Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Empire of Japan (additional economic and financial data)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No concensus (default keep). JERRY ^talk _contribs 02:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Empire of Japan (additional economic and financial data)

This survived a VFD, but it still has almost nothing in the way of references, so I believe it should be deleted. Superm401 - Talk 02:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Sourcing issues aside, I'm a little baffled as to why Empire of Japan (economic and financial data) needs a supplimental page like this—it's not exactly overlong, even combined with this one. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and any key information from this page should be moved there before deletion. However, that page is barely sourced either, so it may need to be deleted eventually too. Superm401 - Talk 03:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that deletion discussions are not to be used as cleanup processes. You are introducing here a contemplated deletion of a topic which clearly has a valid place in Wikipedia. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge, obviously.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 05:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would be disappointed if all the information were merged, because most of it is unsourced. Superm401 - Talk 05:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Talk:Empire of Japan/Additional economic and financial data and leave a comment at Talk:Empire of Japan that it needs verification. This preserves the edit history; we can then delete the resulting useless cross-namespace redirect left behind at Empire of Japan (additional economic and financial data). Similar treatment should be applied to Empire of Japan (economic and financial data). Either 1) someone took the trouble of entering this stuff into Wikipedia, possibly translating it from Japanese in the process, or 2) they made it up out of whole cloth. Given the potential that it's fake, it shouldn't be in mainspace, but since it might be real, it should be preserved somewhere while editors try to verify it. cab (talk) 07:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Lack of references, per se, is not a proper reason for deletion; deletion debates must primarily address the topic. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Extremely detailed and specific numbers without any references at all should not be permitted to persist in mainspace for years and years, as this has. Verifiability is an extremely basic policy around here and standards have risen greatly since this article was first created. Wikipedia should not be presenting utterly unverified information as fact for such a long period of time; unsourced content should be aggressively removed as per the famous Jimbo quote at WP:PROVEIT. We can create an article again about the Economy of the Empire of Japan when sufficient sources are available. cab (talk) 09:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is entirely within policy to remove unverified information. That is not the question here. (By the way, not everyone equates "aggressive" with good.) Making a deletion debate here is muddling the issue. A merge of the article can be proposed through the channel for merging. Removal of content is not a deletion debate. The proposal here is attempting removal of the page, without the option, for non-admins, to work on the statistics. I note that the proposer has not engaged in Talk page discussion of specifics. Charles Matthews (talk) 13:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reorganise - The information here, if it is reliable, needs to be integrated with Empire of Japan and/or Economic history of Japan. As it is currently presented it is more just a list than encyclopaedic. - 52 Pickup (talk) 14:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The sourcing is an issue, and has been a long time -- as in, removing the unverified material would leave an empty article. Part of the problem is it's buried -- a subarticle of a subarticle, where hardly anyone's would have noticed there's a problem. Definitely some sort of reorganization is needed in order to evaluate which of the material is essential and which can be pruned, and then focus on sourcing and organizing the former. What I would like to do is merge this into Empire of Japan (economic and financial data), and then merge the result into, um, possibly Empire of Japan is the best target here, but someone more familiar with the subject may know better -- then remand the hodgepodge to the Wikiproject Japan people to sort out. After a good faith time to work on it -- I suggest at least six months, given many sources will be in Japanese -- revisit the problem. —Quasirandom (talk) 02:01, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and reorganise per Quasirandom's excellent plan. Carcharoth (talk) 16:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'm unsure about the rationale behind a merge. The content is merged - and then what? Citation needed tags are applied, and within a week the content removed. All that remain is an implausible redirect. Don't see the advantage. Addhoc (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - unless sources are found, in which case merge. Addhoc (talk) 14:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge The sources must exist, but probably not in English. Going to take time. Go with Quasirandom's plan. Hobit (talk) 19:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.