Talk:ground
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Kiwima in topic RFV discussion: August 2019
See also Talk:grounds.
Who is grounded?
[edit]In the US at least, the person grounded as a punishment is generally a child ("I was grounded for a week for breaking my little brother's train set."). Is Dutch "huisarrest geven" used in this context? In US usage, house arrest is applied only to adults, particularly to political figures "The respected activist former prime minister was placed under house arrest by the junta."
- I was just wondering about this (just the German version Hausarrest). It's used in the legal sense you describe, but it's also used for children. Only for the latter there's a synonym Stubenarrest, which I personally think is more common.
Duplicate Sections
[edit]Any reason not to merge the two verb from sections in this article? Phatom87 12:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- You mean the three sections. No, they should all probably be merged unless there are separate etymologies behind them.
pl & adjective
[edit]grounds, plural noun 1. surrounding land: the land surrounding and belonging to a building 2. dregs: the sediment or dregs of a drink, especially coffee adjective happening, living, working, or operating on the ground ground crews, a message from ground control Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:37, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
A.) Those definitions for grounds can be found on that page. B.) I don't see your example as being an adjective, but only an attributive use of the noun ground in a compound noun. -Mike (talk) 16:20, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
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Adjective, both senses:
- Crushed, or reduced to small particles.
- Synonym: milled
- ground mustard seed
- Processed by grinding.
- lenses of ground glass
- I don't think these are true adjectives rather than mere past participles. (I don't get the distinction between the definitions either.) DCDuring (talk) 03:57, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- The obvious distinction is that the first applies to the thing ground in its entirety, and reduces it to a less defined mass substance, while the second just applies to some part of it, generally the surface- there's a big difference between grinding a mirror into dust and merely grinding it smooth. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- I see the distinction you are making. But i still don't see it in the second definition and usage example.
- But the main issue is whether these are true adjectives. MWOnline, for example, doesn't have any adjective PoS. DCDuring (talk) 05:16, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- I wasn't addressing that issue, just your aside about not getting the distinction between the senses. Obviously you get something to be in a state that can be described as ground by grinding it, so I don't see it as anything but verbal. Also, you don't have something more ground, just more finely or more completely ground. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:34, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- I can seem to imagine a difference between "that meat you bought, was it ground?" (i.e. was it already in that state; the focus isn't on whether an agent did the grinding; compare "was it cold?") and "when was that meat ground?" (much more verbal, dealing with the act, not asking "when was it in that end state?"). Equinox ◑ 20:01, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- The obvious distinction is that the first applies to the thing ground in its entirety, and reduces it to a less defined mass substance, while the second just applies to some part of it, generally the surface- there's a big difference between grinding a mirror into dust and merely grinding it smooth. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- The OED seems to have both verb and adjective senses for this sort of word, in most cases. Equinox ◑ 20:02, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- I don't have access. Do they have definitions for this particular word as adjective? Do their cites for the adjective use of this word meet our tests for adjectivity? DCDuring (talk) 02:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- I guess a test might be use after forms of copulatives other than forms of be, eg, seem, appear, look, feel, sound, smell, taste. Use after forms of be is too ambiguous. Can all past participles be used after those sorts of verbs? If so, why would we ever need an adjective section unless the past participle took on a novel meaning, not one found in the verb, or could be modified by very or too. DCDuring (talk) 02:45, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- I don't have access. Do they have definitions for this particular word as adjective? Do their cites for the adjective use of this word meet our tests for adjectivity? DCDuring (talk) 02:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- The OED seems to have both verb and adjective senses for this sort of word, in most cases. Equinox ◑ 20:02, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, they have "reduced to fine particles by grinding or crushing". Citations include "ground and powdered refined sugar", "rice whole, [ditto] ground", "oatmeal and ground linseed", "ground indigo", etc. and even "the roots of chicory, when dried and ground". Equinox ◑ 12:06, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Those don't establish that it is an adjective. DCDuring (talk) 12:47, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, they have "reduced to fine particles by grinding or crushing". Citations include "ground and powdered refined sugar", "rice whole, [ditto] ground", "oatmeal and ground linseed", "ground indigo", etc. and even "the roots of chicory, when dried and ground". Equinox ◑ 12:06, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- I tried searching for "(is|are|was|were) {very ground|more ground than}" but there were no relevant hits. - -sche (discuss) 04:07, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Which sense is right for this cite?
*(Not copulative)2013, Victoria Jenanyan Wise, The Armenian Table Cookbook[1], page 129:- Lamb is the signature meat of Armenian cuisine. It appears ground for meatballs, as whole leg or whole beast, in kebab chunks for grilling, as shanks for braising, and as riblets to add a meat element to vegetable stews.
- I'll look for more. DCDuring (talk) 12:47, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- 2000, Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland[2], page 258:
- The axial perforation, the handle socket and the quern base are all rough and do not appear ground or polished
- 1985, Sergeĭ Aristarkhovich Semenov, Prehistoric Technology: An Experimental Study of the Oldest Tools and Artefacts from Traces of Manufacture and Wear[3], page 14:
- been used on hard materials the traces of wear have the appearance of dull patches that look ground.
- Two
more, fourthreeto go. DCDuring (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2019 (UTC)- All six cites are in the entry, three for each definition. Thanks to all for bearing with me. DCDuring (talk) 23:27, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Well, how do you feel about preground? If your sentence said "it appears preground" then that could conceivably be interpreted as a verb pregrind + -EN but to me it feels like pre- ground (ground already) which is not a verb form. And how do you feel about unground, likewise clearly not a verb form? Equinox ◑ 12:52, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- I feel really good about them, so I'm optimistic that somewhere there is attestation for the term under challenge. Unfortunately, I'm pessimistic about finding it soon. DCDuring (talk) 22:50, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Cited, IMHO. DCDuring (talk) 23:28, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 21:58, 27 August 2019 (UTC)