Talk:Die Antwoord

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This band has been getting an extremely large amount of press lately. They were featured in New York Magazine's online entertainment site, Vulture, on Boing Boing, and in countless blogs. This, coupled with their appearance on Attack of The Show, is going to make for dozens of people searching for this wiki site. If the article is taken down, it is going to be put up again repeatedly because of the buzz, so I think it should be left up for now. If the band's fifteen minutes run out quickly, then the article can be deleted. 00:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

...and you're getting this from MySpace and Facebook? IN the case of repeated recreation (this is the second time already, deleted per A7), it can simply be locked. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 00:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is obviously not a candidate for speedy deletion, notability is clearly asserted (Die Antwoord has received local press coverage from South African media with articles published in newspapers Beeld, Die Burger and Raport.), go through afd.--Sloane (talk) 01:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I'm getting this from Vulture, Vice Magazine and Boing Boing. Links go to the articles about the band. The article needs to exist because of the sheer number of people searching for info about this band. 01:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.12.140.24 (talk)

the sources you cite are basically blog-like. f indeed they were in Beeld, Die Burger, and Rapport, then include that. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 01:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Boing Boing is a blog, but Vice Magazine is - as one might expect - a magazine (and that interview is in the website's "In the Magazine" section), and Vulture is part of the New York Magazine website. If you take a look at WP:RS, I think you'll find that it discriminates between news organizations, not the media that they use. The article needs better sourcing, but that is not grounds for deletion. -zorblek (talk) 13:34, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I added source from loacl newspaper Rapport [1] User:FNC —Preceding undated comment added 09:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC).[reply]

They have also been picked up by a Dutch indie recordlabel. Webhat (talk) 14:00, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Which label would that be? 81.68.255.36 (talk) 17:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please leave info on thie Wikipage unchaged. Yo-Landi asked me to add some info, which I did, today. Zef Meester Griff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffin watkykjy (talk • contribs) 09:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

it doesn't matter if yolandi, ninja, or abraham lincoln asked you to add it. the material needs to be referenced, and a lot of your additions are direct copy/pastes from the now defunct dieantwoordzeflings, i believe. Kaini (talk) 09:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Seems that they are notable, but the article does need a rewrite. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) ^talk 01:18, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

They were also recently featured on G4TV. Livingston 23:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is no mention that they are actually comedians making some sort of parody, which would be useful in understanding their act. "NInja does not live here anymore?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.205.167.56 (talk) 23:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I removed some of the more blatant point of view comments, especially since they were unreferenced. A few of the references used for other sections were also inappropriate. Youtube videos can't be used as Wikipedia references, neither can other Wikipedia pages (re: Constructs). The "Hazel's Joint" reference is completely inaccurate in that Ninja never actually says "Max doesn’t live here anymore, move on", the article suggests that the look on his face/in his eyes said that. The personal life section is simply too gossipy to include without references, and as of yet, nothing substantial on the web actually verifies these aspects of Ninja's and Yo-Landi's lives.

Try to stick to reasonable references, and not include heresay. 74.248.93.164 (talk) 00:38, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I want to bring back the controversy section or at least an elaboration on the characteristics of the musical act. If someone went the Borat page and did not find information about the the fact that he is a character performed by an actor, that would be misleading. From the previous posts, it sounds like this kind public facing personification of a character is happening a bit with Die Antwoord. Any thoughts? Bcomnes (talk) 08:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fred Durst claimed Die Antwoord is his favourite band via Twitter, worth mentioning? http://twitter.com/freddurst scroll down a bit, he talks about them all the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.244.234.228 (talk) 15:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not in my opinion. Maybe if Pres. Obama or some other head-of-state did. DanielM (talk) 12:49, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Nor mine, Durst is a has been.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.186.54.75 (talk) 07:20, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply] 

Isn't it electroclash? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.107.143.107 (talk) 19:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No. There is nothing New Wave about their style in music or otherwise. According to the electroclash article, new wave+electronic dance music=electroclash Centerone (talk) 22:56, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Simple question: Are these guys for real? - Or is this a parody on something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.211.108.104 (talk) 15:01, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this question can be definitively answered anymore than it already is. In the page it says "Die Antwoord lead vocalist Ninja (born Watkin Tudor Jones) was a part of South African hip-hop scene for many years, fronting such acts as The Original Evergreens, Max Normal.tv and The Constructus Corporation.[3] He is known for adopting different stage personas. In the case of Die Antwoord his persona is Ninja: a hyper violent character who is very different from his previous incarnations." So, it's a bit of a persona, but don't so many performers do such a thing? Centerone (talk) 15:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From reading the Mahala interview, they seem to be referencing Cape Town gang culture and slang drawn from the Coloured ethnic group. Whether this is parody or not is a matter for discussion. Totorotroll (talk) 12:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is also evident from listening to Wat Kyk Jy Totorotroll (talk) 11:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think both terms are equally derogatory, but that's irrelevant because the Reuters article cited says "redneck". Wikipedia isn't making the claim that zef is equivalent to redneck, Reuters is. Until the time that there are more authoritative sources on exactly what idiom "zef" translates to, I think we ought to stick with Reuters' wording. -zorblek (talk) 01:38, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

White trash simply seems to be more accurate. Redneck refers to a small minority. It's kind of like boat and ship. Rednecks are White Trash but not all white trash are redneck. The Reuters reporter seems to be SA based, so he might not have known the subtleties between the two. Centerone (talk) 02:22, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not for us to decide that a reliable source doesn't really get it right, and put in our own opinions instead. DanielM (talk) 10:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gee, that's funny your change seemed to be exactly that. You didn't revert it as a quote, you "changed to more appropriate word", seemingly not aware at first of the original reference, or that it had previously been edited FROM redneck to white trash, and you still seem to believe that "yes" white trash is somehow more of a slur than either redneck or zef. Centerone (talk) 10:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, what I did was different. I disagreed with your phrase, not the reference. You suggested overriding the reference. DanielM (talk)

Perhaps we should just change it to "common". Redneck is clearly not accurate. References all seems to say it loosely translates as common, and they provide significant examples of what it entails. http://www.news24.com/Entertainment/SouthAfrica/The-Dummies-guide-to-Zef-20100216 http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Die-Antwoord-op-die-vraag-Wat-is-n%C3%B3%C3%BA-zef-20100216 Others are of course the site, watkykjy, and the mhambi piece. Centerone (talk) 11:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is not really the place for a debate about the relative meanings of "red neck" and "white trash" (though certainly I do think that the latter is a racial slur inappropriate for descriptive use in Wikipedia). Yes, I did not realize at first that in fact "red neck" was referenced, preferring it to your expression for other reasons. So what? You want to argue about what I knew and when I knew it, or do you want to make a better article? If you are so enthusiastic about the use of "white trash" to describe Die Antwoord, Centerone, furnish a citation for this. DanielM (talk) 12:07, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"The motivation behind Die Antwoord along with their cultural politics have been hotly debated in South African academic circles at conferences, seminars and on social media platforms."

now, i have edited that statement - but why do i get the feeling that this is a very subtle addition from 4chan or similar? --Kaini (talk) 00:25, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so concerned. I think it's a legitimate and probably true thing, but at this point it seems to be WP:OR unless the poster can provide citations. Centerone (talk) 00:48, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You got it backwards 2601:281:D981:2980:7153:E7B0:3F89:AE3E (talk) 09:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is Ninja on zef "It's like the underbelly of Afrikaans; an embarrassing thing they want to hide away. " http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/sep/12/die-antwoord-music-feature I think a lot could be written here about the relationship to Coloured culture. Ninja isn't talking about "poor whites," rednecks or white trash - he is referring to coloureds, as the Mahala interview points out. Totorotroll (talk) 12:59, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First, the whole redneck vs. white trash thing is really a debate about a Reuters' reporter's seriously bad misunderstanding of (American) culture. He should have never pointed specifically to redneck as an equivalent translation to zef, in doing so, he got it very very wrong. Redneck is very specific, and not akin to what zef is. As far as zef being culture of the coloureds, I believe you're also off-base there. I would assume that zef culture does include people of many races. Given, the article itself may have taken Ninja's quote slightly out of context, but as far as your quote of "Ninja on Zef" -- I believe he's not really referring to zef specifically there, but rather to Afrikaans curses, which are rather vulgar and used less publicly by the older Afrikaans community than the younger set; he's discussed this before elsewhere. It may also be that like cockney english, the zef subculture swearing is more colorful than simple Afrikaans swearing. Yolandi's quote on Zef is a lot more descriptive of where the Zef culture came from and what it encompasses. A good page on what zef really is/where it came from is here: http://www.news24.com/Entertainment/SouthAfrica/The-Dummies-guide-to-Zef-20100216 Additional searches back up the Zephyr car flashy culture. As far as the Mahala interview goes -- it was just a bunch of in-character posturing, and didn't really amount to real answers, it's only sort of stated that the interviewer feels that he sounds coloured and Ninja kind of belittles the interviewer on that point. Centerone (talk) 06:22, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, and I take the point that Ninja was talking about Afrikaans swearing in general. I just find it a bit sad that the international press eg The Guardian are ignorant of the source of a lot of this language, and of the practice of mixing English and Afrikaans while talking, and I was pleased that the Mahala interview at least mentioned "Kaapse taal." Totorotroll (talk) 16:07, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Red neck is the wrong term in this context. Afrikaans speakers use the term rooinek (literally 'red neck') to refer to the British, or to White South Africans of British descent.^[1] Rob Kam (talk) 14:04, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I Reckon this sentence at the beginning is a popular assumption but its not verifiable, its assuming what their motives are: "He is known for adopting different stage personas. In the case of Die Antwoord his persona is Ninja: a hyper violent character who is very different from his previous incarnations" If anyone cares to correct it or remove it, Wikipedia would be grateful. Uit.Hari Bhajan (talk) 21:36, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

indeed, my first thought is the second half of that sentence has WP:V problems... ---Kaini (talk) 05:14, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First, this should probably get it's own section. I really have to wonder what you think is "not verifiable". Waddy Jones is definitely known for adopting different personas, this is a fact and is easily verifiable. He even talks about it in previous works. (See Max Normal.TV video Total F**k Up as a particular example.) "In the case of Die Antwoord his persona is Ninja" -- once again a fact and easily verifiable. as to "a hyper violent character who is very different from his previous incarnations." I think this is quite obvious and not a matter of contentious debate, that being said, I suppose it could be stated in a different way, however, describing very fine variations in expression of character is difficult to do accurately and in a clear manner. Hari, also please don't claim to speak for the intentions or desires of Wikipedia. Centerone (talk) 10:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

just a heads up - the articles for $O$ and 5 (Die Antwoord EP) are up for deletion at the moment - if interested, have a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/5 (Die Antwoord EP) and Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/$O$ --Kaini (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

this article is definitely improving... but 'hyper violent' is annoying me, and it's inaccurate regardless of if we're talking about an assumed persona or otherwise... ninja is certainly foul-mouthed, but 'hyper violent'? 'gangsta' might be accurate, but it's hardly encyclopaedic. --Kaini (talk) 04:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to "vulgar and aggressive", which seems to fit. Dylan Flaherty (talk) 03:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I like it. -zorblek (talk) 03:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone have a source for the new lineup listed here? As far as I know, Wanga was just a guest artist, and I haven't heard anything about the other changes. -zorblek (talk) 04:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

agreed. and vuilgeboost is just their tour dj/stand-in for dj hi-tek when unavailable, i believe --Kaini (talk) 19:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DJ Hi Tek never existed, he was just a friend that was asked to be in the videos and photoshoots. Die Antwoord started with Justin De Nobrega as the DJ, and now Vuilgeboost is the fulltime DJ.Steve37 (talk) 10:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, i also heard that nobrega wrote most of the beats on $O$. however, this leaves us with a problem - considering the group are kinda - how should i put this - constantly blurring the line between fact and fiction, as well as receiving absolutely crazy media attention at present, finding a WP:V source for anything other than "ninja, yolandi, dj hi-tek" for members is going to be problematic. --Kaini (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Their web site is up to date, but it definitely lists DJ Hi-Tek. It also has some information about their relatives. Dylan Flaherty (talk) 23:38, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, on the other hand, this lists the band as Ninja, Yolandi and de Nobrega. It lists Hi-Tek for the first album, but not the second, and not as a current member. Dylan Flaherty (talk) 02:23, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

discogs ain't usable as a source though, as far as i know - because it is, in essence, user-editable like wiki. --Kaini (talk) 02:49, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you reckon the CD booklets would have the actual production details on? Because now that it's being ditributed by a major label, I doubt they'll be able to keep saying "DJ Hi-Tek". Wouldn't it be something like '(W.Jones, J. De Nobrega)' under the tracks or something? But by the looks of it, they've only got Session and Live DJS. Would it make sense that Die Antwoord are only a duo? Think about it. It's only those 2 everywhere. Steve37 (talk) 22:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

that's a good idea - actually when i think about it, BMI could be a valuable resource too - they're more or less responsible for confirming The Tuss as Aphex Twin and also for disclosing the identity of Burial --Kaini (talk) 23:11, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DJ Hi Tek makes an apperance in the beginning of the 'Zef Side' video, please check that out because this article is incorrect in stating that nobody knows if he exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.130.7 (talk) 14:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

he also appears in the video for 'fok jullie naaiers', and is clearly a completely different person in that video. Kaini (talk) 15:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First, sorry for the bad English, I hope you understand what I mean. The Wiki article says that Die Antwoord does not "acknowledge whether DJ Hi-Tek is a real person". But this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Bt1cMEupQ shows Ninja saying "DJ Hi-Tek used to be one of my fokken best friends in the whole fokken universe", and using the fact that "DJ Hi-Tek is gay" as an evidence to the fact that they are not homophobic. Isn't that an "acknowledgment" of the reality of DJ Hi-Tek, considering the seriousness of the video ? 92.163.20.46 (talk) 17:56, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DJ Hi-Tek has been various people in various videos. the closest we have to a 'real' hi-tek is justin de nobrega, who is co-producer with waddy on most die antwoord tracks. Kaini (talk) 18:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you can't take what Waddy says while acting as Ninja in the videos, or in the interviews as serious.Centerone (talk) 18:58, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I added a list of current members to expand the real name of him per the source. Widefox; talk 16:11, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• DJ HI-TEC is whatever man, a PC computer and Ninja's left hand! 122.109.124.9 (talk) 21:44, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article says that DJ Hi-Tek is DJ Leon Botha and died in 2011. http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2011/06/die-antwoord-dj-dies-from-rare-disease.html ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.74.64.243 (talk) 23:29, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article simply got things wrong. Leon Botha was a South African Hip Hop fan and amazing artist/painter, as well as DJ (under the name DJ Solarize) who was friends with the group. He was in the break-through video Enter The Ninja and so people made the wrong assumption that he was DJ Hi-Tek. He did pass away and have a medical condition that contributed to that. Centerone (talk) 03:42, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Why not acknowledge this anywhere on the page. It seems like Justin de Nobrega is a producer on most songs, but confusingly Tony Cotrell (the US based other DJ Hi-Tek) is also listed? talk 14 December 2018

I propose merging Zef into Die Antwoord. The reasoning is lack of independent sources establishing the neologism, the term is closely involved with the band and associated artists. Widefox; talk 15:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Support as per Widefox, outside of South Africa the term Zef is rarely used except in association with the band. Kaini (talk) 15:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose A merge would be incorrect. Zef is not a neologism. I am a South African and personal experience tells me that the word has been in use for about 40 years, long before Die Antwoord was formed. 'the term is closely involved with the band' you have the association the wrong way around: the band is closely involved with the term. Zef is not an invention of Die Antwoord. I can't cite you sources, but I would be surprised if none exist given that zef has been in use for so long. The assertion 'outside of South Africa the term Zef is rarely used except in association with the band' is spurious. Inside South Africa and worldwide amongst SA expats it is often used. In general most South Africans who use the word don't even know about Die Antwoord.Zahistorics (talk) 14:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)— Zahistorics (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. I have now found a web reference to what should be a reliable source on zef, has sent the site a request to contact the authorZahistorics (talk) 15:44, 26 July 2013 (UTC)— Zahistorics (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

That may be true, but here we rely on WP:V. Can you provide sources? Widefox; talk 14:38, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose This idea should be DOA. It's like merging valley girl with moon unit. It's like merging newspaper with the New York Times. Centerone (talk) 17:11, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We do that all the time - e.g. a WP:BLP commonly has an organisation or some other section. If the term is only used in connection with Die Antwoord and an associated act, and there's sourcing issues WP:SPINOUT seems prudent (despite the several WP:SPA Oppose !votes here. Widefox; talk 01:52, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Are you kidding me? Did you even read what I wrote? You don't seem to grasp the point at all. Nor do you seem to have enough information on this subject. Centerone (talk) 05:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not just me - see other editors remarks at Talk:Zef. The burden is on those wanting to keep this from merging to provide sources so we can WP:V this adequately. You're right I don't have enough information on it - there's a lack of sources. Do you have some (independent of DA) to back your claims? Widefox; talk 14:38, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Tell you what, I will support this IF and ONLY if we merge Radio broadcasting with WKRP in Cincinnati first. Because, of course, WKRP is entirely representative of every radio station out there, and is really the only real one. Do you get it yet? You seem to be intentionally missing the point of my statement above. How about some additional points? 1) Die Antwoord is not the originator of the term zef or the culture. 2) At least two or three music groups that are well-known outside of South Africa can be considered to in some way represent or embrace the zef culture, Jack Parow, Die Antwoord, and Fokofpolisiekar. 3) Just because an article discusses or references zef in relation to Die Antwoord doesn't mean that zef is solely the proponent of Die Antwoord. It's just that zef is a small subculture that is not well-respected. It wasn't well-known outside of Sud Afrika until Die Antwoord broke initially, so now many if not most of the easily findable English language articles on the subject reference both. It's very similar to Guido_(slang), or others as previously referenced. Centerone (talk) 17:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose As per above opposes 175.38.161.16 (talk) 06:21, 5 August 2013 (UTC)— 175.38.161.16 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Oppose Zef is a recognised sub-culture, whilst Die Antwoord is a band. It is fair to say that many people who live in countries/regions with little exposure to South African culture may only have heard of "zef" through Die Antwoord, and that the band actively promotes it, however this does not mean the term is "rarely used except in association with the band" by any means. That may be somewhat accurate among culturally isolated people, outside of South Africa, however, as this is an english language page, and english is an official language in South Africa, the page is certainly useful for providing an explanation of the expression and to give an idea of its origins. As of 18 December 2013, the page doesn't do this very well, and does need significant improvement, but it should certainly exist in its own right. In addition, there are communities of South African emigrants living in many other english speaking countries accross the world, and it is likely to be a known expression within these communities as well, even if not commonly used. The origins of the similar expression chav, commonly heard in England (and to a lesser extent in Wales) are equally hard to establish, with numerous possible explanations cited. The existence of the expression, or whether it deserves a wikipedia page, isn't in question though, due to its existence being far more widely recognised (larger population base, with far more influence over mass media than that of South Africa, for example), even if its origins are also not so widely recognised. The question marks over Zef are certainly raised by the exposure the expression has gained through Die Antwoord's international successes, and indeed many of the references to the expression on the internet are connected to Die Antwoord as they can be credited with "making Zef famous" http://www.academia.edu/1997994/Zef_Poor_White_Kitsch_Chique_Die_Antwoords_Comedy_of_Degradation. By extension, when Kaini mentions that the expression is rarely "used" except in association with the band, that would be true if we were to assume the expression's only use was on the internet, or that the use of the expression on the internet was a direct reflection of its usage in informal conversation. The main problem with the Zef page is that the article is incoherent and badly written, and as is makes its origins seem more closely linked to Die Antwoord than they maybe should be. M3J8NN (talk) 23:24, 18 December 2013 (UTC) — M3J8NN (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Even that source proves the point - the topic is Die Antwoords. See WP:NEOLOGISM and WP:SLANG. Widefox; talk 01:52, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What the heck are you talking about? In what POSSIBLE way does the article at academia.edu prove your point?? There are SO many points in that article that differentiate Zef from Die Antwoord, and associate it with others. However, I'll just take one quote: " The term originated in the 1950s and 60s to deride working class driving souped-up Ford Zephyrs with flash wings." Centerone (talk) 18:34, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• This is a year-old discussion that clearly decided against merger, and we recently reached a similar conclusion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zef. And Zef is not equivalent to Die Antwoord, not when you have sources like The Mercury and The Guardian, respectively, calling Jack Parow the "godfather of zef" [2] and "the Afrikaans Eminem", "praised for his authenticity" in an article about Zef in contrast to the doubts raised on that score about Die Antwoord.[3]. --Arxiloxos (talk) 03:06, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment "Clearly" yes in terms of votes (especially including the WP:SPAs). It is not a WP:VOTE though and not closed, and the SPAs above and the sourcing issues at the AfD could (instead) have been discounted by a closing admin. Please see the sourcing in the article and the editors comments on Talk:Zef, I'll ping them here for a wider discussion User:Malnormalulo, User:WikiMot User:Evilandi User:Ashmoo User talk:Wiki Wikardo User:Sammy1339 User:ZX95 User:Arxiloxos User:Kaini so we can close this. BTW, the Jack Parow article has similar BLP sourcing issues. Widefox; talk 15:04, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(relisted to gain more participants and have policy / guideline based arguments based on independent WP:SECONDARY WP:RS (i.e. interviews with Die Antwoord do not count) - due to these issues, and the sources listed at the AfD.) Sourcing issues - fails WP:GNG - notability is not shown and is not WP:INHERITED from DA topic. Relist to generate more comments (sources at AfD were not independent of AD, and the merge discussion above had several WP:SPAs without convincing policy based arguments/sources) and replace merge tags removed during discussion. Widefox; talk 14:09, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Again, as stated above, there is no reason for this relisting. Zef is not equivalent to Die Antwoord. We just had this discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zef. This is just a reargument of the points resolved there. I am not an SPA and neither is Centerone, nor were the participants at the AfD. And we don't discount constructive input from SPAs. There's plenty of evidence for the separate notability of this topic. As for Jack Parow, there are more than 300 news sources identified at HighBeam Research alone. [4]--Arxiloxos (talk) 15:14, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The reasoning is above. The merge discussion has not been closed, and I want to close it either way as we agree it's old. 2 non-SPAs vs 1 nom and 1 Supporter (not including the comments of other editors at the talk page) is far from "clear" just on votes. Where are these sources - the ones at the AfD were all DA related. Unless they can be presented, the term doesn't appear independent, does it? Sources welcome from SPAs or not. We can't make a judgement that it is independent until we can WP:V, and things failing V should be dealt with per policy/guideline. I personally favour a merge rather than deletion as it has RS (which are largely DA interviews, and the AfD was a mistake as there was already an open merge proposal). Widefox; talk 15:34, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose merge: The concept of Zef dates back to the 70ies and deserves coverage here as much as other, often more obscure, subcultures are covered here. See these sources for historical context (and yes, they do mention Die Antwoord, but also clearly show that the concept dates from much earlier):

• http://www.mtviggy.com/articles/what-the-hell-is-zef-the-hottest-thing-in-south-africa-besides-the-world-cup-thats-what/
• http://www.news24.com/Entertainment/SouthAfrica/The-Dummies-guide-to-Zef-20100216

The article could use improvement, but not a merger. --Reinoutr (talk) 20:53, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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hello - yolandi made a post on her instagram regarding the exlaim article saying it was not true, so i removed the sentence. i was not logged in at the time, but regardless, it has been removed with good reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gemsbokian (talk • contribs) 17:38, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I would like to propose an edit in the Media section of this article. The proposed edit would add a source to one of the quotations there. It is as follows:

Before: They have filmed a short film with American filmmaker Harmony Korine.[35] The short film premiered at SXSW as Umshini Wam (in reference to the Zulu struggle song "Umshini wami") and features "furry costumes, wheelchairs, a music video breakdown, and plenty of zef slang."[citation needed]

After: They have filmed a short film with American filmmaker Harmony Korine.[35] The short film premiered at SXSW as Umshini Wam (in reference to the Zulu struggle song "Umshini wami") and features "furry costumes, wheelchairs, a music video breakdown, and plenty of zef slang."[5]

Apologies for the formatting, this is new to me. Thanks Username.txt (talk) 06:51, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is anyone familiar with The Constructus Corporation? We recently had an editor add quite a bit of false information elsewhere on Wikipedia and I'm not sure how much of the article is accurate. I figured that it'd be a good idea to ask for help here, since you guys might know more about this group than I would, given that Ninja is a member. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 10:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Good day fellow editors,

There have been some recent developments in Die Antwoord's history regarding allegations put forth by Australian rapper Zheani (no page exists for her at the moment). In her diss track "The Question," Zheani claims that Die Antwoord member Ninja (aka Watkin Tudor Jones) groomed and abused her among other things, and that Yolandi Visser is complacent and even acts as an agent for the abuse. ^[2]

Since I am new to Wikipedia I did not feel comfortable putting forth the edits for this, because the subject is somewhat contested until either side proves or disproves Zheani's claims. Die Antwoord's lawyers issued a cease and desist^[3] to her and the artists themselves denied all of her claims, but Zheani shows text messages and screenshots as evidence in her music video.

I have created this topic on the talk page in hopes that more experienced editors can judge and discuss whether anything new should be written on the pages of either Die Antwoord or Ninja on the subject.

I am not advocating for either side in this talk page entry, nor am I putting it forward with any specific agenda in mind. I just don't yet know whether it should become a part of these articles yet and I'd like to see it discussed.

Best of luck!

Regards,

»λᴏᴘᴀǫᴜᴀɴᴅʀɪᴄᴀ^tαlk 14:05, 24 May 2019 (UTC

It should definately be in there. The only reason it isn't is because pathetic DA and Ninja stans are in denial about their idol being a rapist. 27.32.62.45 (talk) 00:38, 10 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Definitly worth noting if true. However. I have yet to see this written neutral (WP:NPOV) and everytime it has been unsourced or poorly sourced. The above citations do not qualify as reliable sources for this type of serious information. StaticVapor message me! 04:23, 10 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the fact that you didn't bother to fix the citations and find more reliable sources but rather deleted the whole thing multiple times clearly shows you are interested in denying this ever happened - 27.32.62.45 (talk) 11:31, 10 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am more interested in protecting the BLP policy of Wikipedia, more then protecting this one person's reputation. StaticVapor message me! 00:46, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hej, two videos are missing on here.

• $copie
• In Your Face

I don't have info on director and release year, though. Best regards, IP 77.183.147.67 (talk) 17:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It says:

...formalizing her accusations of supposed sexual assault and revenge porn, which she failed.

What does this mean? That she failed to prove her accusations? That the police failed to listen? Something else? 2A00:23C5:FE18:2700:484D:6EBB:C479:EF5F (talk) 06:19, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the discussion at WP:BLPN#Die Antwoord. I don't think these items are WP:DUE on this article. John (talk) 16:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]