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September 20

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Category:Border-crossing railways

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:04, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Border-crossing railways to Category:International railway lines
Nominator's rationale: Merge as obvious duplicate. Pichpich (talk) 18:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:WikiProject Avatar: The Last Airbender articles

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2D. Timrollpickering (talk) 20:23, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Avatar: The Last Airbender articles to Category:Avatar: The Last Airbender task force articles
Nominator's rationale: Avatar: The Last Airbender is no longer a WikiProject. It is now a task force of WP:TV. JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 18:12, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States church-state separation case law

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep.--Mike Selinker (talk) 03:01, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:United States church-state separation case law to Category:Establishment Clause case law
Nominator's rationale: Rename. As with other subcategories of Category:United States constitutional case law, this should be named by the functional clause, not the theme or result it is popularly thought to be associated with. To be sure, the Establishment Clause is the constitutional source of the separation of church and state principle in the United States (along with the "no religious test" clause). But the Establishment Clause goes further, with many cases dealing with principles such as non-discrimination between sects, etc. which are not easily understood as separation. As there is no other "Establishment Clause," there is no need for the category to contain "U.S." (see, e.g. Category: Takings Clause case law). Savidan 17:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipediholic Helpers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy delete - G7: Author requests deletion. Reaper Eternal (talk) 15:07, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Wikipediholic Helpers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete Humorous category but it's still a user category unrelated to the primary mission of Wikipedia. Pichpich (talk) 17:01, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is something wrong: it doesn't conform to what the relevant guideline says is an acceptable user category. Does this category have the capacity to facilitate coordination and collaboration between users for the improvement of the encyclopedia? I don't see how you can make the argument unless you can tell me with a straight face that you a) expect people who actually have a very real and serious addiction problem to turn to you and b) consider that you have the fine expertise required to truly help them in a meaningful way. Pichpich (talk) 21:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States mythology and folklore

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Upmerge. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:06, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Near disasters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Redundant category. Recommend Upmerge to Category:American folklore. Goustien (talk) 16:40, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Near disasters

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:08, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Near disasters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete I don't think the category is necessary and its definition is problematic. Indeed it's hard to objectively decide how close to "imminent major loss of human life" you have to get before you qualify for this category. In any case, the scope of categories like Category:Accidents and incidents involving airliners is wide enough to include serious accidents, relatively minor incidents and everything in between. The "near disasters" category is relatively new and doesn't really fill a void. Pichpich (talk) 16:07, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I'm the creator of the category. We have lots of categories about things that went wrong, I thought one about situations where people did the right thing and averted a disaster would be interesting to our readers. I think the test for inclusion in this category can be evaluated based on what reliable sources say about a candidate incident. The category that nominator cites is far broader than the one I propose and only covers incidents involving airliners. We could at least wait to see if the category proves unwieldy.--agr (talk) 19:18, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I see that point but I'm also concerned that some articles will become hard to find because they'll appear only in one of two categorization schemes that will be almost parallel. Pichpich (talk) 21:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Take a search of 'near disaster' in Google news: a high number of development disabilities is a near disaster a dancing performance can be a near disaster, if you include the hyphenated formCurb Chain (talk) 06:44, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Hyphenated aircraft categories

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:39, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
155 aircraft categories with hyphenated date ranges
Nominator's rationale: Rename and leave redirects. These categories, proposed for Speedy renaming this week, are out of step with our guideline on date ranges, which in no uncertain terms prefers en-dashes to hyphens. This common-sense change for aircraft categories was proposed in December, and was shouted down by a "Won't someone please think of the children!" argument—despite a long-standing approach of leaving redirects in our thousands of hyphen/en-dash category changes. The battle over en-dashes seems to have quieted down, so I'm hoping we can just push these outliers through without breaking the internet.--Mike Selinker (talk) 13:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename. Every other article and category on Wikipedia follows MOS:DASH and uses en dashes for year ranges. The only argument appears to be that the MoS is 'only a guideline'. While that's true, guidelines still need to have very good reasons to be ignored. You can't just show up at an AfD and say "Keep – WP:N is only a guideline". That said, I can understand the concern about typing en dashes, but as long as redirects are left in place, then there's no problem. Jenks24 (talk) 13:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename I'm not a big fan of MOSDASH but I don't see any strong reason that these should be inconsistent with other year ranges, per Jenks24. If redirects are created, the renaming shouldn't cause much inconvenience to editors. cab (call) 13:41, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename and leave redirects per nom – there is no great difficulty in producing en- or em-dashes anyway. Occuli (talk) 17:28, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per nom and leave redirects. Good heavens, yes—there's no reason for these to be the only ones that are not changed to the standard formatting. Some adjustment of templates will be required, but once that is done, this won't cause any categorization problems, especially if the redirects are created from the hyphenated form, as they almost always are in cases such as this. Just not liking a particular guideline seems like a particularly bad (as in "totally subjective") reason not to proceed. (I do find it strange that this has even been such an issue in this context. If you want to fight it out—fight it out at the MOS page; we don't need to re-fight it every time someone attempts to implement a convention.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep against the odds. I hear all the others have been changed and it is easy to type the em dash with some trickery, it might be a guideline but you have to understand the truth etc etc we went through these discussions last time and it failed to gain a consensus for these categories. But as I am up against a brick wall of establishment it doesnt really matter what I say, no sign of assuming good faith here. And you guys wonder why it keeps being raised, perhaps because it is a daft idea. Categories are used for finding stuff not part of a degree course in typography, so we will change 2000 categories and create a shed full of redirects for no actual useful purpose in the real world, most of the readers dont actually care but as long as my Standard English Keyboard only has a hyphen I will oppose this daftness, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:28, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The only categories that keep getting brought up on this issue are the ones that haven't changed to the en-dash. The many categories that have changed are not repeatedly brought up—and in fact no complaints at all regarding this issue have been registered at CFD since the changes, as far as I know. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:33, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Carnivàle

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: No consensus. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:10, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Carnivàle (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Only five articles--easily navigated by footer. —Justin (koavf)TCM09:34, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dance Your Ass Off

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. — ξxplicit 01:51, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Dance Your Ass Off (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Only three articles. —Justin (koavf)TCM09:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Sing-Off

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. — ξxplicit 01:51, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:The Sing-Off (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Only two articles. —Justin (koavf)TCM09:30, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Space: Above and Beyond

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus, leaning toward keep. Five seems about the threshold for keeping, based on previous nominations (which are all over the map, it seems).--Mike Selinker (talk) 04:29, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Space: Above and Beyond (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization, only five articles. —Justin (koavf)TCM09:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Atheistic existentialism

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:Atheist existentialism. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:36, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Atheistic existentialism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Overly small category. At the very least, rename Category:Atheist existentialismJustin (koavf)TCM06:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm talking about just this category which, pun unintended, exists. You haven't convinced me that it doesn't have room to grow even by populating using existing articles, say books about the subjects and I'm not sure I see the benefit in its deletion. Pichpich (talk) 04:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Response Virtually any topic could have a populated category--that's not why categories exist. They exist in order to create ontological schemes for actually existing content on the encyclopedia. —Justin (koavf)TCM05:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's pretty obvious that most topics would never lead to decently populated categories and I'm sure you know this. Your sole argument for deletion is that the category is too small. That's fine if you can show that this is an intrinsic problem and not the result of under-population. We don't delete underpopulated categories, we populate them. Pichpich (talk) 15:53, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bowl Challenge Cup winners

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. — ξxplicit 01:51, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Bowl Challenge Cup winners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Unneeded category that groups major college athletic conferences by an obscure criterion. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
To amplify my rationale above, this category is more or less a partial rehash of Category:NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision conferences. Sooner or later, all of the 11 FBS conferences are probably going to win a Bowl Challenge Cup. Also, the way this category is deployed, it renders a college football award over whole conferences, which are multi-faceted and regulate many different sports. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:57, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. It's just an award that, at best, will contain up to 11 articles, each of which are already part of Category:NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision conferences (as Jweiss11 mentioned). It's a pretty redundant category that really doesn't aide navigation in any sense of the term. Jrcla2 (talk) 23:48, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This redundancy to the NCAA Divison I Football Bowl Subdivision conferences category makes this an example of overcat.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:56, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Black-and-white media

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep. A separate Category:Black-and-white works can be created if needs be. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Black-and-white media to Category:Black-and-white works
Nominator's rationale: Per most creative works categories.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 04:53, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Media with live action and animation

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:37, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Media with live action and animation to Category:Works with live action and animation
Nominator's rationale: Per most categories about creative works.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 04:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Media about the Pony Express

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:07, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Media about the Pony Express to Category:Works about the Pony Express
Nominator's rationale: Not as lightly populated as you might think. Contains five films and TV shows, and two redirects. I'm not sure it merits keeping, but regardless it should be renamed per most "Works about" categories.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 03:42, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I don't think Media and Works have the same definition. The first category appears to be the more clearly worded one to me. I'd opt for conciseness.--LauraHale (talk) 01:00, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Media about space programs

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:07, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Media about space programs to Category:Works about space programs
Nominator's rationale: A lightly populated category, which makes me wonder if it couldn't be broadened some.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 03:40, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I don't think Media and Works have the same definition. The first category appears to be the more clearly worded one to me. I'd opt for conciseness.--LauraHale (talk) 00:59, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
They don't, it's true. However, these categories are now part of a parallel track of Works/Media categories that we've converted a couple of hundred of by now, where the "media" have in fact all been creative works. For example, in this nomination about the American Revolution, "media" was switched to "works." This is like that.--Mike Selinker (talk) 10:10, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Media about telephones

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Media about telephones (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Contains only one category and a redirect.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 03:35, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Media about art

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:13, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Media about art to Category:Works about art
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 03:33, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wuthering Heights albums

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2B/D. Timrollpickering (talk) 20:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Wuthering Heights albums to Category:Wuthering Heights (band) albums
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Given the existence of Category:Wuthering Heights, this category should probably be renamed to match Wuthering Heights (band) in order to eliminate possible confusion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:23, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Directors of the DAS

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:38, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Directors of the DAS to Category:Directors of the Administrative Department of Security
Nominator's rationale: Rename. DAS is ambiguous. I suggest matching the reference in the category to Administrative Department of Security. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.