Talk:Cue stick

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Cue sports Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pool, carom billiards and other cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Cue sports to-do list: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Lots of high-priority articles need to be created: List of wanted articles... Games: A bunch of high-priority game redlinks, e.g. American four-ball billiards (redirs to Four-ball billiards but not specifically covered there) "Legends": Edwin Kelly, Charlie Peterson (pool player) (all BCA Hall of Famers); George Franklin Slosson, Maurice Daly (billiards player), Frank Ives, George Butler Sutton [not George H. Sutton, the one with no hands] Male pool bios: Hsia Hui-kai Female pool bios: Male three-cushion bios: Dion Nelin & Jozef Bel Philipoom Female carom bios: Aygen Berk Saygıner Aristic pool bios: Nick Nikolaidis, Mark Dimick,Sebastian Giumelli, Eric Yow Unranked in current pool but notable: Mike Eufemia, Shannon Daulton, Jimmy Reid (pool player) [speed pool champ], var. Mosconi Cup players Non-player figures: Mitch Laurance, George Fels Five-pins bios: Gustavo Zito Organizations: Joss Tour Events: WPA World Nine-ball Championships (pre-1997), BCA Open Nine-ball Championship, World 14.1 Continuous Championship, International Challenge of Champions (pool) Media and misc.: Iwan Simonis (leading billiard cloth maker), Joss Cues (major cue mfr.), The Baron and the Kid [Johnny Cash film], Ultimate Pool Party [TV show] And: everyone/thing listed at WP:CUEGAMES, WP:CUEEVENTS, WP:CUEORGS, WP:CUEBIOS, & WP:CUEMISC. Also a Cue sports world records article (many can be pulled from bio articles like Geet Sethi, Guinness Book will provide others, and so will BCA and other orgs., websites and books like Shamos 1999). Meta: Outline of cue sports (OoK; cf. [1], etc.) – presently redirects to Cue sports, but this is not an OoK page. Internal pages: Something like: [2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf. [4][5][6]). Cleanup : Thomas Engert, Marlon Manalo Copyedit : Jonni Fulcher Expand : Cue sports techniques#Carom shots (section needs to exist), Straight pool, Alfredo de Oro,Jeanette Lee (pool player) NPOV : Andy Segal (major WP:COI and WP:V issues, too), Jose Parica (it's bad!); Efren Reyes, Thomas Engert, Dennis Orcollo, Dick Jaspers Photo : Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports people Split : List of World Eight-ball Champions - blackball stuff needs own article {draft split from real eight-ball one (draft). Stubs : loads of players in Category:Cue sports stubs Update : Arcade game (link to bagatelle, bar billiards, etc.) Verify : Cue stick (mostly WP:OR!), Frank Taberski (has major fact conflict between BCA & NYT sourcing), Russian pyramid, add sources to Unreferenced BLPs Wikify : Chicago (pool), Jonni Fulcher Other : Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of nine-ball, timeline of Willie Mosconi's career, etc.). Form sections: Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections? CopyVio rewrite: Clarify: What is the "continuous pool" listed above "14.1 continuous" at Alfredo DeOro? Delete or defend: Move/Rename (and Redirect): Redirect: Unorphan: Ensure: that rules discussions in game articles & the Billiard techniques article do not violate WP:NOT#IINFO. Help fix: WP:CUEBIOS#Pool players (women) is nearly empty! Help develop: the lists of WP:CUEORGS and WP:CUEEVENTS Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD. Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see Ding Junhui for example). Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g. 1965 in sports), using {{subst:Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet. Change: Replace: Some day: Seek Featured Topic status. Plunder: the French article; it does have some interesting tidbits, structure and images. Check out de.wikipedia, etc., as well. Inter-wiki: Improve simple:Billiards and foreign-language key articles. See also: Snooker to-do list Note: To watchlist this to-do list, click on "watch" at top right of this table. Watching the page it is transcluded on won't watch the to-do list.

From article:

"The important factor when picking a cue is that it feels balanced to you and the weight and length give you confidence at the table. An irish linen wrap on the pool cue is nice as it give you a nice grip, and absorbs moisture from your hand. Irish Linen historically came from fishing line manufacturers in Ireland."

Encyclopedias never refer to the person reading them, the article needs to be reworded again. --Mattwolf7 (00:40, 21 Jan 2004)

This was in reference to the article as it was three years ago, so I'm marking this "Resolved". Any further concerns with article text should be raised in new topics. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is about "cue stick" within the scope of billiards, snooker, and other games where the cue is used to strike a ball. There is at least one other common type of cue: The Floor (aka "Deck") Shuffleboard cue. I would be helpful to readers, for this article to have near the beginning, a sentence or short paragraph about other types of cue sticks. Can that be done? Thanks. I would supply some references but am unsure of how to do much of that just yet. PoorWIliam (talk) 17:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there's a difference between pool cues, billiard cues, and snooker cues, I think this article should exist at cue (sport) or some such thing... Evercat 00:59, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

There are in fact differences, as the article now addresses. However, they do not all need articles, so the article has in fact been moved, not split. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note that this article was cut'n'paste-moved from Pool cue --Improv 14:42, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have merged in the two topics that were at Talk Pool cue, so it's no longer an issue, other than the edit history doesn't go back to the true beginning. We'd need admin attention to fix that. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone please change the picture, the cue isn't shown in enough detail it should have a cue with all of it's parts labelled. Here's the picture of a good one.

128.6.175.27 20:27, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It shall be done. — ßottesiηi ^{Tell me what's up} 16:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of a cue being made of carbon fiber or aluminum. They usually have an inner core that is wood and the outside may be some other material. Changed this, as well as added some more information. 128.6.175.27 20:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This may no longer be true; bears further research. The new Hybrid brand cue may or may not have a wood core. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen aluminum cues; beer companies give them away as promotional tools. I've also seen aluminum cues for sale in discount stores. I've never seen one produced by a "known" cue-maker. They tend to bend and become unusable. I've never seen a carbon-fiber cue, but I've seen cues with a wood core that is jacketed with fiberglass. These are usually used as house cues, since the fiberglass resists denting and rough use.Jayess (talk) 22:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Years later: Yeah, all the carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc., ones still have a wooden core so far as I've seen. I don't find anything reliably sourced on alternative materials, other than as antiques, or as experimental modern stuff that does not seem to be encyclopedically relevant (yet).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I sell totally woodfree cuesticks @ facebook.com/timberfreegraphitepoolsnookerbilliardscuesticks @ buypoolsnookerbilliardscuesportscuesticksonline.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.212.126.25 (talk) 09:08, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've expanded many topics as well as added some that I thought we're important. This article looks much better than when I first encountered it. Tell me what you think! 70.111.251.203 02:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Needs to be thoroughly converted to good prose, not prescriptive talk - MPF 00:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it definitely needs major cleanup work as noted by MPF. Lots of material added, but "Normally, one wants to..." language is not appropriate in an encyclopedia: Wikipedia is not a how-to book or an advice column. Retagging the article for cleanup. Also, you did not provide any sources at all, so you have effectively endangered the entire article for deletion per the no original research policy. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Butt: "The butt of cheaper cues are usually spiced hardwood and a plastic covering while more high-end cues use solid rosewood or ebony." 'spiced'? or 'spliced' (I know essentially nothing about the subject). --204.112.214.216 23:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Should have been "spliced". Fixed. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hit or feel are very important to pool players, but never quantified. Obviously the perception of cue vibration or resonance is part of it (maybe all of it.) But these forces are not measured. And clearly people's perceptions vary. I think the current section on hit or feel is a bit pointless, because the author did not even try to quantify what is being discussed - good luck finding any scientific discussion of the topic.

Hit and feel are clearly subjective making any discussion on correlation between cue construction and perception of the forces involved in a hit very difficult to discuss in an objective fashion. Manufacturers love to talk about the hit or feel of their cues; but once again, they can't quantify anything.

I suggest the whole section be truncated. At very least it should attempt to explain what is meant by hit and feel. Of course I can only speculate what is meant. It seems clear that the factors involved are the ability of the cue stick to dissapate energy, and resonance (both upon impact and immediately afterwards.)

---

I agree completely. "Hit" and "Feel" are nonsense concepts developed by marketing firms and their paid endorsers, as is the concept of "deflection" or "squirt". Having this sort of nonsense in the Wikipedia article just lends credibility to the advertising claims of cue companies without providing any real, usable information to the reader. Jayess (talk) 10:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not true, actually, with regard to the latter two terms (very well sourceable cue sports physics concepts, and accurately measurable). I agree with the "hit" and "feel" assessment, at least as this has been written. I'm not sure anything encyclopedic can be written about them.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"There are also cues that have more, notably three to five" three to five what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.252.46.221 (talk) 00:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken this out of the "construction aspects" section:

A high-quality but plain two piece cue, that looks like one-piece, run-of-the-mill house or bar cue, is called a sneaky pete. Such cues have a joint that is wood-on-wood, and barely visible. The subterfuge often enables a hustler to fool unsuspecting gamblers into thinking that he or she is an unskilled player with no regard for equipment quality or finesse, until too late.

Is this term really well known in the world of cue sports? I think not, but please put it back if I'm wrong. pablo :_{:  ... hablo ...} 13:36, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's extremely well know; ubiquitous even. Of course, the entry was unsourced, as is the bulk of the article. I think I sourced Sneaky Pete's etnry in the Glossary, so if anyone wants to place it back with a source, visit there.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Rewrote it as well, to use fewer hyphenated phrases. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to talk as unreferenced (and possible howto) RJFJR (talk) 13:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC) Each shaft has its own "pivot point" which is directly determined by the amount of cue ball deflection or "squirt" it produces. The calculated pivot point for each shaft is measured from the front of the tip. If one bridges exactly at a shaft's pivot point and holds the bridge very steady, one can pivot the cue by moving one's back hand and no matter where one strikes the cue ball it will track off on the same line as if struck dead center. Pivot points are interesting and may be useful but the player must also consider "swerve" and "throw". Swerve is the tendency of the cue ball to curve slightly in the direction of the applied sidespin, like a mild form of massé. Throw is caused by the friction between the cue ball and the object ball and is much stronger than most realize – for example, if one shoots a straight in shot firmly with left spin and hit the back of the pocket, if a snapshot could be taken at the moment the cue ball contacts the object ball one would see that the balls are actually aligned significantly to the left of the center of the pocket. There is a popular "pivot point test" that uses this sort of straight shot to determine pivot points but because the throw effect was not considered people have been getting wildly inaccurate results. [7]^{[dead link]}[reply]

It's true, and could be edited down easily to be non-howto, but does need a reliable source (not a deadlink to a WP:SPS. :-)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to talk, is this really the kind of cue the article is about? RJFJR (talk) 13:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC) Small cue sticks are also used in the tabletop puck game novuss and other cued variants of carrom.[reply]

In deck shuffleboard long cues are used to propel pucks down the court. Unlike billiard cues, but more like the ancestral mace, the shuffleboard cue features a broad head, used for shoving, but not striking. The head is sometimes similar to an elongated croquet mallet, but more commonly it is not unlike a small shovel with an edge that may either be straight, or curved in a half-moon shape to better hold and direct the puck. The implement may be all-wooden, or made of other materials, such as metal, plastic or fiberglass.

It's still a cue. All these implements derive ultimately from something called the mace, similar to a golf putter. I think the article goes into this in detail sufficient to make this clear, but I guess it could enriched somewhat. We probably really need a Cue (sports) page and Puck (sports) page to generally cover billiards and non-billiards cues, and hockey and non-hockey pucks, respectively, per WP:CONCEPTDAB and WP:SUMMARY.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I went to add what I perceive as missing conversions in this article for the cue tip sizes, which are given in mm only when then rest of the article uses imperial measurements first. However, I see there is a hidden comment, "Don't convert; cue tips are ALWAYS specified in mm, even in the US". As I understand the point of the convert template it is to help readers who are unfamiliar with either metric or imperial units, rather than any reflection of how they are specified in the source (c.f. Road speed limits in the United Kingdom). I therefore think that this article would be better if the mm tip sizes are converted to imperial measurements, but with a footnote (including a citation) that the tip sizes are specified in mm even in countries that use imperial for other cue dimensions. Or am I missing something? Thryduulf (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've left messages inviting comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cue sports and Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Thryduulf (talk) 19:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you; I would add the conversions. If people are likely to be misled into thinking tip sizes are measured in inches in the US but this is not the case, we could make the HTML comment into a visible footnote. -sche (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How is it done on articles relating to guns and ammunition? This seems comparable to that. Formerip (talk) 20:11, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the Calibre article and a random selection of articles linked from it, my impression is that the area is a complete mess. The most common seems to use conversions most of the time, but some don't use them except in the infobox, sometimes they're treated as names and sometimes as dimensionless numbers. .22 Long Rifle for example seems to use all styles. Thryduulf (talk) 21:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(copied over from WT:MOS#Cue tip size by 174.141.182.82 (talk) 17:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)) Not knowing the details, I would accept that statement to mean you should not use the disp=flip option on convert. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it's harmless conversion, as long as we state in the article that they're specified in mm even in the US. Same goes for ounces. I bought cue in Europe the other year, and its weight was given in ounces, not grams or kilos. Some traditions die hard.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  01:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the title of this page should be 'pool cues' as opposed to 'cue stick'. I know, as an avid pool player and collector for 30 years, that the obvious search for me to find information about pool cues on wikipedia would be to search for 'pool cues', not 'cue sticks'. That name 'cue sticks' is stuck in the 1970's and earlier. The category of 'pool cues' could then be subcategorized into 'carom cues', 'custom pool cues', 'billiard cues', 'production cues', and such. They are all unique with their own history and worthy of their own articles.

Tyankee (talk) 01:01, 16 April 2015 (UTC)tyankee[reply]

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Judging by the lingo, the casual observer would assume that cue sports are of american invention, completely bypassing the British/Indian root connection - ivory balls (elephants), etymology of terms such as snooker, billiards, etc which are definitely non-american.

Much of this Wankerpedia article is so americentric that it borders on being unencyclopaedic.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Samsbanned (talk • contribs) 17:21, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Samsbanned: "American" only appears in the article twice, in both cases back-to-back with mention of the UK or Europe. This article happens to have been written in American English, so it will naturally use American vocabulary (fiber, aluminum), just as almost all snooker articles are written in British English and use spellings appropriate for it; see MOS:ENGVAR. For any cue-sports-specific term that is different in North American versus British/Commonwealth usage, it's perfectly permissible to do something like {{cuegloss|mechanical bridge}} ({{cuegloss|rest}}) (just make sure that there are entries at Glossary of cue sports terms that match the templated terms); or to write something more explanatory, as we did about "side", "sidespin" and "english". I.e., don't vent and fingerpoint; WP:JUSTFIXIT.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  19:00, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A certain editor seems to be oblivious to other people's preferences. Not everyone eats meat or enjoys playing with the remnants of a carcass attached to the tip of one's cue. Stop being a smart arse and pay attention to others' needs. Samsbanned (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2017 (UTC) Have it as you will. I really don't care. I won't waste my time talking a contrary point of view as you seem to have your head screwed on one way. Don't thank me for my contribution either (why do I even bother with Wankerpedia control freaks?). Feel free to delete everything you didn't write. Samsbanned (talk) 19:10, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:NPOV policy, and WP:COATRACK. It is not permissible to hijack an article about one topic to advance a socio-political agenda about vegetarianism or anything else. See also WP:CIVIL and WP:BATTLEGROUND; if you continue to interpret every disagreement with you (and continue to ignore the policy-based rationales people give you for their disagreement) you are not going to last long here. This is not a game for you to try to win, it is an encyclopedia with extremely specific editing requirements.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  19:20, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]