Talk:BTS/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about BTS. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Jimin (singer, born 1995) has been AFC approved, so please change links for this singer to point to this new article. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:02, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:48, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

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Hello, sorry for the inconvenience my request is not for you to change something of the article, but rather it is a concern, when you search in google bangtan boys and go to the members section before opening the link of the article appear only 6 members and V ( Kim Taehyung) appears as related searches, could you check that? thank you. Vante01 (talk) 03:58, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

@Vante01: We do not have any way to control what Google displays in search results. —C.Fred (talk) 04:01, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

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"On October 2018" = "In October 2018" 2605:E000:9149:8300:BD8B:F88D:27CA:DF63 (talk) 07:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

 Done Snowflake91 (talk) 09:44, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

I know this might seem like a minor thing to some, but please stick to the month/day/year format for ALL date parameters when editing the article! Consistency is an actual thing. Various editors worked hard to get the article raised to a B-class rating and consistency was specified as necessary during the process. Nearly all the most recent edits within the past few months have repeatedly used '3 September 2018' or '03-09-18' and this is incorrect. It also looks messy.

Also, please pay attention to the grammar and phrasing you use when making updates to the page. Those things are also important as well. I had to correct some of this yesterday, when whoever else is monitoring the page should be picking up on these discrepancies/mistakes and fixing them as they occur. I may have missed some for all ik but the page needs to stay current and properly worded and we're slacking in some places, eg. I've been the only one updating the social 50 charting period in the lead. I purposely leave it alone to see if anyone will update it but no one ever does and I usually end up doing it. If no one thinks it's important enough to be updated why do we even have it mentioned? Ik some editors think it's 'just a Wikipedia page' and therefore not that deep, but it's still held to a certain standard and needs to be upkept as such. - Carlobunnie (talk) 17:02, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Carlobunnie, you should be able to apply AutoEd or other tools to enforce MDY. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:06, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: I've been busy with life outside of Wikipedia recently, but I've been doing my best. Mono was just released and needed a page, and Jungkook, Jimin, and Jin recently got pages that also need to touched up a little bit. I've noticed you stay consistent with updating Social 50 so I tend to work on other things. I've gone through and fixed the dating... I'll keep an eye on that in the future. As for Social 50, do you think it's worth having the exact number in the lead? That feels like a tedious thing to have to keep updating, and I feel like saying they hold the record for most consecutive weeks and second-most total weeks is sufficient. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 17:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: I've been updating it because it was included in the lead and at no point did anyone state that it shouldn't be there. Imho since their social media power is intrinsically linked to their name (especially the social 50 run) I don't see why the number of weeks they maintain that standing shouldn't be specified. If I read something that mentions a record but doesn't actually specify it I'd naturally want to know what the record is so I think it's good that it's there. However if the consensus is that it isn't needed then we can remove it. I have no problem being the one to update it, just used it as a tiny example to highlight a bigger underlying problem with the maintenance of the page. And you aren't the only page watcher/editor (there's over 40 of us) so it shouldn't fall on the same people to be updating all the time y'know? I'm aware everyone has their own things to do so you need not justify how you spend your time to me. I know just how much work you put in here and on other pages. I was simply trying to appeal to other people to step up and be more active since we all supposedly have the same common vested interest in the page. - Carlobunnie (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

On the Toura and Concerts part Live Trilogy Episode I: The Red Bullet, but the actual name is Live Trilogy Episode I: BTS Begins. Also on the second paragraph of the part that talks about Artistry, there's an extra "that". Taegukqueen (talk) 23:36, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

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On the BTS page, I would like to request changing the "Beyond The Scene" thing to "Bulletproof Boyscouts" Beyond The Scene happens to not be correct. Thank You 76.164.154.223 (talk) 04:02, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

They have added the extra name to their meaning in English abrieviAtion so it can’t be omitted while their name means bulletproof boy scouts there is an extra meaning to make it easier for English people you can’t omit that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.247.233 (talk) 15:19, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Mz7 (talk) 02:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

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Requesting to remove Controversy section, as it was a false information to defame BTS. The shirt that Jimin wore depicts Korea's Liberation Day and anything that goes against that idea is not in any way intentional. People affected by the A-Bomb Shirt are also accusing BTS for supporting nazism which Bighit (BTS company Label) do not condone. SWC lacks deep investigation and jumped into accusing the boy group for something they didnt intend to do. Bighit apologized to the victims who are affected by the Atomic Bomb during WW2. They did nothing wrong. SWC should apologize for accusing BTS without proper investigation.

^[1] Kayem94 (talk) 08:20, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. Your argument that BigHit apologized for the clothing errors shows that the controversy is important to the topic. If it was not important, BigHit would have ignored it. And you failed to address the fact that dozens of major media sources have written about it. So removing the section is not the answer. Binksternet (talk) 09:18, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Requesting to move this "controversy" section underneath BTS' history instead of just its own section. This issue, though might seem relatively big mainly due to Western articles reporting everything about BTS for clicks due to their global presence, is not nearly as big enough to warrant its own section. This section in fact paints BTS in a negative light and the section right now is very poorly written and in fact seems biased against the group and not towards the SWC and right wing Japanese politicians.

-To give some perspective, TOP's scandal, Twice's controversy with the flag, and Hyuna being kicked out of Cube were much bigger issues than this and both have substantially impacted these artist's careers, but none of these controversies have warranted their own sections on the respective artists' pages. We have yet to see the repercussions of this controversy but besides the postponement of Music Station there have not been any and BTS' career has remained steady. If anything more arises from this then it should, but as of now, I request this to just be included into their history section. If not, then I think the other respective artists should also get added controversy sections as it would also be considered "big enough" and were also covered by reputable sources. Hahahey568 (talk) 21:47, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree. It has not impacted their career that much to have its own section. Justerrie (talk) 12:40, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

It's too early for anyone to know how much this controversy will affect BTS' career. Binksternet (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Can I please request that part of bighit statement which I find important to add is added to the controversy section....It was not the agency or the band that chose this outfit it was the magazine and the stylist etc I think this is an important point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:BA4E:8A00:5042:C823:B5C3:CA02 (talk) 19:39, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree as this information and the issue as a whole hasn't affected how their fans feels towards them, and how outside of Japan and Korea the issue seems almost non-existent. They're literally doing concerts in Japan currently and nothing has affected that so far. Marnikab (talk) 21:23, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree, especially considering that the japanese single they currently are promoting turned out to be the best selling one it seems like a reach that it had any kind of real impact on their career. The whole controversy was pushed by the japanese right-wing but the designer of the t-shirt has already made a statement clarifying the shirt. If in the future it turns out to have some kind of impact (what I doubt) it can still be added as an extra section but for now and without any proof of an impact it's useless to add it. Nexramas (talk) 21:47, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Since dozens of news agencies reported it, the controversy is already important enough to mention. It doesn't have to have a demonstrated impact on the band. The news reports are enough. Your arguments would be useful in limiting the coverage of the controversy, per WP:WEIGHT, but not in removing it. Binksternet (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, in general I'm pretty leery of "Controversies" sections in BLP articles. At the very least, I think the description of the controversy should go within the "History" section of the biography, rather than in a separate level 2 heading itself—per WP:WEIGHT this may be placing undue weight on the controversy. If this does have a major impact on the band, we could use a level 3/level 4 heading specifically identifying it—see how the Richard Nixon article does it for Watergate. Mz7 (talk) 09:46, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Placing the paragraph in the history section is a good idea. Binksternet (talk) 15:35, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Support moving to History. There's articles, even from Japanse sources (where the backlash was the biggest) that this will have no affect on their Japanese popularity, and Western news media seems to have moved on. Japan and Korea still have articles coming out but not with new info. Also, Hahahey568, please sign your comments with four tildes (~).DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 16:42, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

 Done [1] Mz7 (talk) 20:58, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Should the exhibitions bts have had be included on the page? I've seen other groups include them but I wasn't sure if we were supposed to. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 14:14, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't see why not. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 16:50, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

In min 2:56 RM said it clearly "many people consider it as like the behind the scene but which is not": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBEu2Tmy_L4?t=176 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guilraen (talk • contribs) 20:10, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

The article doesn't say that BTS means Beyond the Scene. It's a Backronym.--Lirim | Talk 04:54, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm not well acquainted with Korean Pop but know there is some controversy regarding contracting and working hours/conditions. Are there any sources that correlate this with BTS? Also recently BBC News reported on one of the band members wearing a controversial t-shirt depicting the Hiroshima atomic bomb leading to cancellation of the show in Japan. Maybe there is space to add this in the article whilst maintaining consistency and adding other related events to provide more information. Kunamesenpai (talk) 02:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

The cancellation of a Japanese show is not notable enough to be regarded as a controversy. There are not much repercussions regarding this issue, hence it is difficult to expand and write about it. It is also a one-off event and there are not much effects in the long run. As for the long contracts and working hours, it is highly unlikely as the members renewed their contracts which supposedly meant they are satisfied with their company. If you can find sources to support your claims and are also notable enough, you can discuss/ add it. Do read WP:NOTE for a more in-depth explanation. Requiem II (talk) 14:19, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

It is a big deal in Japan and covered in a lot of Japanese media. Not only was BTS' appearance on Music Station cancelled, but they were also taken off the list of consideration for the Kouhaku Uta Gassen, the exclusive end-of-the-year music program in Japan that only eligible artists are invited to (article from Sports Nippon). Also, a lot of international news sources have mentioned that BTS' shirt has caused controversy. It should at least be mentioned. lullabying (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Other things to add: BTS' controversy is also affecting other Korean artists in Japan, most notably Twice (as stated in this article by Sports Nippon). It's also affecting Twice's eligibility of being selected to perform for Kouhaku Uta Gassen (even though there are rumors saying they wouldn't be able to anyway because of "Yes or Yes" promotions). lullabying (talk) 21:36, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

So far there is no evidence of BTS' controversy actually affecting other Korean artists in Japan. Twice's participation in Kouhaku Uta Gassen was confirmed yesterday. Random86 (talk) 15:01, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Like the user above stated I haven't seen any proof BTS affected anyone's careers in Japan. I would say Twice has been more affected by JPN politicians wanting Twice axed out of shows because Dahyun wore a shirt that supported comfort women than anything. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

This removal is a violation of WP:NPOV as the story has been reported in the Guardian, the Telegraph, the Independent, NME News, Sputnik News, New York Daily News, Japan Times and more. It's widely reported and should be represented in the article for that reason only. If you bring up other reasons for the complete removal of this material then you are not addressing WP:WEIGHT. Binksternet (talk) 20:16, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Pinging Carlobunnie, Angeliniz and AdultBrat, all of whom have completely removed this controversy. Binksternet (talk) 20:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Right the article is misleading and doesn’t have the correct factual statements in if numerous newspapers said that grass was purple would we then have to edit this into a page as truth just coz a newspaper said so Statethefacts86 (talk) 22:10, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

How about the fact that far right Japanese politics group have been using any means necessary to take down Korean entertainers with bts being their sole target at present because they deny the wrongdoing against koreans. How about the fact that a court case just ruled that some companies will have to pay restitution to the victims of the war and these companies are In fact the sponsors of the music shows that bts and another Korean group were cancelled from or that the Korean Japanese summat was cancelled bts are being used as pawns and scapegoats for this political agenda nd it’s disgusting Statethefacts86 (talk) 22:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Looks like you are scrambling to come up with reasons to deny this widely reported story. All we have to do is tell the reader a summary of the news articles – we don't have to interpret the news to figure out what is right and what is wrong. Binksternet (talk) 00:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@Statethefacts86: Your arguments are approaching a call for censorship here for something you don't happen to like (and your user page summary suggests you are an WP:SPA in that regard. I completely agree with Binksternet and Maproom (see below) that a 'controversies' section is quite appropriate if the Simon Wiesenthal Centre has been moved to issue this statement on the Band's actions] and if numerous global mainstream newspapers have reported the story. Obviously, if it were subsequently proven to be untrue, and retractions issued, then we would either report that, or deem the controversies section unwarranted. Until then, I believe it should be reinstated and neutrality ensured in its content. It is perhaps unfortunate that SoWhy added page protection at the point of the new section having been removed - but that was probably appropriate until such time as editor consensus shows whether or not we should include this section on this developing story. And I think we should. Nick Moyes (talk) 02:01, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: The SWC article (and others like it published by mainstream media so far) were written based on an AP press release that came from a questionable Japanese media source. SWC has said they will be looking into the original info provided to them and issue an updated statement soon since several of the accusations made in their article have been disproved thus calling its reliability into question. Some of the same international media (non-japanese ones) have published subsequent articles talking about the other side of the issue, namely the T-shirt/BTS being used as a scapegoat/smokescreen to deflect from the recent deterioration in jpn/kor relations due to the latest court ruling re: the forced labour issue. Would it not perhaps be better to wait for clarified information that contains less bias than what is currently in circulation and influencing certain editors? Then a more rounded and thoroughly neutral presentation of the issue could be determined. What I believe Statethefacts86 was trying to say is that just because a story is widely reported on from one angle does not mean it is the whole truth or only truth. Wikipedia is not a fresh-off-the-press type forum, publishing a hot topic as soon as it starts making some waves, nor is it the grounds on which to push a specific political agenda by publishing a narrative that an insistent few deem relevant. However it is only reasonable to think that a matter as sensitive as this should be put on hold until more facts come to light and then resolved via consensus. - Carlobunnie (talk) 04:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: There's photographic documentation of him wearing the shirt. What more do you want? BTS hasn't denied it, the band's management haven't denied it. If the whole thing was faked, and they were about to miss out on a huge opportunity (one of Japan's most popular music programs), you'd think they would tell people it was fake. But don't pretend like that's the only controversy. What about the Nazi hats? The awful photo shoot at the Holocaust Memorial? This really should be documented here. For the record though, what was the "questionable Japanese media source"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.225.5 (talk • contribs)

I would like to ping Requiem II as they add as they initially rejected adding it. Additionally, Statethefacts86's neutrality have been called into question but I'd also like to do the same for 36.11.225.5 as they seem intent on adding it, including having this already added to the Dispute resolution noticeboard even though this discussion is ongoing (nor would I consider this a "small content dispute" as the page suggests). They seem to also fall under WP:SPA. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 04:44, 13 November 28 (UTC)

Okay, now for my own thoughts. This seems to be covered by notable news agencies, however my biggest concern stems from the controversy being ongoing. There have been many editors (though not all, to be clear) attempting to add/remove/adjust it to fit whatever narrative they support instead of keeping it neutral. I'm also personally debating about whether or not this would be WP:RECENTISM or not. Thus, if consensus should be reached to add/keep it, I feel like it should be started on a draft page where numerous editors can keep it encyclopedic, citing the accusations by Japanese outlets and now this Jewish one, the reaction, backlash, and accusations of it being propagated by Japanese nationalists (which, to be clear, has been covered by notable sources), instead of just edit warring about what to put there. Additionally, this issue concerns Japan, Korea, and now various Western nations, and getting a worldwide view all of these POVs would have to be ensured as well, instead of the little bit that's been removed which concerns just one view. Regarding recentism, as this is an ongoing controversy I feel it may be a good idea to wait and see the impact of the controversy has on BTS and K-Pop before adding it to the page, to, again, keep it encyclopedic.

Where to put it is my other concern. I don't feel it should get its own section unless it contains information comparable to the controversy section on Chou Tzu-yu. I feel it may be better suited to be mentioned in the "History" section under "2017–present" as it directly relates to BTS' career, similar to the Chat-Shire controversy as it's mentioned on the IU (singer) page. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 05:15, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I essentially agree with DanielleTH, this whole controversy is so big, with several news sources at least indirectly contradicting each other - as seen by the articles linked above - that in my opinion it's necessary to reflect that in this article. This was not the case earlier, which is why I deleted the section. However, I am not opposed to addressing this controversy at all. I had the same concerns as other users did about WP:RECENTISM, and if what Carlobunnie said about the SWC preparing a follow up statement is true, that, along with sites like CNN - as stated by Bonnielou2013 - proved my concerns to be correct. As of now, the article cannot be edited until the 19th anyways, and I'm hopeful that all the uncertainties, which led to the article being protected, will be resolved by then in order for someone to add the controversy (whether as a seperate section or not) in its entirety. AdultBrat (talk) 14:37, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Please realize that the controversies behind BTS have not been addressed by the company BigHit Entertainment, and until this info is confirmed or denied it should not be included in this article. There is unnecessary defamation and null until proven or denied as accurate. Please disregard any updated information as of 11/10/18. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.28.112.107 (talk) 19:45, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

This Statethefacts86 (talk) 22:41, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

The controversy is attested by multiple reliable independent sources, as listed above. The fact that a non-independent source has said nothing about it is certainly not a reason to omit mention of it. The section should be restored. Maproom (talk) 23:06, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

How about there is reliable independent public figures in japan who have said that they’re being used for a political agenda how about the fact I myself have photo proof of each pro right Japanese activist with their own natzi symbols marching and complaining about said alleged Nazi symbols on others. How about I have photo proof of the fact that the the photo shoot was a magazines choice but apologies were issued and not used as they didn’t agree with it either....

How about the fact that There is multiple proofs of said Japanese companies that have been ordered to pay restitution to the Korean victims are he sponsors of the shows they’ve been cancelled from how about we don’t put in articles that are being printed off of rumour and false facts pushed by a party that hates Koreans huh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Statethefacts86 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

How about the fact that far right Japanese politics group have been using any means necessary to take down Korean entertainers with bts being their sole target at present because they deny the wrongdoing against koreans.

How about the fact that a court case just ruled that some companies will have to pay restitution to the victims of the war and these companies are In fact the sponsors of the music shows that bts and another Korean group were cancelled from or that the Korean Japanese summat was cancelled bts are being used as pawns and scapegoats for this political agenda nd it’s disgusting Statethefacts86 (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

@Statethefacts86: Just because you like this band, and you don't like Japanese people, that doesn't mean they haven't done what they've done. BTS has faced controversy because of a lot of things recently. Wearing a shirt celebrating the atomic bombings of Japan (not rumour, fact supported by photographic proof). Wearing hats with Nazi SS insignia (not rumour, fact supported by photographic proof). Posing for promotional photos at the Holocaust Memorial in Germany (again, not rumour, fact supported by photographic proof). Just because Japanese nationalists wear Nazi insignia, that doesn't mean BTS can be forgiven. These things happened, and people were upset by them. It's important to document. We can't just change history because you have a crush on these guys. Your bio makes it clear that the only reason you're here is to stop this story being told: "I’m here for the sole purpose of making sure that the far right party and the political powers that be try not to destroy seven lives to fuel their own hate". It also makes it clear that you're trying to start a lie that none of these things happened, and are all just a far right conspiracy. Do you work for Big Hit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.225.5 (talk) 23:27, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't know why we've now got two threads on the same topic. But I shall therefore repeat my remarks made above by stating that I support the inclusion of the controversies section on the basis of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre's announcement, and its subsequent coverage by mainstream media in the UK and Japan. It goes without saying that neutrality in any coverage within Wikipedia must not only be fair and neutral, but it must also be complete. Nick Moyes (talk) 02:10, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

If your going to add it that’s fine but with the whole facts the shirt in context was about the liberation of Korea and other Koreans have worn it and Rupert grint was recently in japan with. A massive a bomb on his top the fact they’re using them for this political issue is clear......this photo shoot happened with a magazine and was with the stylist nd apologies were issued at the time...there was no swastika on the hat nd they had permission to do the shoot but it was ok taken down when people spoke up bout it. The fact is there is a far right party in japan who hate Korea who have been spamming the hell out of everywhere to try and dredge up everything to get koreans fans in japan have been accosted by people demanding they throw away there stuff which is frightening I am neutral when you want to add it with all the facts and context surrounding it not just this one side which hasn’t even stated the full facts anyone that ha reported from this ngle hasn’t researched properly also the rabbi and his organisation that ha been mentioned myself and others have been on contact and they are reviewing facts we have presented — Preceding unsigned comment added by Statethefacts86 (talk • contribs) 07:04, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@sinebot I’ve never once stated I don’t like Japanese people so get your facts right...there shirt wasn’t made to celebrate the bombing FACT it like the rest of the text on the shirt was and is about Korean liberation FACT the original photo doesn’t have a swastika on it FACT the photo was edited by an anti fan FACT Other Koreans have warn this FACT Rupert grint was just there wearing a massive bomb T-shirt and nothing was said FACT the stylist and magazine who organised said photoshoot aswell as the boys apologised FACT the companies that have been ordered to pay Korean victims are also sponsoring the music show to which not just bts but other artists have been cancelled for FACT the far right party that keeps pushing this uses natzi flags themselves FACT this is issue was addressed cleared up and resolved years ago FACT for one i don’t have crushes on them I’m not 12 so please stop trying to insinuate as such I don’t hate Japanese people at all I’ve only menetioned the far right group of its to be added fine but it should be added with all the context too it with all the other proofs and with the full truth not the biased opinion they’ve done something and there’s also mitigating factors around this — Preceding unsigned comment added by Statethefacts86 (talk • contribs) 07:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

As sad as this is to say, I think the above is clear proof of Statethefacts86 not having the required level of competence to edit articles. The fact that they are having a conversation with SineBot (and messaging SineBot's talk page) about this is rather revealing. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 08:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree to wait (3rd editor to do so to my count) to add anything about the controversy now; as Carlobunnie and DanielleTH have said. The events are recent, reliable news sources are available (CNN just picked it up, as well as those previously listed [2], and the story is adding bits and pieces of POV not first covered. A wise administrator gave us until November 19 to iron out any dispute on content. I vote we use all of that time to wait and see what develops. I have scratched the second heading for the same topic to add continuity to the discussion.--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 08:54, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Just putting it out there that BTS' agency addressed the controversies recently, and I know the rabbi/church has said they're looking further into the instance too. The problem everyone seemed to have about adding it was that there was only one side addressing it, and since Big Hit had addressed it I think we can now come to more of a conclusion. If anyone wants to see the original source for what Big Hit said they posted it on their twitter from what I understand. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/11/14/national/talent-agency-k-pop-group-bts-apologizes-bomb-t-shirt/#.W-r-xhuWytU https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/bts/8484710/bts-jimin-addresses-fans-tokyo-dome-allegations-mocking-pastUkiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 16:46, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

If the band or the band's management never address the controversy, we will still write about it. So we are not waiting to see what the band says, nor are we waiting to see what the band management says. There's enough analysis printed in the news stories for us to summarize them for our readers. Of course, when the band weighs in on the controversy, we will summarize that as well. Binksternet (talk) 18:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Please add the awards which is received by bts in 2018 in mama japan and hong kong 1-world wide icon of the year 2-best tiktok video Etc......... Uvi NAGAR (talk) 17:19, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

List of awards and nominations received by BTS. We won't add every single award in the main article.--Lirim | Talk 17:48, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I was uncertain so I wanted to bring it up here before doing. BTS have done three webtoons and a book and I was wondering if a separate section should be created for that or if we should just leave it how we have it now? Or perhaps add a section covering the BTS universe created through music videos, official twitter accounts, and other such mediums.Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 05:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

• It might make sense to have a BTS in other media section at this point. All the webtoons and the book could go there, as well as their BT21 stuff and the tie in twitters/sites for the BU. I'd be curious as to what other people think. Baepsayed (talk) 15:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

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and often called "the biggest boy group in South Korea" or "The King Of K-Pop" 139.255.78.2 (talk) 14:45, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

The article already mentions that they have been labelled as the biggest boyband in the world. Alexanderlee (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Looking at the 2018 section, am I the only one who feels like parts of it could be moved to the impact section? Looking at FAs like Lady Gaga, it looks like only the most vital information about a record is put in the career timeline while notable extraneous information is put into an impact-esque section. Also, the lead is massive and really should be cut down.

I feel like this article could use somewhat of a collaborative overhaul, would any other editors be interested in starting up a draft for it? DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 04:35, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• I think a lot of people have contributed to it but not a lot of people have removed or taken info out of it. It's why I started working on the initial paragraph and pulling out cites and such. I still think it needs work but I don't want to pull too much out of it without other people's input. If we do decide to overhaul it I think a lot more people would need to be involved.Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 16:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree that the lead was sorely in need of trimming, and I like what's been done so far. I think that a lot could still be taken out, leaving the blow-by-blow recounting of the band's 2016–2018 career and chart statistics to the body of the article. It might also be good to include a bit more on genre/artistry/critical reception. One specific concern I have (completely ignorant of the group as I am) is the listing of albums at the beginning: why is "The Most Beautiful Moment in Life, Part 2 (2015)" listed, but not part 1? Why is Wings (2016) called the second album? Cheers, gnu57 16:49, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Genericusername57 Yes I think that paragraph could be reduced too. I think Part 1 was not added because there were no notable records broken. Wings is their second Korean album which I noted after you pointed it out. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Part one isn't mentioned in the lead since the most notable thing about it was its singles being more recognized than previous releases from BTS, but I'm not sure if part two should be mentioned in the lead at all. I think what's caused the 2017-2018 section to be so long was due to 2018 being their biggest international year in terms of records and sales. While I do feel these are notable, I think only the biggest records should be noted in the career summary section and other notable records should be moved into their impact section. For example, their tour's high numbers should probably belong in the impact section. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 23:32, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

@Ukiss2ne14lyfe:: Regarding this edit, can you explain your rationale for not having "popular Japanese music show" be redirected to Music Station? This is clearly the music show that cancelled their appearance back in late 2018 as stated on this article. Having it simply stand as "popular Japanese music show" is not specific and falls under WP:FLOWERY. lullabying (talk) 21:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• It was decided to be generic as it really doesn't matter which show only that it happened. If you would like to see the discussion it's either above or archived.Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 05:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

• I'm not sure why it "doesn't matter" when something as vague as this is not specific and borders on WP:FLOWERY. lullabying (talk) 17:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

• Please look at the discussion held to see consensus. Like I said, if you want to change it that would need to be brought up there. It also states puffery is positive or negatively loaded language and that paragraph is neutral in perspective solely stating the facts. Stating which music show did it changes nothing. It still holds the exact same meaning. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 18:33, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

In 2019. bts was nominated for a Grammy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:1343:6294:F4C4:C4B5:D2D7:E5A2 (talk) 22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Shouldn't the members be listed in alphabetical order rather than in order of age? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.71.179 (talk) 18:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

@74.12.71.179: There's no rule one way or the other, though if we use GAs such as Girls' Generation as an example the members appear to be listed by age. Age order is also how K-Pop groups are most commonly listed, and Wikipedia prefers to follow what's generally used over (usually) pointless organization such as alphabetization. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 04:16, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: I think this IP users question is related to Talk:Itzy#Members order where there is a discussion about this specific problem including the ip user above. In short, template documentation states one thing, common practice is another. I have already posted my view on this point there however your comment also brings up a valid point which makes me reconsider my opinion from before. Maybe you could add your thoughts there too? Thanks, Redalert2fan (talk) 14:47, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

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BTS stands for Bangtan Soneyon not behind the scene. In english it can be translated to Bulletproof Boy Scouts. This is very important to the band. The name means something very dear to BTS so please change it so that people will know as well. Thank You! Patchy Patch (talk) 04:10, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

@Patchy Patch: the name also stands for Beyond the Scene, As of 2017. Their name is written about in the ‘name’ section of the article. Alexanderlee (talk) 07:08, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello. The 《24/7=Serendipity》 exhibition is officially held from Mar.23,2019 to Apr.23, 2019 in Guangzhou, China. Is it possible to add it to the "Exhibitions" part? Bighit announced this news on its official Weibo account.

Year: 2019 Title: 《24/7=Serendipity》 Country: China Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). https://weibo.com/3458899104/HkpMHtnnP?type=comment#_rnd1554090885624

Thank you. Taextae (talk) 06:28, 1 April 2019 (UTC)taextae

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JeonNatalie (talk) 18:22, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

You said that BTS stands for behing the scene which it doesnt. It stands for Bangtan Sonyeandon which also stands for bulletproof boy scouts

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 21:45, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

What thoughts do you all have on including a section on BTS members' other projects and collaborations similar to featured article U2? Though each BTS member has their own separate page, I feel it would be a good idea to include short sentences on their other projects, especially since they also release their own work for Festa, their annual BTS anniversary celebration. If not included in some capacity, I feel that BTS' page would not completely capture what BTS does in its entirety. Starlight dreams (talk) 13:21, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Festa and anniversary stuff is mentioned on List of BTS concert tours. To me, I think it is repetitive. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 13:21, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I fail to see any mention of Festa or other anniversary stuff on that page. Could you point me to where that is located on List of BTS concert tours? If you are referring to the Musters and fanmeetings, that is completely different from Festa. Starlight dreams (talk) 14:36, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

We should add a section about the logo development. From it's old logo to it's new logo. And how that coincides with their name development too. What do you think? Comet Zombie (talk) 17:00, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I plan on helping out with the flow and/or grammar of the article. I think the article can potentially read a little more easily.Comet Zombie (talk) 17:01, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

What do you think?Comet Zombie (talk) 17:02, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

The BTS rapline has no hierarchy. There is no main rapper or lead rapper. Yet one member is given the title 'main rapper' So can this please be rectified? It is will be quite confusing to a new fan or someone curios about them and it is false information. Thank you. Whalien (talk) 21:28, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't look like anyone has any positions listed other than leader, vocalist, or rapper. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 01:00, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

This article is ridiculously hagiographic and reads like it was written by the band's own PR firm. We need to change the text to have a more balanced perspective on the band and focus less on unverifiable compliments and trivial superlatives. Ashmoo (talk) 14:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Ashmoo please state exactly what words or phrases or sections in the article appear to you to be "unverifiable compliments and trivial superlatives" or that are so biased to warrant dismissing via that fan tag the work all the editors who maintain the page have done to present it as neutrally and as accurately as possible. If you have particular issues with the use of "first group to" (because that is the only thing I could see possibly being what you mean) then let us know what should be written instead since the majority of their achievements throughout their career have only been achieved by them and as such is how they are referred to when written about across nearly all forms of media. I browsed the contents of a few other popular musicians pages (Good/featured articles) and noticed they were written about similarly (use of first, youngest, only etc.), so unless we have all been maintaining this page wrong this entire time I'm at a loss as to what else can be done to make the page more to your liking. I've already seen some editors replace a few phrases and words here and there but detailed points from you would be much appreciated in place of superfluous language that comes across as condescending rather than an attempt to be helpful.--Carlobunnie (talk) 16:39, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Carlobunnie, please don't take my comments personally. I trust we are all here to improve the article, so please Assume Good Faith. (I'm not saying that you are not, but just re-iterating the policy). My comments here and the article tag are not intended as a judgement on the editors who have obviously worked hard on this article. But rather, merely a introductory appraisal from someone who stumbled upon the page and is seeking to make it useful for people who are not necessarily fans of the band. I will give specific examples soon, when I have some time. Regards, Ashmoo (talk) 07:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm going through the article removing what I feel is superfluous but Ashmoo tagging without explaining what you feel is the problem doesn't do much. Feel free to explain what worried you. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 17:51, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I see there are three exhibitions listed in the "Exhibitions" section, but aren't them the same one? The first reference (the one for 2018 BTS Exhibition) advertises a book that looks like the Japanese edition of this one, whose description is "Worldwide sensation BTS launched their first exhibition 24/7=Serendipity in Seoul this year" (which is listed as the third exhibition). Posters and graphics seem the same. After reading articles by Billboard and Osen, I think there's only one exhibition, 2018 BTS Exhibition: 24/7=Serendipity (오,늘) ("Today" or "Five, Always", depending on whether you consider the comma), held in Seoul, then in Guangzhou and this June in New York. --Chiya⁹² 13:16, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

@Chiyako92: Looking into it, I think you're correct. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 00:15, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Is is really useful to mention every TV live performance in the "Map of the Soul: Persona and stadium world tour". I understand that every TV performance is somewhat notable, but mentioning 10 performances in one section is to much.--Lirim | Talk 16:51, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, I’d perhaps suggest keeping a few, such as SNL as it was the shows highest anticipated episode and BGT which I believe is their first U.K. television performance, but altering the wording a little to say something along the lines of “BTS went on to perform on a number of television shows, such as SNL and BGT.” That way, it mentions some of the main ones, but doesn’t crowd the section with a list of performances. Alexanderlee (talk) 17:37, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Seems good. A full list is already here[4]--Lirim | Talk 06:43, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I just remembered that BTS performed on the Graham Norton show last year so BGT isn’t their first U.K. performance (how did I forget that?!) but still agree listing all of them is not necessary so long as the notable ones are mentioned. Alexanderlee (talk) 11:06, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Please write about how BTS shows just a tad bit more love to their Japanese ARMYs over their Korean and International ARMYS ie fan content and concerts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.59.36 (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

What reliable sources support that claim? —C.Fred (talk) 19:32, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

It seems like that person is trying to bring fandom drama from twitter over to wikipedia, there would be no sources that support this. 172.221.235.232 (talk) 01:29, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

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Some information from members section missing as in positions in the band. Kpop Lover 2001 (talk) 15:45, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. NiciVampireHeart 22:17, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

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BTS is currently the world's biggest boy band 157.42.248.153 (talk) 16:58, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 17:10, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

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Remove bold formatting of the following text: "s 50 most influential in 2018,[270] and Forbes Korea named them the fifth most influential celebrities of Korea in 2017, and the most influential celebrities of Korea in 2018.[271][272] In 2019, BTS ranked 43rd on Forbes" A break from reality (talk) 09:37, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

The sentence "Having sold over fifteen million albums, BTS are the best-selling artist in South Korea of all time" may need sourcing. It looks like the total sales count comes from adding up the single albums sales (original research?) instead of being stated by a tertiary source. It could be replaced with "Having sold over ten million albums as of December 2018" with this as source. On the other hand, I couldn't find any article stating that BTS is the best-selling artist in South Korea of all time (Koreaboo aside), just that they have the best-selling album in South Korea of all time, which is quite different. Any thoughts? --Chiya^ko92 14:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

@Chiyako92: This article released today shows BTS is the best-selling artist on the Gaon Chart with 15,395,655 albums sold but I can't read Korean so I'm not sure if it supports the claim of best-selling artist in Korea of all time since the Gaon Chart launched in 2010.Starlight dreams (talk) 01:32, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@Starlight dreams: It looks like Gaon read my mind. The article is exactly what we needed for the total sales amount, however it takes into consideration only artists who debuted after 2010, therefore I'll add a CN to the "best-selling artist of all time" claim. --Chiya^ko92 09:02, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

...it takes into consideration only artists who debuted after 2010... This statement is a little off. Gaon's numbers only reflect album sales since 2010. Artists that debuted or albums released before 2010 are not exempt. The article doesn't specifically mention the best-selling artist of all time, but it shows that BTS is the best-selling artist since the establishment of Gaon. ƏXPLICIT 00:21, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

@Explicit: I'm sorry if I misinterpreted, i just pasted "2010년 부터 집계하였기에, 2010년 이전 데뷔 가수는 관찰에서 제외" to Google translator. --Chiya^ko92 08:03, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Maybe rewriting the claim as "BTS is the best-selling artist in South Korea since Gaon Music Chart began tracking sales in 2010"? ƏXPLICIT 06:56, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

It would certainly be better that way, but Before changing it, I'll ask WikiProject Korea for a feedback on the Korean sentence. I just find peculiar that top-selling artists like Girls' Generation or Super Junior haven't sold 1 million physical albums in the last 9 years. --Chiya^ko92 07:56, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. In my first response, I thought your comment was about Gaon in general, and not this particular report. In that case, perhaps this phrasing might work: "According to Gaon Music Chart, BTS has sold fifteen million albums and is the best-selling artist to debut in the 2010s." ƏXPLICIT 14:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh, sorry if I couldn't explain myself well! XD Now it's perfect! --Chiya^ko92 14:47, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

I want to submit a few suggestions for BTS Wiki page:

1. Kindly add this recent event: The Empire State Building was turned purple for five minutes every hour from sunset to mark the occasion for BTS and ARMYs. ^[1]

2. Mention that BTS is also the "first non-English Act" to enter the Top 10 of the IFPI’s Global Recording Artists of the Year Chart in 2018 (it is written in the Naver article). ^[2]

3. If it is possible, kindly add the World Economic Forum's article about BTS and globalization in the "Impact section". ^[3]

Facts Spiller (talk) 09:24, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Please don't. The article is already filled with way too much trivia. We do not need to record every thing piece of marketing they do. Ashmoo (talk) 13:37, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

I personally think that the page has too much unnecessary information, reporting on every single thing they do. Nothing inherently bad but adding more is just unnecessary, the Wikipedia page isn't a fan page, one or two example is sufficient, there doesn't need to be 10 different examples all showcasing the same point

SuperZecton (talk) 11:33, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

I personally think that the page has too much unnecessary information, reporting on every single thing they do. Nothing inherently bad but adding more is just unnecessary, the Wikipedia page isn't a fan page, one or two example is sufficient, there doesn't need to be 10 different examples all showcasing the same point

SuperZecton (talk) 11:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

The part listing the artists BTS use for inspiration seems a bit odd to me. Why list Charlie Puth and Post Malone, who are artists contemporary to BTS, when they aren't really as relevant as, say, Eminem or Seo Taiji's influence on them? It also seems like there's a disproportionate amount of Western artists vs Korean artists, which doesn't help convey the impact their own cultural roots have on their music. The inspirations listed also seem very rapline centric. I have a few sources about singers that the vocal line have noted as inspirations, especially Jungkook, who's been incredibly vocal about singers like IU or G-Dragon being some of the main reasons he even chose to pursue singing as a career. Just a suggestion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agustdream (talk • contribs) 23:54, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Inspirations for individual members are listed in their respective articles. The only group I can remember the whole group cited as an influnce, would be Big Bang.--Lirim | Talk 23:57, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

It seems a bit odd to me as well, I'll do some research. Also, in the Impact and influence section, I noticed that some artists cites only one member of BTS as their role model, therefore I think they should be removed. The ones in question are: The Boyz' Younghoon and Hwall (V), SF9's Zuho (Suga), Golden Child's Jaehyun (V), Park Ji-hoon (V), and Hyeongseop X Euiwoong (Jungkook). --Chiya^ko92 14:47, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

I found Big Bang and Shinhwa. --Chiya^ko92 15:16, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

That source for Shinhwa to me seems to be more Jungkook's personal influence than an influence for BTS as a whole. As for BigBang, BTS have mentioned them in one or two interviews back when they were really young yes, I mean that article you referenced is from 2013. And while you might find a few other mentions after that, they've never really regularly mentioned them as being like a defining influence on them, but mostly spoke of them as most hoobae groups would of sunbae artists like BB at the time. The members have more often mentioned western hip-hop artists as their influences so to me what's listed right now is more accurate. I mean, honestly, when is the last time anyone (aside from Jungkook back in 2016 when he went on that singing show and did GD's song) in BTS mentioned BB as an artist that influences them? I think it would be outdated to use these particular older groups as defining influences on them when it's very clear to see from the majority of their interviews that their answers would be very different to that. They mention epik high, seo tai ji, eminem, drake, charlie puth etc far more regularly. Though if you want to split hairs, in the interviews when asked about influences, individual members usually throw out names of artists they personally like and the others agree or offer up their own likes. So make of that what you will. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 16:35, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

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It's bang tang boys not, bang tan boys

2604:6000:CA45:F00:3C56:7252:1B68:6F04 (talk) 04:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: this isn’t correct. 방탄 is bangtan. Bangtang would be 방탕. Alex (talk) 04:52, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

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You guys need to write that Kim Seokjin(he's worldwide handsome) is going to enlist in the military Stanchangbin (talk) 10:01, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —C.Fred (talk) 14:11, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

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Hi they weren't formed in 2013 - Kim Namjoon (Rm) Yoongi (Suga) joined at the same time closely followed by the others. They spend time as trainees before debuting in 2013. Please can this be edited to the correct information BangSpring20 (talk) 13:53, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. Also, reliable sources should be provided for any claims made. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:07, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi in the introduction at the top of the page it shows that "bts were formed in 2013" this is incorrect, they were formed in 2010 - so am requesting this is changed to formed in 2010. They actually debuted in 2013, they have stated this in multiple interviews and vlives which i can provide when i get home if needed. Here is also two articles which give such information.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/10/bts-renews-contract-with-bighit-for-7-more-years.html

https://stylecaster.com/how-bts-members-discovered/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by BangSpring20 (talk • contribs) 15:46, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi in the introduction at the top of the page it shows that "bts were formed in 2013" this is incorrect, they were formed in 2010 - so am requesting this is changed to formed in 2010. They actually debuted in 2013, they have stated this in multiple interviews and vlives which i can provide when i get home if needed. Here is also two articles which give such information.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/10/bts-renews-contract-with-bighit-for-7-more-years.html

https://stylecaster.com/how-bts-members-discovered/

BangSpring20 (talk) 19:11, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 02:45, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eggishorn: Hi. The formation year mentioned in the Entertainment Tonight article here is 2010 and 2011, ultimately finalized in 2012. Pinging frequent other Kpop editors Chiyako92, Alexanderlee, Snowflake91, Carlobunnie, Lirim.Z, Hahahey568, Kleool to particpate and reach a consensus. Thanks.Ashleyyoursmile (talk) 05:40, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Why not just change the lead statement to say “began its formation in 2010” which is more correct? 2013 would only make sense if it says that’s when they debuted, not when they were formed. The group as we know it was only formed as early as 2012, as that’s when Jimin passed his audition. Alex (talk) 13:16, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Hey guys,

I asked for an edit to be made as there was some incorrect information on it but it still hasn’t been changed wonder if someone could look into it for me.

Bts weren’t formed in 2013 they were formed in 2010 they debuted in 2013.

Thanks BangSpring20 (talk) 15:57, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi @BangSpring20: I've opened the request again. You might notice that the 'answered=' parameter was changed to 'yes' when someone responded to it. You responded again, but because the 'answered' parameter was still 'yes' it immediately looks like it has been responded to and possibly worked out. I've changed this to 'no', so perhaps someone who can help will be along soon. I do notice that the article history states they started their formation in 2010, with their final line-up set in 2012, though I don't know how this would affect things. Alex (talk) 16:20, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks sorry I’m still learning about Wikipedia lol...hopefully someone can look into it soon BangSpring20 (talk) 16:34, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

No need to apologise, we're all beginners and learning at some point!:) Alex (talk) 16:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Even I have seen in an article telling BTS has formed in 2010 and debuted in 2013. https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/how-did-bts-get-discovered.html/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angeljp954 (talk • contribs) 15:50, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

i haven't seen this said on the page but bts beat the beatles in sales. here is my evidence: https://mnews.joins.com/article/23447584 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hotpocketrolls (talk • contribs) 17:24, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

This is not true at all! This is all fake info and every band is unique in their own ways! Rebecca is the best (talk) 17:00, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

@Hotpocketrolls: that articles states that BTS beat the Beatles' record for getting three number one albums on the Billboard 200 chart. It does not state that they have outsold the Beatles, in fact it doesn't mention the Beatles sales at all. @Rebecca is the best:, how does each band being unique have anything to do with this? Alex (talk) 17:04, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Do you think some information should be added about each individual member of BTS?LNeiswonger224 (talk) 03:45, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

No, this article is about the group. Information about each member is on their own article. Alex (talk) 04:09, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

I already make a talk but I don't see it sorry, I wanted to correc myself, the boys don't consider themselves as belonging to kpop and kpop isn't an genre so you should delete the kpop in the genre. Furthermore as regards to the grammy interview, korean newspapers are naming " Genre Bts" the new genre the boys talked about so we coud put it " " in the genre until further precision. 💜 Sophiebbbbbbbbbb (talk) 01:52, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

See my response on Talk:BTS_(band)#About_the_style_of_music_of_BTS, cheers. Abdotorg (talk) 17:07, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

I saw it and hope you saw mine too Sophiebbbbbbbbbb (talk) 23:24, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: @Ashleyyoursmile: @Snowflake91: Pinging you all as some of the more frequent editors of the page. The current 2020 section has a lot of extraneous information that does not necessarily need to be on this page and can be relegated to the album-specific pages (e.g., details about the comeback trailers, extensive details on the album preorders, certifications for older singles/albums). I have made an attempt to rewrite that section to what I feel is most relevant and would like your thoughts before making the change.

In January 2020, BTS released "Black Swan" along with a choreography art film performed by Slovenian-based MN Dance Company as the first single from their fourth Korean-language studio album, Map of the Soul: 7.^[1][2] The song debuted at number 57 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number 46 on the UK Official Singles Chart.^[3][4] Following the single's release, BTS performed alongside Lil Nas X, Billy Ray Cyrus, Diplo, and more in a special segment at the 62nd Annual Grammy Awards, making BTS the first Korean act to perform at the Grammy's.^[5][6][7]

Map of the Soul: 7 was released in conjunction with its lead single "On" on February 21 to universal acclaim.^[8] According to album distributor Dreamus, the stock pre-orders of the album reached a record-breaking 4.02 million, surpassing their previous record of 2.68 million with Map of the Soul: Persona.^[9] In support of Map of the Soul series, BTS will embark on their fourth worldwide concert tour and second stadium tour, Map of the Soul Tour starting April 11 in Seoul, South Korea.^[10]

Agree, and support your changes. Teasers/trailers etc. Serve far better purpose being on the album article rather than piling it all into this article as well. Noting that the album contains twenty songs, for example, certainly isn’t necessary in this article. Alex (talk) 19:52, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

I support it as well. Also, if we need an additional source about the universal acclaim, Osen wrote an article about the positive reviews by Western medias. --Chiya^ko92 10:21, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Alexanderlee and Chiyako92: Thanks for the feedback! I have added the source from Osen and made the change to the article per our discussion Starlight dreams (talk) 23:02, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Heyy i also made a talk on this ! Btspop 👌 Sophiebbbbbbbbbb (talk) 16:47, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

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Style of music : BTSpop, in a recent interview of BTS, the members of the group said that BTS music is not « Kpop » but « BTSpop », they don’t want to be in a precise style. For them, the music and their music is universal.90.34.203.83 (talk) 16:00, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: BTS is classified as K-pop, as it is in fact, Korean pop. I have never seen the members themselves call themselves anything like "BTSpop" and you definitely will not find a reliable source stating that there is such a genre. Abdotorg (talk) 17:06, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Further, genres are meant to be broad categories. Do you have examples of other groups that perform "BTSpop", as you describe it? —C.Fred (talk) 15:22, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Well read the interview Michiru11 (talk) 19:38, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Good morning or evening I saw that there are ongoing discussions on BTS genre so I just want to add that it comes from this interview [www.grammy.com/grammys/news/bts-talk-new-album-map-soul-7-genre-bts] It would be great actually if those who run the page would take a look at it. This interview has been shared by the BTS Agency itself so we should take it in consideration by adding "BTS genre" for example. Michiru11 (talk) 11:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the source, but we are not adding a genre that simply does not exist. Like I said directly above this "BTS is classified as K-pop, as it is in fact, Korean pop". Abdotorg (talk) 15:17, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

What an absurd thing this is. BTS are a musical group, not a genre of music. Alex (talk) 16:34, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

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Rm is the main rapper of BTS Bananapooiiiip (talk) 23:19, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: see this previous discussion -- Starlight dreams (talk) 05:16, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

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I want to add a bit more about BTS that other people and ARMY don't know so please let me edit a little bit Kpopbabie (talk) 20:55, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done Not clear what changes you wish to be made, what is it you would like to add to the article? Please remember to provide reliable sources. Alex (talk) 21:06, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

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I would like to add the names of the members girlfriends BTSWaifu (talk) 00:42, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

No, this is trivia and not necessary. Evaders99 (talk) 00:50, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

The following categories have been nominated for possible renaming:

• Category:BTS (band)
• Category:BTS (band) albums‎
• Category:BTS (band) EPs
• Category:BTS (band) concert tours‎
• Category:BTS (band) members‎
• Category:BTS (band) songs‎

A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ƏXPLICIT 02:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

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BTS is not a boyband its a boy group from SKor 2001:4450:440F:8100:B0CF:BA46:D22:4E28 (talk) 11:51, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The group clearly fits the definition of a boy band. —C.Fred (talk) 12:46, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Manor5, if you're very insistent on having a "fandom" section, let's discuss. My concern with this section is less that it's not wholly positive but rather that it's irrelevant to the band itself. This article is more than willing to mention the negative if it has to do with the band... there is an entire paragraph about a scandal in the History section. There is no reason to have lines discussing the death of Sulli on a page about BTS, an artist whom they have never worked with or even mentioned. This is a biographical page about the artist. The "impact" section is about the direct impact the band has had on culture and society, not people who like them. There is also zero prescient for having a section about fandoms in artist pages even if said fandom is large... see One Direction, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, The Beatles. If you feel their fandom is notable enough for coverage on Wikipedia why not make a page in the vein of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic fandom or put it in sections about K-Pop fandom like K-pop#Appeal and fan base. (Tagging Alexanderlee, Baepsayed, Hahahey568 per their involvement as well.) DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 21:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

As a fan of BTS, I believe it is only fair to list all relevant information. Please view all my past edits and understand that none of my edits are based on bias. However, it is clear from users Hahahey568 (talk), Baepsayed(talk) and Alex (talk) that BTS and South Korean artists and/or people are important to you, but lets be frank. The articles in my edit on BTS fandom are all from good sources, TRUE and relevant. READ THE ARTICLES AND UNDERSTAND!. Furthermore, if you feel that it should not be under a specific section, maybe we should move it to a more relevant section. Open to suggestions. — Manor5 (talk) , 10 April 2020 23:39, 10 April 2020 (SAST)

@Manor5: I also opened a discussion about this and merged the two, I hope that's alright. I explained my concerns with the section above, feel free to comment. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 22:08, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Manor5 I think it's safe to presume we're all fans to some extent otherwise we wouldn't be editing the article. That has nothing to do with my edit, though.

As for the information, I don't see how it is relevant to the article. The article is about the group, not its fans and what they do. Especially considering that BTS don't control what they do. Just because something is true and you can find reliable sources doesn't automatically mean it should be in articles. Alex (talk) 05:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I checked the sources used in the paragraph, but some of the articles don't mention BTS or their fans. A breakdown:

• While the influence of the bands fandom, known as "The BTS ARMY", on the' bands success has been overwhelming positive, the fan-base has also generated intense criticism for cyber-bullying and malicious online behavior". Sources:
  • BBC, an article about toxic fandoms, no mention to BTS or their fans
  • Vox, an article about fandom history, quote: "Massive fandoms for groups like One Direction and K-pop band BTS helped evolve the cultural perception of the shrill teenage fangirl toward a more positive image of fans as active, engaged participants in the narratives they consume."
  • Popdust, this is okay
  • LA Times, an article about SuperM first US concert
• Paragraph about Zachary Kussin is okay.
• "The fandom also received widespread scrutiny in October 2019 after the fandom called the death of South Korean singer and actress Sulli as a publicity stunt, with BTS fans revealing that her name only trended on twitter after her death, while BTS trend everyday." Source: BBC, an article about Sulli and cyberbullying in Korea, no mention to BTS or their fans. It's followed by more news about Sulli, which are off-topic.
• "A poll on Vulture in 2019, also revealed that BTS fans are the second 'worst' fans on the internet, with the post referring to it as "toxic"." Source: the poll. "Toxic" is used 5 times, none of which is related to BTS fans. Also, ARMYs weren't chosen as the second 'worst' fans on the internet: they won the first and second matchups, but lost the third out of five.

I would also like to mention that there are more articles online (and books) about their charities and positive impact than on their 'toxicity', therefore this paragraph as it is seems pretty unbalanced to me. --Chiya^ko92 08:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

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heaseyo concert 2021 다구아빠 (talk) 14:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done:. @다구아빠: We need more information about the concert and where it will take place, plus we need to see that the concert has been written about in a reliable source, preferably independent of the band. —C.Fred (talk) 14:31, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

I am suggesting we update the article photo to a more recent one. The one here is from 2018. Pilipinas7107 (talk) 06:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

We can only use pictures that are under Creative Commons. This picture is very high quality and clear, and it's not like in two years the members look drastically different, like they would if the picture was from 2014. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 02:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Is mentioning the exact numbers for Bang Bang Con worth it? It doesn't seem like it's particularly important and feels a little WP:FAN to me. I feel like mentioning that it was done in response to the COVID-19 cancellations and was overall successful is enough. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 15:32, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree. --Chiya^ko92 08:20, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

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BTS Net worth in 2020 $60 million as of May 2020. "As of 2019, BTS are purportedly worth more than $4.65 billion to South Korea's economy" mentioned in the 3rd paragraph is an outdated data and need to change according to the new data. Check this article for evidence: https://www.wealthypersons.com/bts-net-worth-2020-2021/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angeljp954 (talk • contribs) May 14, 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: That article does not appear to be a reliable source. Also, the $4.65 billion refers to the total economic value that BTS brings to the Korean economy (e.g., through exports, tourism, etc), not BTS' personal net worth. Starlight dreams (talk) 01:45, 12 June 2020 (UTC