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@Flounder fillet:, it would take a lot of time to go through all the sources. This article was created this year, yet some sources are showing retrieval date of 2019. Do you think this might be better off AfD'd under WP:TNT? It might be just quicker to re-build from scratch than to try to scrutinize every source and verify. Graywalls (talk) 03:28, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong retrieval dates are evidence that the cite templates were generated by AI, and thus content was almost certainly inserted with no regard for whether sources support it. Blow it up. Flounder fillet (talk) 03:37, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The article appears to be a translation from another language version, consistent with Wikipedia’s guidelines on cross-language contributions. The retrieval dates correspond to the original language sources, which is standard practice in translations. The content is factual, well-sourced, and enhances coverage on this topic. 2A02:C7C:EC31:4200:5935:4048:17E1:63F9 (talk) 10:10, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Theodor-Fliedner-Gymnasium → Theodor Fliedner Gymnasium – Per English language names (see WP:ENGLISHTITLE). In German the name, as a compound noun (CN), is treated as a single lexical unit and run together giving us words such as der Zungenbrecher for the English equivalent "the tongue twister". In German Wikipedia the article for this school is written with dashes to separate out the parts of the CN, which is usual practice where the compound noun contains a name but is a single lexical unit - a CN. English does not treat compound nouns this way. As for "tongue twister," the nouns can be split into a noun phrase. So the correct English name for this school is Theodor Fliedner Gymnasium. High school could replace Gymnasium, but as a Gymnasium is a specific type of high school, I suggest we keep it. Nevertheless there are sources actually calling it Theodor Fliedner high school in English. E.g. [1] I bold moved to the English name, as I had said should be done in the recent deletion discussion [2], and it was reverted.[3] Thus this move discussion. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We do not rename articles with foreign names for the sake of it. Absolutely no evidence that this school is commonly known by a pseudo-English name. Especially since "gymnasium" is not used in English to mean a school (and no, I most certainly do not think we should replace it with an inaccurate pseudo-translation - high school means different things in different countries). The proposal basically just seems to be saying we should remove the hyphens because English wouldn't hyphenate an English name. So what? It isn't an English name. This sort of renaming just cheapens Wikipedia and makes English-speakers look ignorant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:ENGLISHTITLE, article titles are indeed written in English. This is Wikipedia policy. What is the English title? Well we don't have many English language sources (as shown at AfD) for this school, but there is one excellent one. In Wolfgang Flür's book, he writes, "I would travel on Line 11 to Kaiserswerth to pick up Brigitte, my first girlfriend, from the Theodor Fliedner Gymnasium" (Flür, 2015:§46). That is a professionally translated and edited book that does exactly what I proposed: removing the German orthography, but retaining Gymnasium.
Oppose per WP:UE (second paragraph): "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject". The only English-language sources that have been offered so far are one that calls it Theodor Fliedner High School (the first external link in this RM) and another that calls it the Theodor Fliedner Gymansium, unhyphenated (the Kraftwerk book). It doesn't sound as if there are going to be many more.
The final paragraph of WP:UE undercuts the second a little with "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage." But it continues, "If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." Given the issue with the word "Gymnasium", a "translation" into English orthography won't ease comprehension for non–German-speakers. Ham II (talk) 17:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
