß was convicted of tax evasion on 13 March 2014 and sentenced to three and a half years in prison. Hoeneß resigned the next day. Vice-president Karl Hopfner was elected president on 2 May.

Before the 2014-15 season Bayern picked up Robert Lewandowski after his contract had ended at Borussia Dortmund, and loaned out Xabi Alonso from Real Madrid. Bayern also let Toni Kroos leave for Real Madrid. Club icon’s Bastian Schweinsteiger and Claudio Pizarro left before the 2015-16 season. In these two seasons Bayern defended their league title, including another double in 2014-15, but failed to advance past the semi-finals in the Champions League, which led to disappointment on the club’s periphery as the expectation had been that Guardiola would lead the club to their fifth Champions League title. Although the club’s leadership tried to convice Guardiola to stay, the coach decided not to extend his three-year contract.

Carlo Ancelotti was hired as successor to Guardiola. The key transfer for the 2016-17 campaign was Mats Hummels from Borussia Dortmund. Off the pitch Uli Hoeneß had been released early from prison and reelected as president in November 2016. Under Ancelotti Bayern claimed their fifth consecutive league title, but did not win the cup or the Champions League. In July 2017 Bayern announced that 1860 Munich would leave the Allianz for good as the club had been relegated to the 4th division. Before the 2017-18 season Bayern made extensive changes to their squad, signing amongst others young prospects such as Kingsley Coman, Corentin Tolisso, Serge Gnabry and Niklas Süle, and loaning James Rodriguez from Real. Meanwhile the club’s captain, Philipp Lahm, and Xabi Alonso retired and several other players left the club. As Bayern’s performances were perceived to be more and more lackluster Ancelotti was sacked after a 3-0 loss to Paris St. Germain in the Champions League, early in his second season. Willy Sagnol took over as interim manager for a week before it was announced that Jupp Heynckes would finish the season in his fourth spell at the club. During the season the club urged Heynckes —even publicly— to extend his contract, but club Heynckes, aged 73, stayed firm that he would retire for good after the season. The club began a long and extensive search to find a replacement for Heynckes. Eventually Niko Kovac was presented as Heynckes’s successor, signing a three-year contract. Heynckes led the club to another championship. In the cup final, Heynckes last match as coach, Heynckes met his successor on the pitch. Kovac’s Eintacht Frankfurt denied Bayern the title, winning 3-1.

Kovac’s first season at the club started slow with Bayern falling behind Dortmund in the league throughout the first half of the season. In contrast to similar situations with van Gaal and Ancelotti the club's leadership decided to protect their coach from criticisms, however, and Bayern quickly closed the distance after the winter break. In the Champions League the club was elimanted by FC Liverpool in the round of 16, the first time since 2011 that Bayern did not reach the quarterfinal. During the season Arjen Robben announced that it would be his last season for the club.

OdinFK (talk) 10:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Add the respective accents and patterns on the away and third kits, not just the base colours. The home kit does have its respective accents and pattern. Luke Sciberras (talk) 07:46, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

The article notes that among English speakers the convention is to translate the city name but not the state name, but does not explain why. Does anybody have a source for this? Why "Bayern Munich" and not "Bavaria Munich"? Or even "Bavaria München"? Or just "Bayern München", their actual name?

"München" is a quirky, unfamiliar name for English speakers, but so is "Bayern". TypoBoy (talk) 17:04, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Just look it up on a few English sites. BBC for example. In the end it doesn't really matter too much why English speaking people call Bayern 'Bayern Munich'. The article name should reflect what people expect and that seems to be Bayern Munich. OdinFK (talk) 19:49, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

"Bayern Munich" is the WP:COMMONNAME. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:09, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

I quite agree that "Bayern Munich" is the WP:COMMONNAME for the purposes of English-language Wikipedia. My question is, why is it? How did this quirky partial translation become the one by which the team is known by English speakers?

One imagines a Münchner who supports the team traveling to, say, New York City and being somewhat surprised to know the team has fans there and completely bewildered by the fact that they know the team as "Bayern Munich", rather than the English translation, "Bavaria Munich" (or "Bayern München", its actual name). He would wonder why. I have the same question. The article should address it. TypoBoy (talk) 17:15, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Language is odd. We don't usually speak of German states in English. Most would translate BMW's German name of Bayerische Motoren Werke as Bavarian Motor Works, but otherwise, the state is not usually used in English. No clue why Bayern is used without translation and Munich is. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:36, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

The thing is as we don't know the reasons why the name is used in the way it is we cannot adress it in the article. We actually can't even judge if the origin is noteworthy. If you find something feel free to come back here and we can discuss if it is worth including. OdinFK (talk) 08:33, 8 October 2019 (UTC)