Talk:Pseudoscience

I recently got a notification on my talkpage when I edited this article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lonestar-physicist#Introduction_to_contentious_topics

So is UFO considered Pseudoscience and fringe science? if so why is US government considers it a national security threat and scientifically analyzing it?

this is from AARO website published today:

https://www.aaro.mil/

"Our team of experts is leading the U.S. government’s efforts to address Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP) using a rigorous scientific framework and a data-driven approach. Since its establishment in July 2022, AARO has taken important steps to improve data collection, standardize reporting requirements, and mitigate the potential threats to safety and security posed by UAP."

https://defensescoop.com/2023/08/30/hicks-takes-direct-oversight-of-pentagons-uap-office-new-reporting-website-to-be-launched/?utm_content=262515320&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-1450183022616121344

from the article: "When asked why she went all-in on prioritizing AARO as an element under her purview, particularly now, Hicks told DefenseScoop: “The department takes UAP seriously because UAP are a potential national security threat. They also pose safety risks, and potentially endanger our personnel, our equipment and bases, and the security of our operations. DOD is focusing through AARO to better understand UAP, and improve our capabilities to detect, collect, analyze and eventually resolve UAP to prevent strategic surprise and protect our forces, our operations, and our nation.” Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:08, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Governments get mislead by pseudoscience all the time. See for example National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health or the ADE 651. - MrOllie (talk) 17:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

well that's such a huge false equivalency. So how do you determine when government is being misled or not? And what makes you think you're more intelligent than DOD scientists like Sean Kirkpatrick? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:25, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

We determine it by following what the best available reliable sources say (this is how we determine more or less everything on Wikipedia). They're pretty clear. Ufology is a field dominated by fringe/pseudoscience. MrOllie (talk) 17:40, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

there's fringe/pseudoscience in every field, such as vaccinology. is Vaccinology considered fringe/pseudoscience? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

We don't have reliable sources that say so, so no. MrOllie (talk) 18:08, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

So in your opinion editors are supposed to not use their brain, ignore facts and delegate their thinking to so called reliable sources? Great idea! Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:09, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes, that's exactly what Wikipedia does, and always has done, because it roots our articles in fact rather than opinion. There is a big difference between fields that have some minor fringe/pseudoscientific theories attached to them, and fields (like UFOlogy) that are effectively completely fringe. And yes, that's what reliable sources say. Black Kite (talk) 18:13, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

And what makes you think you're more intelligent Intelligence does not come into it either. Your whole approach is totally fakakte. Pseudoscience, that is, a thing that pretends to be science, does not stop being pseudoscience just because someone falls for the pretense. That would be like throwing the theories of relativity out of the window just because of one measurement of a speed value above c. Mistakes happen. --Hob Gadling (talk) 18:14, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Intelligence is also irrelevant to this then? lol. that's what I meant about some people here expecting editors to not use their brains.

Aren't you just appealing to authority and pretending that your approach is science and fact based? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I ask everyone to not make this personal and stay on subject. This is all to improve the article. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes. Wikipedia is based on appeals to authority, by design. That is the essence of our core policies, WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:RS, etc. MrOllie (talk) 18:48, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

appeal to authority is a fallacy according to wikipedia

An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam (argument against shame), is a form of fallacy when the opinion of a non-expert on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument or when the authority is used to say that the claim is true, as authorities can be wrong

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Lonestar-physicist (talk) 19:06, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

is a form of fallacy when the opinion of a non-expert - This is why we rely on experts (that is, reliable sources as laid out in WP:RS). MrOllie (talk) 19:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

you don't make any sense man. read what you write first. you don't know what you're talking about. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 19:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Right back at you, my man. MrOllie (talk) 19:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

if you can't act as a grown up, please go play somewhere else. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 19:20, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

You can always tell an argument is going well when the personal attacks come out. You're right, though, we've accomplished everything this thread is going to accomplish - you now know that per Wikipedia's policies, this article can and will continue to identify Ufology as a pseudoscience. Feel free to take the last word if you require it. MrOllie (talk) 19:23, 31 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

UFO should classified as scientific speculative, rather than pseudoscience or fringe science. There are many evidence of UFO, but it often classified as anecdotal evidence rather than a definitive evidence or scientific evidence. We cannot 100% confirm UFO exists, but there are many UFO reports. Some are hoax, some are illusion, some are misclassified, or some may be truth but we cannot 100% sure, and there are no universal agreed way that we can use scientific method to verify these report are definitely or most likely are truth. Cloud29371 (talk) 07:40, 5 August 2024 (UTC)Reply