Talk:Catacomb Church

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This article contains a translation of Катакомбная церковь from ru.wikipedia.

Archives

Archive 1

Speaking of which I have a question to the article's authors. In which way the link with UAOC implies the apostolic succession?

1. Correct me if I am wrong but the original UAOC's claim on the apostolic succession is rather strechted. If I remember correctly, the relics were used in the ordaining its first bishops, rather than the real bishops. Please elaborate.
2. If the succession is meant through the link of UOC's of Canada (or the USA) with the Ecumenical Patriarch that currently exists, it is again not clear how this affects the UAOC itself since both the UOCoC and UOCoUSA are separate from the UAOC churches. Finally, canonicity of UOCoC and oUSa is not universally recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Communion despite their acceptance by Constantinople. This is perhaps just a matter of time.

Please elaborate anyone and correct me if I made any mistakes. I hope this is more interesting and useful than the copyright issues. Thanks, --Irpen 05:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1. The original UAOC's claim on the apostolic succession is rather irrelevant. This group apparently got its succession from modern ("third resurrection") UAOC, re-established 1990. Modern UAOC does not share succession with 1921 church and derives its succession AFAIK mostly from MP, with some participation from diaspora.
2. At the time of the "third resurrection", there were some links with diaspora churches. After all, first UAOC Patriarch was (however briefly) Met. Mstyslav of blessed memory, Primate of UOC of USA. I'm not sure how significant this is/was.
3. Alleged "non-recognition" of UOCoC and oUSa is a vicious rumor among some Russian Orthodox. Ukrainian bishops are members of both SCOBA and the new Assembly of Bishops of North and Central America, and no one (including ROC) seriously doubts their legitimacy. Come to think of it, it would be rather uncanonical for other Churches to try judging canonicity of individual eparchies within the Church of Constantinople. Sustymenko (talk) 05:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The problem of the article, contrary to the AfD nomination, is not lack of notability but a confusion. There are several denominations in Russia under similar names.

The most well-known is Русская Истинно-Православная Церковь (Russian True Orthodox Church)[1] also known as a "Catacomb church.

Another one is Истинно-Православная Церковь — Московская Митрополия (True Orthodox Church - Moscow Metropolia) formely known as Российскaя Истинно-Православная Церковь (Russia's True Orthodox Church)[2]. The TOC-MM seems to be the subject of this article, if I am not mistaken. So, it probably needs to be moved.

More info (in Russian) can be found here. (Skip to the 'Русские "альтернативные" православные церкви' section). --Irpen 05:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest moving it to True Orthodox Church - Moscow Metropolia as per above. The Russian True Orthodox Church is the name of a different nomination. Objections? --Irpen 19:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes! do it! You can find English about RTOC of Archbishop Tikhon at http://www.catacomb.org.ua/modules.php?name=Pages&go=page&pid=1099 Note that when you gave the brackets to 'Russian True Orthodox Church' it created a link back to this article. Richardson mcphillips1 04:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking something similar. I'd seen a group called the True Russian Orthodox Church in the news.[3][4][5][6] However it's clearly a different group.--T. Anthony (talk) 20:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Russian True Orthodox Church (Russkaya Istinno Pravoslavnaya Cerkov, RIPC) is a split from Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (Vitaliy Branch) - RPCZ(V), founded in 2000. RIPC has broken away from RPCZ(V) in 2002. Today, RIPC positions itself as successor of Catacomb Church. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.98.179.170 (talk) 11:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem as though underground has evolved into a pun, as the news networks have been describing True_Russian_orthodox members in a cave, some caves, tunnels,....

This article needs grammar.

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 15:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As it is, this entire article appears to be original research. Frjohnwhiteford (talk) 12:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most of it comes from the U.S. Web site for this church and should be sourced thereto. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 18:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Would everyone agree with the sentence "The Russian True Orthodox Church is a denomination that separated from the Russian Orthodox Church during the early years of Communist rule in the Soviet Union"? I'm not sure members of the RTOC would agree they are a 'denomination' (might be a semantic problem, maybe of translation) that 'separated'. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 20:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This page is called "True_Orthodox_Church" but should be called instead "The Russian True Orthodox Church". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Username148120 (talk • contribs) 05:30, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:RTOC - Russian True Orthodox Church which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:51, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Чръный человек: thanks again for your work. However, I have some doubt on the reliability of the "sergievhram.ru" website. It seems to simply be the website of a parish. Veverve (talk) 15:59, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, it is website of a parish. But this parish organized "Men readings" (Меневские чтения). The article taken from sergievhram.ru was a part of 2006 Men readings. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 07:07, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

what about https://ipckatakomb.ru/ They seem to be legit catacomb church

Ladnerg310 (talk) 07:27, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]