Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals

Hello, everyone. There is a script that might help with easily and quickly creating (or updating) date and month category pages. This will let you know which pages are being created before they are created, so you can identify any mistakes. To use the script, add the following code to your common.js page:

mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/QuickCat.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');

After that, you also need to use the following code somewhere on your subpage to invoke the operation. Or just visit this subpage after installing the script, to access the form.

<div id="category-create-form"></div>

Thank you! Asked42 (talk) 16:57, 6 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

It can also be used for wikinews date and month list pages. Asked42 (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I am trying to understand how to make newswriting and reviewing easier. I've created a few proposals, which are noted in subsections below (split into separate sections to make it easier to reply individually).

(P.S. Your help with reviewing and editing in Newsroom would be appreciated now.)

Hope to hear what you think. Special ping to @Acagastya, @Heavy Water as we communicated about a part of the above elsewhere recently. However, input is welcome from everyone, of course.

Thanks and regards, Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• About collaboration, it was mostly happening in talk pages, so a busy reviewer cannot get a recap of recent discussions unless he or she checks recent drafts and each of their talk pages. I see it as a bit of a problem as it is time consuming. --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I think the talk page is a great place for collaboration of a given article to happen. It's centrally located to the article and is "attached" to it making it easy to find for editors, reviewers, and readers of articles who may not be wikimedians. One problem that arises from that is when an article doesn't get published but it has important conversations happening in its talk page, which gets deleted if it isn't published. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 12:50, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• IRC live chat could help a lot, Acagastya's bot announces article status changes there. My nick is "gry" and I am in UTC+10. --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  A challenge with IRC is that the conversation isn't kept as a record, where here in non-article talk pages and other pages, it is recorded. We need to ensure that our use of IRC as a communication channel doesn't exacerbate the problem I see in institutional knowledge; where a few people have exclusive knowledge on how the project works. That goes against the spirit of open knowledge and open collaboration.

  One of my previous employers was a large architecture firm. They had an entire department dedicated to Knowledge management. I think an eventual focus for en.WN, once we are able to routinely publish articles again, is to improve our knowledge management. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 12:55, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• As a rare example, loads of changes happened this year. dropped freshness standard. added pre reviews. requested help from stewards. other points here and there. i missed them all for half a year because my email was misconfigured. despite having a note on my user page that i use irc live chat a lot. I mean it is my fault but I am wondering, for those who do not edit the wiki every day and have too many emails, what is the best way to stay in the loop of what is happening? --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  @Gryllida freshness change wasn't this year. And the help requested was from the global sysops. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 00:49, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  "Last year, even better"? Yes, global sysops, thanks for clarifying it. Gryllida (talk) 01:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I personally think the best way to stay informed on the project is to stay engaged, at least at a minimum level. Log in and check wiki messages, watch lists, water cooler pages, etc. Spend a bit of time just reading what's happening or what is not happening that should be. If one can't engage at a minimum level by reading what is going on, they don't have the time to contribute; and that isn't a judgement against people without the time, we are all volunteers. But at a certain point, if one wants to remain informed in en.WN, they need to log in and catch up. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• How to get on wiki Notifications as push notifications in Android? --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • mw:Topic:Ybc3xn63mxmx7v0t --Gryllida (talk) 23:05, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• For on-wiki communication might just pick one of the existing water coolers and use it for reviewers collaboration. I dunno which, but I will pick one and maybe if reviewers like then everyone can add it to watchlist to make things easier. It would get spammed with one section for each new draft and reviewers can leave notes like "I am taking this" or "Not me, sorry" and then key issues with the story. This would make stuff more challenging as the reviewers would need to read that place in addition to article talk page. Aftera point this could also get noisy on that page, though probably not for a few months. --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I don't see how this is better than doing the same on the article's talk page, where it is logically attached to the article. I like the idea of reviewers 'calling the ball' and/or collaborating on a review. But in my time here, I haven't known of a case where we had a problem of too many reviewers or reviewers having a hard time collaborating on a review. I could be missing something due to their use of IRC, wiki messages, outside email, etc, but I haven't seen that to be a problem to solve. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• For draft writing I find on-wiki editing problematic simply because I have to wait for the editor to load. I created a .html file on my computer which saves my draft in localStorage in browser. Even if I have a .docx file open or a notepad open then I can have editable text in front of me and save after each substantial edit without waiting to go into read only mode and then back again. On wiki I resolved this by having a "save and keep editing" button in the editor but with ui changes it stopped working around 3 years ago. Is this a problem for other contributors writing drafts? Is there a good solution? --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I will often have a full, first draft created off-wiki and then cut/paste into wiki to complete. I then finish the article using source editor so that there is a bit of editing history of me linking to sister projects, related articles, infoboxes, categories, etc.

  Since I use source editor, I use the preview a lot. I also tend to follow the Wikipedia recommendation of small edits saved over time so they can be easily tracked and easily undone. I think this is especially important for the review process so that authors can better understand what was changed and why during the review. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:11, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

• For reviewing this is just hard. I can only motivate myself by reviewing stories local to my area or within an interesting topic. My user page has a link to WelcomeABit software that can categorize users into their preferred topic areas and deliver notifications to them when a new draft is created within their interest. Would you like to sign up to this? What improvements would you suggest - maybe some other place where to deliver notifications, irc, email, on wiki, where else? --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  @Gryllida the issue with reviewing by specialisation is that there is 1 semi-active reviewer every few months around here, thats it. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 12:24, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I know. I am trying to get more than one person involved in being notified, hoping that will eventually improve this situation. Gryllida (talk) 18:45, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  In addition to MDW's point above, there are also so few articles being generated right now, that it is easy to stay on top of the review queue. I don't recall ever seeing double-digits in the review queue. So personally, I don't need notified if an article in my favorite category is up for review. I can quickly scan the headlines and know. This might be useful if the project were busy. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  @Michael.C.Wright there were double digits review queues when Cromium was active reviewing in the beginning of June. This is because (at least for me) I'm more likely to contribute if its more likely my contribution wont be thrown in the trash, so I think the review queue might grow as the number of active reviewers does. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 15:39, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Hi @Me Da Wikipedian would you like to write something in one of the topic areas listed on my user page and see how well I will review it. I am testing the hypothesis that in my topic area it is easier for me to review. Gryllida (talk) 02:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

  @Gryllida your topics aren't on your user page (at least I didn't see them) but I'm pretty sure you said it was Australia, Science and Technology, right? Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 10:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Yup Gryllida (talk) 11:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

• Maybe have a news writing theme for each fortnight e.g. "weather in Australia" or "technology in Japan" etc? --Gryllida (talk) 11:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  I think we need a reviewing theme. ツ I'm being snarky, but truthful. Our immediate and existential problem is a lack of published articles. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Hi @Michael.C.Wright, would you like to reach out to all reviewers and ask them what their reviewing theme could be? I'm happy to write to suit their preferences. I have listed a couple possible themes on my user page in which I can possibly review easier than in others. I'm now writing the page User:Gryllida/reviewing-themes as a test.

  Ideally as a side note, this should also include theme interests of copyediting contributors who are not reviewers. Gryllida (talk) 02:26, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

  @Gryllida Look around here. There was just no articles for 2 months and this isnt the first time thats happened (last occured from Jan-March). How about our current theme is actually being a news site for a change. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 10:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

About engagement of readers on-wiki. What if there was a widget, which is full screen width, a textbox with a 'write' -- that'd go to headline, and take the users to new article writing page? Currently writing a story requires at least two clicks and one scrolling down, and knowing where to look.

The timeless skin ( https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&skin=timeless ) provides full screen width text box for search. A little JS could be written to add a pencil button near search button, which would take the user inputted text as headline, and open the article writing page (https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=Template%3ANew_page&editintro=Template%3ANew_article_intro&title=hi&create=Create+page).

Hence I propose

Option 1

• add javascript which adds the pencil icon
• change skin to timeless for all users who didn't edit their skin preference

Option 2

• edit sidebar and add a box in it for writing a new article (a text box with a pencil) if software allows, if it does not, then do the same anyway using JavaScript
• or a wiki extension, which will take weeks to approve but will behave more stable, because JavaScript is annoying

Option 3

• add the text box and pencil button somewhere else in the page where I didn't think of it before

The target audience is visitors of main page and people who read articles. Gryllida (talk) 00:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I think we need to hammer the basics first; write an article, review an article, publish an article. Once we are able to have an article a day published, then we can consider other widgets. We don't even have the manpower right now to effectively upgrade our copyright license, a project we have consensus on pursuing. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:17, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I would like to go over last year and tag users' key topics (article categories). If I know username I can see their deleted contributions. But I don't know usernames - can I view RecentDeletedChanges somewhere?

My objective is to compile a list of users who made new articles (not spam) and next to each user list top 3 categories their drafts belonged to, including both deleted and published

Then I could message them all and offer that they are notified of new drafts in their top Categories, to involve them in copyediting

I may require your approval in that this is a good idea, and a pointer to where RecentDeletedChanges is (hope it goes more than a month back)

Thanks, Gryllida (talk) 12:21, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I think this could eventually be useful, but right now we need articles published to generate that data. I think a better use of our manpower is a laser-focus on solving the inactive reviewer problem. If we have too few active reviewers because of an overly-strict review process, let's focus on fixing that. If we have too few active reviewers because of an overly-strict or slow promotion process, let's focus on fixing that. —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 13:22, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am still trying to understand what's causing the issue, either I am not familiar with the article topic and it is too hard to verify it properly, or it is something else. I asked someone above to volunteer writing news local to my area. You could do that too if you wanted too, if you like. If it works, then the same experiment can be repeated with another reviewer (I and perhaps a few other authors could write a few stories within the other reviewer's knowledge area and see how that goes). If it does not work, I will need to figure out what makes reviewing so challenging and how it can be made easier. Gryllida (talk) 11:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'm proposing to

Option 1: create {{ArticlesInNeedOfHelp}} template with the following contents:

It is 21:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC) now. Please help revise the following drafts:

• Example article headline (Event: September 5, 2024)
• Example 2 (Event: September 5, 2024; Revision requested: 15:43, 7 September 2024 (UTC) )
• 4 killed in Apalachee High School shooting (Event: September 5; Revision requested: 02:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC))

This template could be shown as part of site notice at the top of each page, at least to the logged in users. Ideally I want users to keep seeing the banner if its content changed, but also be able to opt out of seeing it entirely.

I anticipate this could be one way to get more users to copyedit the drafts more quickly to address the reviewers' feedback.

On the troublesome side, someone'd need to maintain this template, adding new drafts to it and timestamps of reviewer feedbacks, and remove entries which are over 5 days old from date of event.

Also it could be simply cached and out of date, but I hope editing a template makes it auto-expire cache in all target locations.

Another version: option 2

There are 5 drafts in need of revision, please help by revising these submissions.

Where the 5 drafts links to a page with the content listed above.

Another version: option 3

There are 5 drafts in need of revision, please help by revising these submissions.

Where 5 drafts links to Newsroom, and number 5 is automatically calculated as total number of 'Drafts never reviewed' and 'Drafts up for review' and 'Drafts which were not readied' (whatever corresponding categories are).

Please let me know what you think. Gryllida (talk) 21:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The page [1] has a button that takes to a random article with issues. Issues are marked in a banner. Could something like this be implemented here and put in site notice? Maybe "random draft which is developing which is with event not more than 3 days old"? Having such button could be more appealing to some users than clicking newsroom link , familiarizing with its layout, and then clicking a headline. Just a thought. (other thing they do well is monthly cleanup drives) Gryllida (talk) 13:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

The current social bookmarks template is outdated, and since it is one of the most widely used templates, I am proposing a new version for social bookmarks. There is currently an editprotected request open for this. Asked42 (talk) 17:39, 28 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks I will check it out. Gryllida (talk) 12:07, 4 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

To make news writing more fun I am suggesting to try to add OR to every submitted story. (They don't respond every time anyway.) Interview someone or request information from original sources which was not published elsewhere. This could make the Wikinews reports more unique and freshness issues would be less severe. Just a thought. Gryllida (talk) 11:09, 4 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Maybe the phrase is "more exclusive" 🙂 Gryllida (talk) 12:07, 4 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Acagastya I am proposing that the enwnbot sends messages not only to IRC but also using MassMessage to User:Gryllida/Notifications/New/Develop (new articles added to develop cat) and User:Gryllida/Notifications/New/Review (new articles added to review cat). And same for User:Gryllida/Notifications/New/Publish. Could you possibly code this, please? Gryllida (talk) 08:49, 6 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

The program needs to check every min for new category members and if found, send a massmessage using mediawiki api. Anyone's help is very welcome. Gryllida (talk) 09:06, 6 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I have proposed a guideline for AI-generated content: The use of AI in generating content (WN:AI).

Maybe it should be a policy. Maybe we should forbid it altogether. What are your thoughts? —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 16:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

For what it's worth, see similar policies from d:Q116214731, b:en:Wikibooks:Artificial Intelligence, w:en:Wikipedia:Using neural network language models on Wikipedia, and m:Using neural network language models. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I think that we can improve the article-development and review processes by using markup to clearly and effectively communicate between author and reviewer before publishing an article.

I have created {{Verify}} as a first attempt. From the documentation: "It can be used to indicate the source of a specific statement or it can be used to indicate that a statement needs a source."

I propose that if the template is useful, we consider requiring its use by authors to facilitate/speed-up the review process. What are your thoughts? —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 16:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)Reply