Talk:تیز
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[edit]The source for word تیز says the following: "origin The old Turkish thesis “run! (order)” has evolved from the word. This word comes from the Old Turkish the verb "to escape"? derived from the suffix. See treble for more information. Persian and Middle Persian tīz or tēz تیز “1. sharp, pointed, 2. quick, fast” is a quote from the word. This word is synonymous with the Avestan word taeça- or taeja-, which means the same thing. This word is Sanskrit tic-, tigma तिज्, तिग्म “to be sharp or pointed; It is synonymous with the word "spiky". This word has evolved from the Indo-European Mother Tongue form *(s)tei̯g-, which has the same meaning and has no written examples." The source is in doubt as to whether it comes from Old Turkish and even if it does Old Turkish (8th-13th centuries) is younger than Middle Persian (2th-6th centuries) making this proposed borrowing from common Turkish/Turkic almost impossible If there is another source please someone share it. CaesarVafadar (talk) 04:32, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- Tīz comes from sharp, tezmek comes from to flee, I don't think sharp can turn into to flee. Old Turkic, Turkmen, Sakha, and Khalaj have long vowels, well, Persian tīz does but Turkics don't. Maybe they are phonetically close separate words. BurakD53 (talk) 10:19, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- The reason why I deleted the Turkic part was because the source by "Nişanyan, Sevan" says the A) Tez in modern Turkish comes from Old Turkish 8th-13th Century, which is younger than Middle Persian by 200 years and B) When you click on treble for more information in the website (as it directs you to do so) it says the word is from Middle Persian tīz or tēz with the meaning of 1)Sharp and 2) Quick. C) it could be that they are similar sounding words but ultimately unrelated for example look at çekiç in Turkish and چکش in New Persian and Middle Persian čakuč. Do you have another source which can pin point to something older than Old Turkish/Turkic, otherwise the only evidence as to the origin of where the word comes from that we have says it is Middle Persian which is an Older language than Old Turkish/Turkic by at least 200 years, Which is why I asked for another source that can says for a certain the word is of Turkic origin otherwise have to leave it without the Turkic part. CaesarVafadar (talk) 00:39, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- We can't find an older source, which doesn't exist anyway. But we can reconstruct it without a source. Turkic written literature has begun in the 7th century. When we reconstruct it earlier, it goes back to the *ter' root, probably in Xiongnu BC. Mongolian *tergi- most likely the same word. I agree that they can be different words from each other. BurakD53 (talk) 07:45, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- While we are at, I also do agree that it could be a descendant of the Turkic *ter' root from a much earlier borrowing, Because A) I can't find any other source which gives the meaning of quick from "tēz" and B) it seems likely enough considering the meaning from the Turkic word, C) There are other words used for the meaning of quick which other sources can confirm such as, zūd, šēb, raɣ and D) Sadly I do not know Old Persian/Indo-Iranian or even Sanskrit to find any relatives for it. We'll just leave it to the future reader to decide for themselves. It's been pleasant discussing this with you. CaesarVafadar (talk) 09:51, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- We can't find an older source, which doesn't exist anyway. But we can reconstruct it without a source. Turkic written literature has begun in the 7th century. When we reconstruct it earlier, it goes back to the *ter' root, probably in Xiongnu BC. Mongolian *tergi- most likely the same word. I agree that they can be different words from each other. BurakD53 (talk) 07:45, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- The reason why I deleted the Turkic part was because the source by "Nişanyan, Sevan" says the A) Tez in modern Turkish comes from Old Turkish 8th-13th Century, which is younger than Middle Persian by 200 years and B) When you click on treble for more information in the website (as it directs you to do so) it says the word is from Middle Persian tīz or tēz with the meaning of 1)Sharp and 2) Quick. C) it could be that they are similar sounding words but ultimately unrelated for example look at çekiç in Turkish and چکش in New Persian and Middle Persian čakuč. Do you have another source which can pin point to something older than Old Turkish/Turkic, otherwise the only evidence as to the origin of where the word comes from that we have says it is Middle Persian which is an Older language than Old Turkish/Turkic by at least 200 years, Which is why I asked for another source that can says for a certain the word is of Turkic origin otherwise have to leave it without the Turkic part. CaesarVafadar (talk) 00:39, 16 February 2023 (UTC)