Talk:lampa
Add topicPolish "lampa" - Descriptive vs Prescriptive quarrel
[edit]Polish lampa in meaning "light bulb" is prescriptive (okay according to dictionary but ranging from archaic to ununderstable). Polish dictionaries are prescriptive (they prescribe meaning not describe how word is used) - they are good source but not in case of descriptive vs prescriptive quarrel.
From descriptive standpoint (Usus)
-"lampa" is never used as "light bulb" only as "furniture" or "oil lamp"
-"żarówka" does not need to have "żarnik" [meaning has extended]
From prescriptive standpoint (Not-Usus) [out-of-sync dictionaries]
-"lampa" is used as "light bulb"
-"żarówka" does need to have "żarnik"
I could slap that colloquial or informal on żarówka in meaning "any light bulb" and call it a day, but phrase "żarówka LED" is already used in formal contexts - by shops and manufacturers. This leaded to (prescriptive) flag on lampa - according to gloss - "Correct and consistent according to linguistic rules, but not in general use.". If you have better solution I would hear about that.
If someone needs proof for that situation
- google: "żarówka LED" 2 milion results
- google: "lampa LED" 4 milion results - but from google images for 100 first results only 1 is actual light bulb, rest are furniture. So we can estimate only around 400 000 results are for the "light device" meaning.
- google: "żarówki LED"(plural) 4 milion results
- google: "lampy LED"(plural) 2 milion results images - ratio 3 lighting bulb to 50 all (47 furniture)-estimation 120 000 results.
-google: "lampa" gives 208 000 000 results - images first page - none for anything other than furniture,
first result "Lampy.pl: Lampy i oświetlenie & żarówki LED" - contains "żarówki LED"
castorama,Leroy Merlin,Ikea,Allegro,Ceneo - "żarówki LED"
I do not make claim that language standard "lampa LED" or lampa should be removed from dictionary, but it should be clearly marked that while "lampa" as "A device that generates heat, light or other radiation.Especially an electric light bulb." is ok by linguist definition it is not in general use.(31.182.222.158) — This unsigned comment was added at 02:30, 30 December 2020 (UTC).
- (Notifying Hergilei, Tweenk, Shumkichi, Wrzodek, Asank neo): Could you please have a look at this comment and these two edits made by the same IP: Special:Diff/61426776, Special:Diff/61426735? — surjection ⟨??⟩ 11:21, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
- I think they are overreacting and making it a much more complicated problem than it really is. It's quite simple: the general meaning of "lampa" is "ANY device that generates light". In colloquial use, people usually distinguish between "lampa", "lampka" (diminutive), and "żarówka". I would personally use "lampa" in the meaning of "street lamp/street light" and to describe a bigger home device, such as "pendant lamp/ceiling light" (I don't really know how you refer to these in English and if you even make any distinction); "lampka" would be a smaller lamp, such as a "bed lamp/side-table lamp"; and I would use "żarówka" to describe a "light bulb". So I don't think it is a matter of prescriptivism but rather of the distinction between technical and colloquial use. Shumkichi (talk) 15:34, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
- "the general meaning of "lampa" is "ANY device that generates light"." - no it's not. the general meaning of lampa is light fixture. It's never "ANY device that generates light" in modern times. It's related to frame of device and may or may not include device that generates light - term shifted but prescriptive definition stayed.
From wikipedia talk: (of "Lampa led" {Polish prescriptivism - not used, as you can see} )
"Jednak społeczeństwo przyzwyczaiło już się (niesłusznie) że lampa to zespół elementów oprawowych i ozdobnych wraz z elementami świetlnymi." (eng. "However, the public has now become accustomed (incorrectly) that the lamp is a decorative frame with light elements.").
Or "Gdy jeden ignorant, lub fachowiec od reklamy krzyknął "żarówka LED", a dziesiątki papug to powtórzyło, to nie znaczy że z takim absurdem musimy dalej żyć - kolego. Po to mamy wspaniałe narzędzie w postaci Wikipedii, aby uświadomić społeczeństwu błąd. " ("When one ignorant or advertising specialist shouted "żarówka LED" and dozens of parrots repeated it, it does not mean that we have to continue living with such an absurdity - my friend. This is why we have a wonderful tool, Wikipedia, to make the public aware of the error.")
I want you to see breaking of NOTADVOCACY - scientific one to promote term that is not used by people - but comment author percive normal term as "absurdity")
Again from "Oprawa oświetleniowa" (light fixture):
"Wg. mnie stwierdzenie "inaczej lampa" jest niepoprawne. Lampa to źródło światła czyli żarówka, świetlówka, rtęciówka itp. Oprawa to obudowa do lampy(źródła światła)." ("According to for me the statement "otherwise lamp" is incorrect. A lamp is a light source, i.e. a bulb, a fluorescent lamp, a mercury vapor lamp, etc. The luminaire is a housing for a lamp (light source).") - advocacy and no source. If you look in polish version of "light fixture" you will see that word lampa was common but, removed because of advocacy for term "oprawa oświetleniowa" which may be correct technical term but not used by population (218 000 of results).(31.182.222.158) — This unsigned comment was added at 11:27, 22 January 2021 (UTC). - I removed my proposal - because I forgoten about 3 meaning. That one should be basic meaning of word.
And before someone starts about fact that this my subjective view - it is NOT, I would not use word lampa to any piece of furniture, only "floor lamp" - but that at most familiolect - not Usus. --31.182.222.158 10:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- "the general meaning of "lampa" is "ANY device that generates light"." - no it's not. the general meaning of lampa is light fixture. It's never "ANY device that generates light" in modern times. It's related to frame of device and may or may not include device that generates light - term shifted but prescriptive definition stayed.
- I think they are overreacting and making it a much more complicated problem than it really is. It's quite simple: the general meaning of "lampa" is "ANY device that generates light". In colloquial use, people usually distinguish between "lampa", "lampka" (diminutive), and "żarówka". I would personally use "lampa" in the meaning of "street lamp/street light" and to describe a bigger home device, such as "pendant lamp/ceiling light" (I don't really know how you refer to these in English and if you even make any distinction); "lampka" would be a smaller lamp, such as a "bed lamp/side-table lamp"; and I would use "żarówka" to describe a "light bulb". So I don't think it is a matter of prescriptivism but rather of the distinction between technical and colloquial use. Shumkichi (talk) 15:34, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Definition
[edit]@Mlgc1998 Just wondering where you got "lame"? The dictionaries I see, the definition isn't exactly "lame", or it's not necessary to be "lame" to be "lampa". --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:15, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser the definition in diksiyonaryo.ph and the definition for lame looks like it matches up. doesn't necessarily seem to need to be a crippling bone or muscle injury to be lame. the instances I can think of where someone still walks improperly usually still leads back to some sort of problem or temporary obstruction they gotta deal with or some scenario of pretending to have such. I've already experienced this scenario where I walked as such, not cuz my legs were broken, more of cuz I had skin asthma wounds at my hough that would hurt if I stood and walked straight Mlgc1998 (talk) 15:31, 10 May 2022 (UTC)