User talk:Kiril Simeonovski

Welcome to Wikidata, Kiril Simeonovski!

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If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Regards, --Jitrixis (talk | support my candidacy) 13:36, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Kiril Simeonovski, roughly a year ago you have created a couple of items which still have no claims at all. Could you please try to add at least some basic ones? You can find the affected items in this Petscan result. In case of questions feel free to ask for help. Regards and thanks for your efforts at Wikidata, MisterSynergy (talk) 20:30, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Kiril Simeonovski, you added a lot of ethnic group (P172) to villages items like Robovo (Q3135500) in North Macedonia (Q221) but according to the documentation on the discussion site of ethnic group (P172), this property is applicable for person (Q215627), fictional character (Q95074), ethnic community (Q28790362), diaspora (Q133004),family (Q8436), cultural festival (Q64272108) and legendary figure (Q13002315) but not for village (Q532). I guess it would be more appropriate to enter the demographic data of components of a population under the population (P1082)- property, although discussion P172 shows that there is still no consens how to achieve this. --Mfilot (talk) 17:04, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Mfilot. To briefly introduce you, this import is part of my efforts to activate the WikiProject Macedonia and comes after several imports of other data about the country. I spent some time to analyse two options before importing the data from the past censuses.

• Option 1: use population (P1082) for total population and all demographic categories (ethnic groups, sex and age).
• Option 2: use population (P1082) for total population and a different property for every demographic category.

The problem with Option 1 is that population (P1082) might become overloaded with qualifiers describing different attributes, so I decided to go with Option 2 mostly for the sake of clarity. Additionally, female population (P1539) and male population (P1540) exist as properties but can not be used as qualifiers, which also stands in favour of Option 2. With regards to ethnic group (P172) for listing ethnic groups, my query about this property returned mostly non-geographic but also a few geographic items (including Australia (Q408)). I could request creating a new property that will be used for census data only but it should bear the same name. Anyway, my plan is to go with a similar request about the age structure because there is currently no suitable property that can be used. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:36, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear you have thought of how to import the data and made up a plan. Nevertheless I think the wikidata datamodel is not yet ready for data of that granularity. For example for item {Q|Q3135500} for entry Macedonians (Q2436423) of ethnic group (P172) there a six entries for population (P1082) but seven entries for point in time (P585). Form the current data you cannot tell which are the correct pairs. I find it rather confusing. --Mfilot (talk) 19:10, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know. The problem is that QuickStatements can not insert a single qualifier multiple times (But it is possible to do it manually!). I have already identified all settlements with overlapping values across census years that need to be re-worked. I just need to check if the problem is only visual, while the repeated values are properly matched, or there is really a problem of improper matching. In any case, my plan is to request improvements of the tool or development of other solutions that should lay a firm basis for future imports of similar type. Best.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:30, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply and all your effort for bringing data to wikidata. --Mfilot (talk) 21:53, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kiril, I noticed that of the 16,765 ethnic groups, ~14,000 have no labels and based on my spot checking, appear to have been added by you (see https://w.wiki/3AXp). Furthermore, these seem to be names of villages in Macedonia, rather than ethnic groups? Each of these only have one instance, which is the village itself. I note the earlier discussion on this talk page, but it seems like we have two separate problems here: 1) there are 14,000 items with no labels 2) these items are not ethnic groups, in the sense that this property is generally intended. I'm not an expert in the demographics of Macedonia, but from what I understand from en:Demographics of North Macedonia it seems like there are several dozen ethnicities, rather than ~14,000.Theredproject (talk) 15:16, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Theredproject Thanks for reaching out regarding this. The items that you're referring to are names of ethnic groups in settlements (8 ethnicity categories x ~1,750 settlements ≈ 14,000 such items) and the main purpose of creating them was to deal with the inability to import and properly store the demographic data from past censuses. I first tried to add all historical data in the items on the settlements using ethnic group (P172) but then I realised that QuickStatements can not insert a single qualifier multiple times and it bundles all non-repetitive values under one qualifier. In many cases, а real problem occurred with the repetitive values on population, which caused fewer values under the qualifier population (P1082) than the qualifier point in time (P585). For instance, this is how it looked when all historical demographic data were stored in the item on Psača (Q3133689). If you go to ethnic group (P172) and find the value Serbs (Q127885), there are five values under the qualifier population (P1082) and seven values under the qualifier point in time (P585), which makes it impossible to query for the figure on the number of Serbs (Q127885) in specific census year. After spending some time looking for a solution to this problem, I've accidentally stumbled upon this comment, which literally solves the problem and I therefore started creating these items. If you visit Psača (Q3133689) and go to ethnic group (P172) in the current version, you can notice that data have been replaced with the newly created items on ethnic groups in the settlement and the historical data for Serbs (Q127885) in that settlement are neatly stored in Q99031103. I've implemented the same procedure to add the electoral data on the distribution of votes according to political parties from the last few elections (see Macedonian parliamentary election (2020) at polling station no 1877 (Q101878104)).

I know that having ethnic group (Q41710) as a value for instance of (P31) in all these items is a bit confusing and makes no sense when querying for ethnic group (Q41710) but I couldn't find a better way to describe what all these items are instances of (note that items such as Chinese Americans (Q1146100) do also have ethnic group (Q41710) as a value for instance of (P31)). I remember to have added Macedonian labels in all these items and will work on adding English ones just to make it clearer. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kiril Simeonovski yes, as you said, this "is a bit confusing and makes no sense" !! I'm seeing three interrelated problems:

1. You created 14,000 ethnic group items, when as far as I understand, this should have been done with the existing 8 ethnic group (P172) items you are using, and the 1,750 village (Q532) items in your geographic focus.
2. You did so based on the plan of a what appears to be a failed property proposal for subpopulation
3. None of these have labels. You said you remembered adding Macedonian labels (which would have been totally good) but in fact none of them have any labels.

I understand you are attempting to do something in good faith, but your effort to solve this very specific problem has created problems elsewhere by flooding the ethnic group data with an absurd amount of useless noise. I don't know how to resolve this (I don't have the technical or administrative knowledge). Given that this involves a variety of properties P172, Q532, population (P1082), and the failed subpopulation proposal, I think that bringing this to Project chat is the best way to figure out how to move forward. Theredproject (talk) 15:57, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Theredproject The easiest way to resolve this is by creating an item for statistical purposes similar to ethnic group (Q41710) that will be used as a value for instance of (P31). After adding it, the querying for ethnic group (Q41710) will no longer yield all these items as results. That's fairly simple to do and it can be done in one day. And while all these items don't have English-language labels and descriptions, they do have in Macedonian (note that the label of Q99003504 is "Македонци во Софилари" and its description is "народност во Софилари"). If you've found some items without these, please send me links so that I can add them. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:09, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Theredproject I've replaced ethnic group (Q41710) with ethnic group by settlement in Macedonia (Q106474968) in all items so now the querying will not render results including tons of overspecific ethnicity items. Best.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Can I have the reference where you got the Property:P1082 of 2021? Thanks, Euro know (talk) 12:58, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Euro know Sure. The data from the 2021 census were published by the State Statistical Office of North Macedonia (Q12906246). You can get the figures for the population in all settlements from their database here. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:18, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]