Category talk:Brittany

• Oppose move Bretagne, support the merger to Brittany. Everything Bretgane should be Brittany. We should use the common English name and not the French Evrik 15:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support move, for unification of categories related to Bretagne, the official name of the region. In fact there was a bad assumption that Brittanny and Bretagne were different things, but they are equivalent names, both for the historic province and the current French region. This is part of the job for cleaning up the categories... Verdy p 04:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose move Bretagne, support the merger to Brittany. If we do not need to disambiguate between administrative region Bretagne and province Brittany, then it would be consistent to use common name Brittany. For comparison, Category:Normandie was merged to Category:Normandy and then deleted. Man vyi 06:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wrong argument! Normandy is an historic region distinct from the administrative regions that are part of France and British dependencies in the Channel Islands. In contrast, Bretagne and Britanny are not different. For consistency of names of French administrative regions, these should all be in French. English is NOT a regional or national language of Bretagne/Brittany. The name shoudl remain in French, there's no reason to do this change into English, otherwise you would have to change almost all names, and this would conflict with many current links. There's no point in maintaining Britanny. It's up to the English Wikipedia to adapt. Otherwise, we would have other names as well like Breizh (name of the region in Breton). Let's keep just the official language, and the name where the region is the MOST widely known, used and referenced, and it's in French, not English and not even Breton. Verdy p 07:02, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But of course by including Loire-Atlantique in Bretagne we are no longer talking about the administrative region Bretagne, we're talking about historic region Brittany. The analogy with Normandy holds. Man vyi 11:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No!! Brittany and Bretagne ARE BOTH designating the historic province and the current region. This is not the same as Normandy which includes TWO regions of France (Bassse-Normadie and Haute-Normandie), some islands of another region (Chausey is in Ille-et-Vilaine, i.e. Bretagne=Brittany), and the former British Channel Islands (bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey).

You cannot make any distinction between Bretagne and Brittany, they have always been equivalent (one is the French name, one is the English name, but the French name is the only one with legal status; on the opposite, Normandy has no legal status and is international and speaks several languages officially: French, English, Norman, Jersiais, and for this reason, we keep English, because Normandy is officially used in a title of the British Crown, and the French definition of Normandie is quite weak). Verdy p 20:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, en: makes precisely this distinction between en:Bretagne and en:Brittany. Current Bretagne excludes Loire-Atlantique, thereby demonstrating that Brittany is not identical. In any case the distinction is moot, as policy (regrettable though it may be) is that English-language category names have primacy. Corresponding cat: in en: is en:Category:Brittany. (BTW, Chausey is in Manche) Man vyi 20:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm native of Brittany=Bretagne, I can confirm you that both terms are equal, and felt as such. We use only one term in French (or in breton) for the two entities, notably because the modern definition of Bretagne was created artifically after French revolution, but many Bretons still feel that Loire-Atlantique is part of Bretagne and its long history (Bretagne had no formal capital, and its ruling centers of pwower have always been distributed between several cities, with Rennes and Nantes both gaining only after inclusion of the Duchy in the Kingdom of France. Before that there were also other centers of powers: Saint-Brieuc, Guingamp, Redon, Lamballe, Dol-de-Bretagne, ... depending on time of government and parts of the ruling juridications. Even when the region of Pays de la Loire was created (under name "Val de Loire") Nantes was still not its capital, and Rennes was not the only center of governement for the region. Nantes became the capital only after changing once again the borders between the two regions and by including Vendée within the new artifical region of Pays de la Loire (before that, there were two other regions, Vendée was grouped with Poitou and Charentes, and governed since La Rochelle; Nantes became the capital of Pays de la Loire only after the new regions were fixed, by reassinging the capital with the largest city of this region, but historically and culturally, Nantes was always in Britanny=Bretagne). Note the name of the castle of the Duchy in the center of Nantes: it's officially named "Castle of the Dukes of Bretagne". English is then wrong... There's no difference between Bretagne, Breizh or Brittany, as they all refer (in different languages) to the same region, whose official borders has evolved across time, but not its cultural limits. My opinion is that the English Wikipedia was trying to choose two distinct terms artificially. In the French Wikipédia, the two regions (traditional province and administrative region) are both termed "Bretagne": fr:Bretagne is the traditional province; the adminsitrative region names itself as "Région Bretagne" (because the term "Région" appeared only after the creation of the adminsitrative region, before that, it was a "Province" and before the inclusion in France, it was a "Duché"). Verdy p 23:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I strongly agree that the name of the category should remains Brittany which is the only proper name of the country which is called Bretagne in French and Breizh in Breton. Bretagne is in no way an official name for the administrative region. The official name for the region is "Région Bretagne", not Bretagne. The "region Bretagne" doesn't include the whole of Brittany. Some part of it, is included in the administrative region of "Région des Pays-de-la-Loire". Therefore Brittany is the only correct term to refer to the land of Breton people, their distinctive culture, history and language. By the way, I'm breton and I can assure you that everybody around here says Brittany when he speaks English, and so do all the numerous English people who lives here. We never uses the term Bretagne in English. --Fulup 14:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a question of which is the correct English name. Of course in English the name is Brittany, but the policy on commons is to use toponyms below the country level in their current official language as much as possible. So (en)Britanny=(fr)Bretagne=(br)Breizh.

The only need here is the distinction needed between the administrative region and the former province (or historic duchy). Here again French is used in both cases (the only exception currently being for Corsica (only because its name is identical in Corsican and in English).

There is no doubt that the formal name of the administrative region is Région Bretagne in French, which would tranlate in English as Brittany region.

And for the cultural region, or historic province, or historic duchy, it would still be Bretagne in French, Brittany in English, Breizh in breton, but if needed we can use here a suffix to disambiguate the name, for example Bretagne (province) by just considering its last status when it was still united (and ignoring the historic status as an independant Duchy befoe union with the Kingdom of France that made it a province).

In all cases, we don't need to use the English name to create an artificial (but wrong) distinction with the French name. verdy_p (talk) 17:48, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just for info: en:Bretagne has just been moved to en:Brittany (region of France). Man vyi (talk) 14:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• We should be consistent. Evrik (talk) 19:28, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And now en:Brittany (region of France) has been moved to en:Bretagne. Man vyi (talk) 06:07, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And now en:Bretagne has been moved back to en:Brittany (region of France). Man vyi (talk) 07:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Compte-tenu des discussions dans plusieurs sous-catégories de celle-ci (voir par exemple Category talk:Cuisine of Bretagne‎ et Category talk:Culture of Bretagne‎, mais d'autres pourraient exister), il conviendrait de n'utiliser que « Brittany » en lieu et place de « Bretagne » pour le nommage des catégories. Ce serait plus cohérent que la situation actuelle, où le français et l'anglais se mélangent, avec quelquefois un mélange des deux (cf. les deux exemples cités).

Given the discussions in several sub-categories of its (see Category talk:Cuisine of Bretagne‎ and Category talk:Culture of Bretagne‎, but others may exist), we should use only « Brittany » instead of « Bretagne » for naming categories. It would be more consistent than the current situation, where French and English are mixed, with sometimes a mixture of both (see the two examples). - Bzh-99 (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Oppose See above. Like with Bourgogne, whatever you name it, you will always have proper names (villages, institutions, organisations, products ...) that include Bretagne, Breton, ... and that cannot be translated. Or should we translate Breton in Brittons for consistency ? So if you want consistency, you better leave it as is. Moreover, I am pretty much convinced that Bretagne as name is getting better known throughout the world as one can see in the interlanguage links.

In terms of mixing languages, this is the case for all terms for which no English word is existing (or followed). And say for your self, How many real English words are in Category:Entrepreneurs from France and Category:Cuisine of Haute-Normandie ? --Foroa (talk) 06:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Many mistakes in other categories can't be a reason for not-correcting these... - Bzh-99 (talk) 09:36, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Oppose English is definitely not a language of Bretagne (where only French is official). We should use local names for all toponyms, even if they are cultural. See also the language policy universally adopted for proper names in Commons at COM:LP. Commons is definitely not the English Wikipedia, it is multiingual and respects local names. This category will first interest users in France, reading French and contributing to Commons and French Wikipedia, they should not have to look for the exact English orthography of Britanny (1 or 2 n ?) when contributing; categories and galleries should also hve coherent names, d they should also be embarassed by unrelated proper names of people named distinctly between Bretagne or Britanny or Britain (common confusion by French contributors). Note finally that even the EN.WP needs to give the non-English local names in introductions, and has to maintain lots of local redirections or disambiguation pages from local names to translated names (redirections are not possible in categories which only support soft redirects ; note tht most links in Commons are between categories and files are uploaded with keywords in local names used to determine categories; translations to English of local nmes are frequently very ambiguous or with unfixed orthographies, we should void that in Commons, especially when there's an official local name with strong orthographic standards like here. See also why Latin taxons are prefered in Commons for the same reason: much less ambiguities). verdy_p (talk) 02:58, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]