Talk:Marin County, California

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Marin County, California article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

California: San Francisco Bay Area High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by San Francisco Bay Area task force (assessed as Top-importance). United States: U.S. counties Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. counties (assessed as High-importance).

Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry?
The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help.

Edits by this person are suspect. Enters a lot of unsatisfied links (20 in Contra Costa County, California) bad spelling, bad naming, nonexistent locations, bad link syntax, etc. Unclear if vandalism or simply not capable, See article talk for CoCoCo and this user's history. I cleaned up for CoCoCo but reverted all in Alameda County, California -- Leonard G. 05:36, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

No significant part of Marin County suffers from "overcrowding" (incredible!) and "poverty" -- this is all a fabrication on the part of a bitter editor who wishes to disparage the county. This intent is reflecting in the language employed to describe this supposed marginalized subsection of society. Although there are certainly social problems in Marin, none necessitate such a lengthy addition to the introduction of the entry -- perhaps in the demographics section one could note that the hyperaffluent regions of the county tend to be concentrated in its southern portion and that the wealth is certainly not uniformly distributed throughout.

I agree - even the Canal district in San Rafael or Marin City are hardly overcrowded. --googuse 01:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am the "bitter editor"... and a Marin native who is usually regarded as tilted "pro-Marin" on everything. I'll give you both a why and factual backup for my edit.

• The numbers: Belvedere, Kentfield, Ross, Tiburon and the parts of the other towns where there are rich enclaves are just that... smaller enclaves. The middle class and people below the poverty line in the county are the great majority compared to the rich. But one $5,000,000 a year income moves the average compared to a lot of people where two incomes total $72K a year.
• Re crowding and poverty: The San Rafael Canal area has lots of cases of three and four families living in places designed for one or two. (Call the Canal Community Alliance if you want confirmation.) And the Canal area was historically the highest density housing in the city. Drive down Bellam or Anderson and look at all the guys standing there waiting for work... it's an eye-opener. Marin City is different: it's public housing but the density per square mile is still quite high, and the average income is very low, with many people below the poverty line (hence my use of the word poverty). This is also true in the Canal.
• The why: Saying that Marin is uniformly rich and well-heeled (apart from accuracy issues raised above) makes both the people below the poverty line and the middle-class groups in the county disappear, despite their numerical majority. If we lead the world to believe that the whole county is a rich enclave we'll never get the public and government support to address the issues of middle class and low-income people despite their numerical majority.

So if you guys think my phrasing is wrong, how would you put it if you had to go to Pickleweed Community Center and stand up in front fo the crowd and defend your wording? That should be a good standard for the wikipedia: if it sounds accurate to the people who live here and the numbers back it up then it's encyclopedic. Coll7 02:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have heard no counter-proposals. In the meantime, I found the following text from a government grant proposal describing those neighborhoods:

"The communities to be served are Marin City (a section of the City of Sausalito) and the “Canal District” of the City of San Rafael, California. These communities are distinct in Marin County as they are populated almost exclusively by low-income persons of color as opposed to the surrounding population of Marin County, which is largely Caucasian and affluent. Marin City has a population of 2,500 and is geographically isolated from the other parts of Marin County with only one major artery for entrance and exit. The population is ethnically diverse with large East Asian, Hispanic, and African American populations. The population in the “Canal District” is largely Hispanic, with many households residing in over-crowded apartment units. The social issues that exist in Marin City are an increasing sense of isolation and dislocation as the community experiences an ever-widening economic gap between newer homeowners and the public housing residents."

BTW, many Marinites do not realize that the apartment buildings highest on the hill in Marin City above Best Buy and Ross Dept. Store are in fact public housing, with severely impacted families living in close quarters. From the freeway it looks like an extension of the nice neighborhoods by the shopping center.

I will take a crack at a new draft version of the wording. See what you think, but please debate here rather than just reverting. Coll7 21:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Different anon users keep trying to edit all mention of poverty out of this article. I don't know if this is being done due to real estate agents trying to sugar-coat reality, but if someone wants to change that issue after all the information exchange above they have to discuss it on this talk page first. Also, please always sign your posts. Coll7 01:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The economic disparity referenced in the introduction is also mentioned in other parts of the article; in any case, such disparity is NOT unique to Marin County and has absolutely no place in the first paragraph (which should highlight Marin's postiive attributes). The fact that so many people have disputed the placement of these comments should render it clear to you that the changes instituted are unnecessary, if not inaccurate.

First of all, please use four tildes (the ~ sign) to sign your posts. Secondly, the purpose of the opening paragraph of the article is to summarize the contents, not to "highlight positive attributes." If you want to present a case that the contrast in populations is not a major issue in the county, this page is the place to present that case. If you believe the picture of the county presented in the government grant document quoted above is inaccurate, this page is the place to make your case. If you make it convincingly the article page would in fact get changed. If anonymous people keep coming in and editing the text, however, editors will revert back as a matter of good practice. Our job is to be encyclopedic, not to affect real estate values. Coll7 23:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of information is being crammed into the first section, which should really be a summary. There ends up being one line about liberal politics and then 2 lines about small enclaves. While I don't think that anyone would dispute the facts about the canal and marin city, the problem isn't any worse than other places in the greater bay area (Hunters Point, part of the more affluent San Francisco as a whole, Berkeley hills vs other parts of Berkeley). Would it be possible to just add a "challenges" section that outlines both points of view, and then give more of a "summary" approach in the first section (which seems a little disjointed anyways)? --Xyrrus 17:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added some language at the top about this. An architect may be able th phrase it better. Coll7 21:41, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the claim that Nancy Pelosi is from Marin County. She represents San Francisco's district in Congress, and according to her Wikipedia article, she was born in Maryland, went to college in DC, and lived there until she and her husband moved to San Francisco. So I see no basis for claiming she's from Marin. Jcb9 07:47, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Created 1850" vs. "formed 1889": unless the latter refers only to the board of supervisors, this is a contradiction. Biruitorul 05:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I diverted this lengthy section to a whole new page. I don't think 20% of the article on Marin County should be devoted to who used to live there. Noneofyourbiznez 00:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From the introduction paragraph: "Marin County is world-renowned for its stunning natural beauty, staunch conservatism and affluence." I'm not so sure about that claim to 'staunch conservatism' as a renowned trait of Marin, as it politically tends towards the liberal side. Perhaps the term that is meant is conservationism (although I'm not sure that this is a word, perhaps conservationist?) in reference to the open space provisions of the county? Cuffeparade 06:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that there is only a incidental reference to Angel island in this page (referring to the Angel island ferry service in the public transportation section). I want to add a bit more information about Angel Island here, but am not sure where it should go, whether stuck in Geography or perhaps in the list of Cities, Towns and Unincorporated places? Alternatively there could be a new section on state and national parks with Angel Island included in ther with the Headlands, Mt Tam and the other various parks in Marin. Any thoughts? Cuffeparade 11:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For an article that claims the subject is known for "its natural beauty", it is unfortunate that the article includes only two photos. __earth ^(Talk) 02:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know what the deal with Jewell is? If you go a couple miles past Samuel P. Taylor Park on Sir Francis Drake, you'll see a sign announcing a place called Jewell. There is a sign in each direction on the road, which I assume designates some sort of border. What is the status of Jewell? Does it officially exsist? I grew up in Marin and know absolutely nothing about it, except we traditionally held out breath when passing through it. Anyone? googuse (talk) 13:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the land was owned by a family with that name. There was a rural school and a train stop. I think that the locals called the area "Jewell's", while the whistle stop was labeled "Jewell". The Point Reyes Light has run stories about local controversy concerning demolition of the remmaining residences by the GGNRA.

http://www.co.marin.ca.us/depts/lb/main/crm/oralhistories/nmcisaacft.html

http://www.calarchives4u.com/Biographies/marin/mar-jewe.htm

http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/may20_99/tocaloma.html

--Hjal (talk) 20:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know the deal with the way the elementary and middle schools are organized? Looks like it started out being alphabetically by school, and then partly by town. I'm rearranging them to match the format for high schools, because it's more legible. If anyone has better ideas, they are welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Authentic You (talk • contribs) 01:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

brandeis hillel is not in Novato, it is in San Rafael.---

strange there was no mention of anything new age going on here. i just added it. hope no one freaks out -- it's just the truth. ask an average bay area resident (i lived in sf most of the 90's) about marin and they'd say "rich, liberal, new-age, natural beauty". and now that's exactly what it does say -- previously it only had the other three.

Benwing (talk) 11:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The San Quentin Prison also was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. The Civic Center gets a lot of notice, but I think the Prison is even more remarkable. Unfortunately, the only good view of it is from the Larkspur Ferry as it passes slowly right in front of it.Ty2009 (talk) 23:53, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you can cite a source for that information, you might add it to the San Quentin State Prison article. --Stepheng3 (talk) 23:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Much (most if not all?) of San Quentin predates Wright by quite a bit of time. Norcalal (talk) 06:43, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The "Income" section is comically subjective, seemingly written by someone who's never really lived outside of Marin. It gives many examples that feign to be self-deprecating but are actually bragging. The worst case in point is the following:

Marin County has the highest per capita income of any county in the United States. This is driven in particular by expensive enclaves in Sausalito, Belvedere, Tiburon, Mill Valley, Larkspur, Corte Madera, Kentfield, Ross, San Anselmo, and portions of San Rafael and Novato where displays of conspicuous consumption, especially luxury cars, are common. The county has the highest density of BMW cars (locally known as 'Basic Marin Wheels') in the United States, according to the local BMW dealership.

First, every legitimate city in Marin has an expensive enclave? "Enclave," seriously? I can't name an enclave in this county. And those are examples of "conspicuous consumption"? Conspicuous consumption, almost by definition does not flourish in a place like Marin, and definitely not south of Mill Valley. When I lived in Texas, I knew many, many people whose cars cost more than their homes--that's conspicuous consumption. Marin is known for quite the opposite--the huge amounts of money driving used Honda Accords. It has a high density of BMWs because people can afford the highest quality cars, not because people are showing off (it would be logically impossible to show off a BMW in a place where everyone can afford one!) You will see a much higher standard deviation of flashy cars most anywhere in the country--you'll see more Ferraris in Utah than Marin. And a simple google search shows "basic marin wheels" was a big phrase one week in the 80s. Okay, I'll stop now, but it needs to be cleaned up, and I've already spent my time writing this paragraph!--Mrcolj (talk) 03:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've pared the section way back. Some of it may be true, but most of it is unreferenced--and that's not good enough: See WP:V Barte (talk) 13:32, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article http://web.archive.org/web/20031203111336/http://mcoeweb.marin.k12.ca.us/es/PubSchGuide/SchoolsGuide.pdf has URLs of school districts. They may be different than the ones they use now WhisperToMe (talk) 06:03, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia maps are just sad nowdays. Used to be so much better. I'll be so happy when WP figures-out how to interact with an open-source map project... Sadsaque (talk) 14:45, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Marin County, California. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131103000000/http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/ror-odd-year-2013/political-sub.pdf to http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/ror-odd-year-2013/political-sub.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121118210512/http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/15day-general-12/county1.pdf to http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/15day-general-12/county1.pdf
• Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6M1KRmETR?url=http://www.census.gov/2010census/ to http://www.census.gov/2010census/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:44, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Marin County, California. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071201164333/http://www.assembly.ca.gov/clerk/BILLSLEGISLATURE/documents/CA_Leg_Handbook_2006/Appendices_CaLegi06.pdf to http://www.assembly.ca.gov/clerk/BILLSLEGISLATURE/documents/CA_Leg_Handbook_2006/Appendices_CaLegi06.pdf
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:24, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Marin County, California. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090219011551/http://www.sfgov.org/site/elections_index.asp?id=70720 to http://www.sfgov.org/site/elections_index.asp?id=70720

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:16, 17 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice to have an etymology for the name, by way of explaining where the pronunciation comes from.

122.60.217.100 (talk) 20:26, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This sentence is problematic: "Marino definitely did reside at Mission Dolores (in modern San Francisco) much of the time from his 1801 baptism and marriage until 1817, frequently serving as a baptism witness and godfather; he may have escaped and been recaptured at some point during that time." Why does the writer use the word "escape" when in the same sentence it is mentioned that Marino simply resided at the Mission? Was he incarcerated? Why "escaped"? Chafe66 (talk) 22:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• SanQuentinSP.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:18, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A glaring omission in this article is that it has almost nothing on the culture of Marin County and how Marin County is seen in the larger culture of the San Francisco Bay Area and, more generally, in American popular culture. In the late 1970s in particular, Marin's reputation for affluence, self-indugence, hot tubs, cocaine, personal growth, and new age spirituality preceded it and was satirized in the 1977 novel The Serial, the 1980 film version Serial, and the controversial 1978 NBC News special, I Want it All Now. (In fact, "I Want it All Now" is notable enough that it should have its own article.) The article does mention George W. Bush's reference to John Walker Lindh as a "Marin County hot-tubber", but doesn't refer at all to where that cultural trope came from.

It's worth noting that the fact that discussion of this cultural trope is missing from the article is a prime example of WP:PRESENTISM - if Wikipedia had been around in 1979, I have little doubt it would have been a large part of the article.

Anyway, there are some good sources out there for writing a section on this topic:

• https://www.marinij.com/2019/01/07/marin-still-wants-it-all-now/ (https://archive.ph/EC8kD)
• https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-jul-14-tm-47295-story.html (https://archive.ph/7dvoE)
• https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jul/16/worlddispatch.usa

Peter G Werner (talk) 18:12, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Marin County, Califiornia and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 2#Marin County, Califiornia until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC⁶⁷⁸ 05:09, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]