Talk:bunuh
Please, polyglot, I don't think this is very useful!! Indonesian has word roots, and in the common dictionaries all words are listed under their roots. If you want to look up "pembunuhan", you have to know that the root is "bunuh". So we should do the same here, too! Kadel 13:11, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- We don't absolutely have to do things the way they are done in paper dictionaries. In fact, this is where a dictionary in electronic form has advantages. If we describe each and every possible spelling of a word, it will be possible to look up words that way. Taking away the necessity of knowing the root word. I hope you agree with me that this is an advantage. If I ever want to learn Indonesian, I'm sure I would be glad I can just look up words, as I see them written, without having to try and guess what the root might be. Of course, we maybe we should refer back to these roots, somehow. I didn't do this (yet).
- In fact the same thing happens for English compound words. They also get their own entries, whereas in paper dictionaries they are grouped under an (arbitrary) head word.
- Please let me know if this poses any problems. It might make it harder to copy from a conventional dictionary. But we are not supposed to do that anyway. Polyglot 14:23, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Apparently the Indonesian root word system is something like what we don't have in English. The root words may or may not exist as words in themselves (apparently bunuh doesn't, so I'm not listing it as a part of speech like 'verb') but see use as the base for derivational and inflectional prefixes and suffixes. BTW, here's an example Indonesian-English dictionary definition of the word I found on the Internet:
- Word: bunuh
- English Definition: *to kill. *MEM-: to kill. *PEM-: killer. PEM--AN: murder.###
- Short Definition: to kill. MEM-: to kill. PEM-: killer. PEM--AN: murder.
- L2 Definition: Membuat mati orang lain. ###
- Notes: Combinations/Idioms: *bunuh diri=to commit suicide; *pembunuh bayaran. ###
- Examples: Karena tidak kuat menanggung derita akhirnya Siti Nurbaya BUNUH DIRI. = Because she wasn't able to endure suffering, in the end Siti Nurbaya COMMITTED SUICIDE. Dia dihukum mati karena MEMBUNUH banyak orang. = He was sentenced to death because he KILLED
- These affixes appear to be a very small set and regular in form if not in semantics, so for Indonesian speakers this format is probably more useful, but I agree with Polyglot that in en.Wiktionary, which is geared towards English speakers, this shouldn't be done. Doubtless id.Wiktionary, when it becomes available, will do otherwise. —Muke Tever 16:29, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Other people who have added Indonesian word have mostly created a link from the derived word to the root. See for example leave: "meninggalkan" leads you, when you click it, to the root of this word "tinggal" (there you don't find "meninggalkan" yet - I'll take care of that). I think it would be the best alternative to have the root and all the words that are formed out of this root on one page, but put the derived words on the lists (the Indonesian index and the translation lists for english words), so that someone who does't know the root can find them easily.
- Kadel 16:25, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- I must admit, I didn't understand why these people were doing that... Polyglot 16:47, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Sometimes the root itself has a meaning, sometimes not. For example, "to kill" is actually "membunuh", but in colloqial speach you can also say "bunuh". Especially for verbs it is very important to know the root, because in some cases the verbs change, loose their prefix. Everyone who seriously wants to learn Indonesian will at least have to learn the basics of this system of roots, prefixes and suffixes. So I still think it would be best to put the root with all the words derived from it on one page. Kadel 19:19, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- I've just changed this heading to ===Verb===, as Wiktionary has not been supporting stem forms for a couple years now, but rather has been giving every separate spelling its own entry. --Connel MacKenzie T C 04:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)