Commons:Deletion requests/File:Patung Sura dan Buaya.JPG

No FOP in Indonesia so this has to be old to be ok. No information about who the author is or when (s)he died.~ MGA73 (talk) 19:39, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Part Four, Works Protected under Copyright, Article 12 (1) l. of Law of The Republic Indonesia Number 19 Year 2002 Regarding Copyright[1], defines kinds of works protected by copyright, including:

"l. translations, interpretations, adaptations, anthologies, database and other works as result of changing of form of mode."

Article 12 (2). Works as reffered to item l are protected as a work of its own without prejudice to the Copyright over the original work.

In other words, works resulting from transformations itself is protected by copyright.

The term works as result of changing of form of mode is explained further in The State Gazette of the Republic of Indonesia, Explanation Note Article 12 letter l:

"What is meant by works as result of changing of form of mode is the change of format, for example: statue to painting, romantic novel to drama, drama to radio play, and novel to movie."[2]

If it shall be permissible to reproduce a statue by painting, then it shall be also permissible to to reproduce a statue by photography. Midori (talk) 08:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I nominated the file for deletion because of the text on Commons:FOP#Indonesia. If it is wrong or not 100 % clear then the text there should be fixed.

Article 12 says that sculptures are protected by copyright. As read Article 12 (2) it says that IF you make a painting (or a photo) of a statue etc. then the painting (or photo) would ALSO be copyrighted. Where do you see that it shall not be deemed as Copyright infringement if you change format? --MGA73 (talk) 18:04, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:FOP#Indonesia should be fixed indeed. As read in Article 12 (2) it says "Works as referred to in item I are protected as a work of its own without prejudice to the Copyright over the original work."

Creating derivative works such as translations, interpretations, adaptations, anthologies, data-base and other works as a result of changing of form of mode (Article 12 (1) item l) are not only permissible but "protected as a work of its own without prejudice to the Copyright over the original work." Midori (talk) 00:54, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Commons_talk:Freedom_of_panorama#Indonesia. The statue in question is government-commissioned works, therefore there shall be no infringement of copyright. Midori (talk) 06:21, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

1) I still do not understand why a text that says that a work as a result of changing of form is protected should mean that it is ok to take photos of a statue etc.

2) If the statue is a government-commissioned work then it is another case. But then we need some proof that it IS a government-commissioned work and that the work is covered by article 14. There is an exception in Article 14 "...except if the Copyright is declared to be protected by law or regulation or by a statement on the work itself or at the time the work is published...". Could there be a sign on or near the statue saying it is copyrighted? --MGA73 (talk) 16:11, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

1) There is another example. Article 16 on obligatory translation/reproduction of books in Indonesian language. The Minister, after hearing the considerations of the Copyright Council may:

a. obligate the Copyright Holder to himself carry out the translation and/or reproduction of such work in the territory of the Republic of Indonesia within a stipulated period of time;

b. obligate the Copyright Holder concerned to grant a license to other parties to translate and/or to reproduce such work in the territory of the Republic of Indonesia within a stipulated period of time, where the Copyright Holder concerned does not himself carry out the obligations as referred to in item a;

c. If the copyright holder cannot carry out the translation, then other parties can be designated to carry out the translation and/or reproduction of such work, where the Copyright Holder does not carry out the obligations as referred to in item b.

As read in Article 16 (1) c., the permission from the copyright holder is not needed to carry out the translation.

2) The statue in question is not quite "a work of art" as you think. It is the symbol of the City of Surabaya. The statue in question is located at the main entrance of Surabaya Zoo. It would be considered superfluous to engrave the sculptor's name on a plaque on or near the statue in question. The owner of the statue in question is the public (City of Surabaya). The statue is usually maintained and repainted twice a year by the zoo staff.[3]. The statue in question is also a three-dimensional reproduction of the city's shark-crocodile logo.[4] The original painter of shark fighting crocodile is unknown; the drawing of shark-crocodile fighting might be as old as the legend itself. The same shark-crocodile logo was used in 100 Gulden bank notes issued by Javasche Bank in 1897 (see the first logo on the upper left)[5]. Monuments and landmarks in Indonesia are government-commissioned works. The sculptors and the architects are hired by government-appointed contractors, and releasing their works as government-owned properties. Midori (talk) 13:25, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The following is the Regulation Minister of the Interior on local government properties categorization.

Regulation of the Minister of the Interior of the Republic of Indonesia Number 17 Year 2007 Regarding Technical Guidelines on Local Government Properties[6]

Appendix 5 Local government properties categorization

a. Local government properties are categorized into 6 (six) groups, as follows:

1) Land

[...]

2) Equipments and Machineries

[...]

3) Buildings and structures

a) [...]

b) monument structures

Candi, Nature-made Monuments, Historical Monuments, Commemoration Statues, others and that sort of thing.

[...]

The statue in question belongs to the local government (City of Surabaya). There shall be no infringement of Copyright for publication and/or reproduction of anything which is published by or on behalf of the Government, therefore there is no good reason not to keep this picture and other similar pictures in Wikimedia Commons. I think this case can be closed now. Midori (talk) 03:47, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Well settled that there is no usable FOP in Indonesia. As I noted below, section 12 simply says that a transformation will have its own copyright, without prejudice to (ie without affecting) the existing copyright. That says that this image has a copyright, but must honor the sculptor's copyright. As for the fact that it is woned by the government, the same situation often applies on the USA -- unless the sculptor was a government employee, the sculptor stills owns the copyright even though the work is owned by the government. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:52, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]