Talk:Grey River (New Zealand)

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It has been proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

• Grey River → Grey River / Māwheranui
• Grey River (disambiguation) → Grey River

– Page views indicate no clear primary topic for Grey River, while recent books under the term "Grey River" show very few, if any, results for the NZ river. Per WP:NATURAL, the dual name for the river is a suitable alternative. Turnagra (talk) 03:40, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support to Grey River (New Zealand), per WP:NZNC #3 which requires parenthetical disambiguation, and WP:TITLEDAB, which requires that natural disambiguation use an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, and forbids the use of obscure names - and the dual name is obscure, per Google News, which shows only one use of the dual name. BilledMammal (talk) 04:28, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would also support moving Grey River, Newfoundland and Labrador to Grey River, as looking at the pageviews it appears to be the primary topic. BilledMammal (talk) 04:32, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Usage requirements state that a primary needs to be more likely than all the other topics combined, which is not the case here for the Newfoundland article Turnagra (talk) 04:36, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The dual name is used by Google maps, environmental organisations, both local and overseas catalogues, business listings on the NZX and the US Government. That seems more than enough to indicate it has sufficient usage per WP:NATURAL.

  As for your NZNC comment, thankfully when we use the dual name we've got a nice distinct and unique name, so NZNC #1 would apply. Turnagra (talk) 04:43, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I believe NZNC #1 refers to the place number per WP:PAG. If it was advocating the use of the dual name for disambiguation, it would say so.

  As for your sources, if the name was not obscure and commonly used as required by WP:TITLEDAB, it would be commonly used by news organizations. I also note that most of the sources you have provided are either not reliable, or not independent of the NZ Government (Google Maps and GeoNames pull their data from NZ government databases). BilledMammal (talk) 05:44, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support originally proposed move as natural disambiguation. Given the fact that foreign governments, as well as general-audience sources like Google Maps, are using the dual name in this case, I think it's widely enough used to not be considered "obscure". ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 22:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Grey River should be the disambiguation page. ANd the dual name here seems like a tidy way to disambiguate this page.ShakyIsles (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. This isn’t a good faith effort to find primary topics; this is another attempt by Turnagra to move more articles to their official names by any means necessary. It may well be that there is no primary, but the dual name is entirely unused by the local population as well as ordinary reliable sources (RNZ [1], Stuff [2] and 1 News [3] all use the single name; searches for news show no use of the dual name), so we should disambiguate according to guidelines (per Billedmammal above) and if it is to be moved, move the page to Grey River (New Zealand). I note that, as in most cases, the parenthetical disambiguation is far more NATURAL (per WP:CRITERIA) than code-switching between English and Māori through the middle of a name. — HTGS (talk) 00:54, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]