#[mattl]2Yeah I’m planning on bringing a lot of the developer related stuff together with a template that’ll link it all together. Trying to do a hard stop around 6pm each day though.
#[mattl]2At what point can we say a page is no longer a stub? I removed the stub template from Drupal as it’s a fairly fleshed out page.
#[tantek]we don't have any hard & fast rules about stubs, up to the judgment of the editor. for me personally if it feels like a major section is missing / empty / with barely any content that should have at least *something* more substantial then I leave it as a stub. we also have the section-stub template now, so we can use that to mark specific sections as stub-like and remove the overall stub template for the page
#[tantek]also if someone disagrees and wants to do more work on a page, they can add the stub template back according to their judgment
#[mattl]2Would you say the Drupal page is no longer a stub?
#[tantek]!tell [mattl] are there intentions of expanding /.plan/Doom/NextSTEP/Windows to have IndieWeb relevance? We really don't have a community to improve stubs that are just very small subsets of what's already on Wikipedia. Like literally if you can't put the IndieWeb relevance into the dfn when you create a page, at this point don't bother.
#[tantek]We have too many such abandoned stubs already
#tantek.comedited /macOS (+321) "add IndieWeb relevance to definition, software section with IndieWeb relevant software, move SA criticism to its own section, remove red cat lacking IndieWeb relevance" (view diff)
#tantek.comedited /JavaScript (+129) "update the JS definition to be more indieweb relevant and blunt about benefits and drawbacks of current use" (view diff)
#tantek.comedited /Thunderbird () "(-541) move not directly indieweb related subject to be a subsection of a larger topic page, leave redirect behind" (view diff)
#tantek.comdeleted /Seahorse "content was: redirect without IndieWeb-relevance better handled by Wikipedia"
#tantek.comedited /Known (-104) "page logo, move cats to just about SA, drop red link cats, https some sites at least" (view diff)
#[tantek]^ there's very long Firefox OS article on Wikipedia with presumably all that info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS - [mattl] what is the point of replicating that work here that it is very unlikely we will maintain better than Wikipedia?
#[mattl]2The page was already there. I’m adding a link to the only part of that stuff that’s still being used.
#pcarrierI guess maybe the default attitude toward pages that aren't closely related to indieweb should be to lose them?
#[mattl]2I may just start removing pages that aren’t relevant. It would be nice to have less pages with a few sentences on them.
#[tantek]Right, unless there's at least something directly relevant already on the wiki (somewhere) that you can link to / incorporate or YOU yourself are using that thing in an IndieWeb relevant way
#[tantek]pcarrier it's like I said above, if you can't come up with a dfn that has indieweb relevance, at least don't create the page or expand it
#[tantek]Rather if you find such a page and want to expand it, the FIRST thing you should do is find/add indieweb relevance to the dfn, not other Wikipedia-like factoids
#[tantek][mattl] it's ok to have pages with one or a few sentences as long as there is clear indieweb relevance
#[tantek]switching to here for wiki editing/enhancement talk
#[tantek][mattl] sometimes in places on pages I've put (needs screenshot) which now that I think about it maybe should be a template
#[tantek]even just listing features of a silo etc and adding (needs screenshot) can be helpful, especially for folks that would like to take screenshots and add them but are not sure which are needded
barnaby joined the channel
#[mattl]2Sounds good. We can use a (needs screenshot) template so there’s some category of low hanging wiki tasks
#[tantek]could probably fork (copy paste contents of) /Template:warning to start and maybe stick a 🖼️ emoji at the start to help call them out
#LoqiAnything directly related to people with their own websites, such as technologies and services used, design and UX, formats and protocols, as well as events or podcasts with IndieWeb talks or content are relevant to the IndieWeb wiki https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb_relevance
#LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "warning" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "warning is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#aaronpkCan we settle on the new off the record channel? I would rather do all the chat infra changes at the same time to reduce context switching overhead
#[tantek]aaronpk, "all the chat infra changes" is a lot and a bit completist (perfect enemy of good), do you think we can scale that back to a logical "chunk" of new chat infra changes instead of all?
#Loqi⚠ A warning in the context of the IndieWeb could be a content warning (AKA trigger warning) on a post or link, or the warning template used for placing a warning on a page or section as part of wikifying https://indieweb.org/warning
#[tantek]GWG, I'd warn against that unless you know you can easily change JetBlue flights without incurring (too much of) a fee
#GWG[tantek]: Cancel for full credit anytime. And I used them to San Diego last few times
#[tantek]aaronpk, can I ask you to respond to this poll in the meantime? https://indieweb.org/discuss#Avoid_Tech_Rants_Poll (and anyone else who has an opinion on this too, I think [snarfed] does at least, and I bet [mattl] [schmarty] gRegor do too 🙂 )
#tantek.comedited /discuss (+435) "/* events meetups channel */ update my votes. changed my mind and top pref is now #events" (view diff)
#[tantek]aaronpk, after allowing ^ a bit of time to contribute to that naming poll, I think we will be ready to cluster both the 'off the record' and the '(live) events/meetups' channel naming/creation. those are the two biggest use-cases / "pain" sources for chat channels right now, the other proposals are less urgent / necessary (maker channel, link sharing, protocols talk)
#[snarfed][tantek] hell yes! strongly agree with avoid tech rants. I've heard this called (and myself called it) "tech politics" before, which is probably complicated terminology at best, but also felt like it captured it well
#gRegorYeah, I took aaronpk's comment to mean deciding on OTR channel and adding event channel as one change.
#[tantek][snarfed] I want to see if we can thread the difference between discouraging unproductive rants, and encouraging actual beneficial discussions of technology and values/principles/impacts on humans which is fundamentally "political" and "politics"
#[tantek][snarfed] to be even more direct, by very nature of the fact that we have /principles which are not "purely technical", we (IndieWeb) are political. we can't escape it
#[tantek]aaronpk, new channel summary for now: indieweb-cafe is leading with +9 (closest 2nd is indieweb-offtherecord at +4), and indieweb-events is leading with +6 (closest 2nd is indieweb-live with +4)
#[tantek]capjamesg[d] in the past we have done so at annual Organizers meetups where we see if there is (1) a clear leading option, (2) absence of any (serious?) objections
#[tantek]but that was 5y+ ago 😢 so now we have to wing it a bit and frankly try to establish a similar decision in public chat (barring a better alternative)
#[tantek]alright, is anyone else here going to Fediforum this week? https://fediforum.org/2024-09/ I see [manton] and [timothy_chambe] there. Didn't see [snarfed] signed up (yet) though.
#LoqiFediForum is a semi-annual conference for people working on the "fediverse", with several IndieWeb community members participating and some leading talks on IndieWeb-relevant topics. The first conference was held on March 29-30th, 2023 https://indieweb.org/FediForum
#aaronpkRight I just mean if I'm gonna go edit these config files and discord/slack and munge IRC channel permissions I want to do that just once for the next while
#pcarriercatgirlin_space0[d] automatically remove messages older than X for the successor to #indieweb-chat
#aaronpkOh and yes agreed on finalizing just those two new channel use cases for now
#[tantek]alright last call for any objections (or votes rallying for alternatives) for new channels for: 'off the record' of "indieweb-cafe" and '(live) events/meetup' of "indieweb-events". Otherwise if they’re still clearly leading and no objections by say tomorrow noon Pacific Time, let's make it so.
#[mattl]2I do just think we should call it cybercafe purely for vibes
#[tantek]that can be our informal name for it in speaking 😄
#[mattl]2I’m excited for HWC Eastern tomorrow. I was going to be at the office for it but I’ve sprained my ankle so I’m at home.
#[0x3b0b]What do we typically do about broken links? I was thinking of updating the "microblog.pub" page to mention the community fork later, and was wondering whether I should do something about the main website and documentation links which are currently dead.