Talk:Atlantis

Can we add a mention under location hypothesis of Kodiak Island as discussed in the following book:

https://archive.org/details/atlantis-and-its-fate-in-the-postdiluvian-world

Reasons:

1) Similarities between the Kircher Map of Atlantis and Kodiak Island during the Younger Dryas, and that Kodiak at that time fits many of Plato's dimensions.

2) Similarities between the "Aeletean" kings of Ancient Egypt, thought to have come from a faraway land, and the modern word "Aleutian". Other historians also imply there was a colony from India and the Far East south of Egypt in antiquity near "Punt" where the Ancient Egyptians believed their gods, the same ones aligned with the Aeletean kings, came from.

3) Sonar imaging of an underwater site southeast of Chirikof Island might imply a sunken human face monument and ruins that would put the pyramids at Giza to shame.

4) Genetic evidence of the X2 haplogroup in the Bayahira Oasis region of Egypt suggests a link to Native North Americans, suggesting Beringia as a possible origin point for Atlantis. The Berbers of North Africa also share a relative with the Sami circa 7,000 BCE, who would have been in Northern Siberia at the time. 47.32.37.155 (talk) 14:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A self-published book isn't a reliable source. Schazjmd (talk) 14:39, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree, the claim any book based on how it is published is not a reliable source is quite frankly ludicrous, and anyone making such a statement should not be moderating anything. The information in a book, and the arguments it makes, is what makes something a reliable source, not how it is published. Many self-publish to avoid censorship and editorial overreach. 47.32.37.155 (talk) 16:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No what makes it a reliable sources in meeting wp:rs, does it? Slatersteven (talk) 16:28, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"CHAPTER FIVE: ON UAP; € DETECTING TIME-DILATING PHENOMENA". ROFL. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And "CHAPTER SIX: ON TIME TRAVEL" shows a rather weak grasp of physics. Donald Albury 16:03, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a chapter on hypothetical ideas from physicists such as Amos Ori and Frank Tipler, and relates to block theory of time, aka, Julian Barbour and LQG via Rovelli and Smolin, and would only be considered a weak grasp if you assume the modern picture of physics is complete, which it most certainly is not, especially if you apply the concept of Platonic Solids to solid-state physics/crystallization theory and then to QG and remove linear time from the equation like the Wheeler-DeWitt equations did, as possible avenues as to how future generations might have insights into novel quantum geometries we currently do not. Nor is ridicule a part of the scientific method, and responses such as AndyTheGrump indicate to me such moderators should be banned for displaying a gross level of immaturity such as "ROFL" that contribute nothing positive to a discussion, and border on inhumanity and possibly even sociopathy. These statements also have no relation to the central argument which is that Kodiak Island should be added based on:

1) Genetic evidence of the X2 haplogroup showing a high percentage in a group in The Bahayara Desert Oasis region in Egypt equalled only by Native North Americans in terms of their X2 haplogroup ancestry.

2) Sonar imaging data which shows a geological formation resembling a giant human sized face, a trident and a circular debris field within the remains of what was once likely a caldera, which would have resembled the inner island exactly as Plato described and would have resulted in the entire area sinking several thousand feet below sea level and being inundated by ocean water after an eruption. This area is in the Aleutian Volcanic Arc, and has had some of the biggest earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions in recorded history, exactly where we might expect to find Atlantis.

3) Linguistic similarities between ancient historians descriptions of the ancient kings of Egypt, such as aelete, aeletean, auritean and aulitean and those of Alutiiq and Aleutian words. Not to mention similarities with Aelean's description of the headdresses of Atlantean kings who he wrote wore a headdress of a ram fish and a marine ewe, artistic depictions which model those of the Alutiiq seal hunting hats, and their use of using fish skin to make clothing, which also mirror the artistic descriptions of the Sumerians Apkallu.

4) Kodiak Island also matches several of Plato's dimensions, including being 230 miles in length during The Younger Dryas, and Chirikof Island would have been a small mountain 5-6 miles from the shoreline, also as Plato described.

Whether you personally agree with Kodiak Island being a candidate site is irrelevant, or as someone else stated, that how a book was published should have any bearing on the arguments it makes. What matters is the evidence clearly shows the seafloor near Kodiak is a site worth exploring and investigating in more detail, so additional sonar imaging, ROV footage and archaeological excavations can determine the truth, not someone's preconceptions. What should be added to the Wikipeia entry is that:

ALASKA/ANCIENT BERINGIA

One modern fringe theory has looked at Alaska in terms of Ancient Beringia as the source of the Ancient Egyptian stories that were reportedly told to Solon by a priest in Sais as stated by Plato. They are looking at a potential caldera site southeast of Chirikof Island where they believe sonar imaging shows the possible remains of a human face monument, trident and a circular debris field, as a possible location for Atlantis. They base their claim on a review of ancient historical sources other than Plato, and by tracing the genetic footprints of the X2 haplogroup. Their argument is that Plato wrote he was giving Greek names to replace the Ancient Egyptian originals, which has caused people to look in the wrong places, and direction, leading many to assume Atlantis was a myth. They also state that the Ancient Egyptians have a similar concept of Atlantis known as Aaru, or the Field of the Reeds, which they place in the east, where the sun rises, along with the Land of Punt. Ancient Egyptian stories such as Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor show what they believe is a potential connection between Punt and Plato's Atlantis. The idea of Atlantis originating to the east of Egypt they claim is based on other sources in antiquity, such as Pliny the Elder, who associated Atlantia with Aethiopia, and others such as Ephorus who wrote the Aethiopians originated from the Far East. Homer, who Schliemann used to locate Troy, placed Aethiopia to the east, and not to the south. They also utilize findings such as those by Frank C. Hibben, who discovered a mass grave site in the 1940s near Fairbanks, Alaska, showing what appeared to be the remains of thousands of animals killed in a massive prehistoric flooding event which he compared to the concentration camps of Nazi Germany, as well as the mass-extinction event that killed off many species in North America around the same time as Plato's date for the destruction of Atlantis. They describe other similarities such as the shape of Kodiak Island during the Younger Dryas matching the same shape as the island of Atlantis as depicted in the Kircher Map of Atlantis, showing inlets and mountain ranges at the same locations as they currently exist on Kodiak Island. Although the Kircher Map is considered fictional by mainstream academia, this theory points to Kircher's claim of having used Ancient Egyptian maps to create it. The NOAA was contacted in 2023 regarding the geological formations in the sonar imaging of this area, and Sam Candido, who was heading an expedition exploring the seafloor around the Aleutians, responded that they would possibly add this site to their list and look at it in the future depending on weather. However, they required a NDA to be signed to see the results for the "protection of cultural heritage sites." 47.32.37.155 (talk) 17:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can leave out reviews, this is not a forum. Slatersteven (talk) 16:23, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Evaluating potential sources is a legitimate use of article talk pages, and using the ridiculous chapter titles to show why we aren't going to cite this nonsense saves a lot of unnecessary waffle. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:26, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been found. 174.199.228.61 (talk) 17:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source? Slatersteven (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here you go. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna42072469. 174.199.228.61 (talk) 17:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A report from 20011, which says that researchers claim to have found it. What has happened since, to verify this supposed astonishing discovery? AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:42, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That just says one team claims to have found Atlantis. They need to publish and have their supposition validated by the archaeological community. Schazjmd (talk) 17:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Useful reading: [1] AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:49, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So we can say "has claimed to have found"...which we do. Slatersteven (talk) 17:59, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Atlantis is real. I an a historian. 174.199.228.61 (talk) 18:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See wp:or. Slatersteven (talk) 18:03, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This isn’t about original research. I am a historian. 174.199.228.61 (talk) 18:04, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another source. https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/lost-atlantis-continent-nearly-twice-as-big-as-uk-discovered-off-the-coast-of-australia-4903021/amp/1. 174.199.228.61 (talk) 18:16, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]