Talk:Cuvier's beaked whale: Difference between revisions

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2020 and 19 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Watkins-Jorgensen (article contribs).

The Cuvier's beaked whale article is part of the Cetaceans WikiProject. A discussion on the capitalisation of common names of cetaceans is taking place and your input is appreciated. Please see the the project talk page for the full rationale and comments.

Why does searching "Water Owl" redirect me to this page? There's no explanation in the article. Robin Chen (talk) 06:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

yes, that is strange. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 03:02, 2 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Have added a section, albeit small, after a quick bit of reading about this. --13tsf13 (talk) 21:54, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it. How would an obscure species of whale only scientifically described in the 19th century have anything to do with a mythical sea creature from the middle ages exactly?? OM2003 (talk) 19:43, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to edit this issue about the "Water Owl" (!?) which I think is very distracting and ––more or less–– irrelevant. Watkins-Jorgensen (talk) 21:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed mention of the "Water Owl" bit seeing as it is a bit of frivolous trivia about a mythological creature that doesn't exist on wiki backed by a lower-quality source. This article still has a lot of work to do, though. --TangoFett (talk) 03:54, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is this not simply a reference to the creature pictured on the Carta Marina and labeled 'Ziphius'? Of course Ziphius is probably just a bad Latin transliteration of the Greek Xiphias, simply swordfish and if you're generous the depiction on the map might be passable as a swordfish. The reason this image got connected is simply a confusion of Cuvier's when he named the species in Recherches sur les ossemens fossiles (vol 5 part 1 pg. 352): "J'appliquerai au genre dont elle devient le premier type, le nom de ziphius, employé par quelques auteurs du moyen âge (voyez Gesner, I, p. 209) pour un cétacé qu'ils n'ont point déter miné, et je nommerai cette espèce ziphius cavirostris" That's the right page but the wrong volume of Geßner's Historia animalium, it should be 209-210 in liber IV (I'm looking at this one: https://doi.org/10.5962/bhl.title.120113). In Geßner's entry he includes a reproduction of the 'Ziphius' illustration from the Carta Marina and writes of Ziphius "...monstro marinum horrible...". Later he writes "...ingens, de genere cetorum, Albertus." Did Cuvier just make the classic Ketos != cetacean mistake?? Anyway there is a lot more chitchat to be had by exactly what is depicted by Olaus and described in other sources (for a definitely not a swordfish take a look at the creature maybe labeled xiphias in the Nile mosaic of Palestrina and Artemidorus papyrus), but the link between Cuvier's naming decision and bestiaries from the middle ages is clear-- Cuvier cites his source himself! Xarzin (talk) 04:29, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I want to thank my wonderful professor Dr. Alan Shabel of U.C. Berkeley for inspiring me; likewise–– Philip Georgakakos our GSI (who is now just getting a Doctorate) who brought up the Cuvier's Beaked Whale in the first place, described it so excitingly and definitely intrigued me with the descriptions, always inspiring; and our other GSI, reader and patient person with the cool insights,( also just getting her doctorate!) Jenna Baughman. Looking forward to more questions and ideas! Watkins-Jorgensen (talk) 07:31, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 26th, 2020: I object to the text box talking about multiple issues.( Lack of respect or politeness!)  Can someone get in contact about this? There's a lot of research in this, nothing loose-goosey or suppositional and the sources are cited, and listed.Watkins-Jorgensen (talk) 01:39, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've reinserted the maintenance templates that were previously applied. Please don't take them personally; they intend no disrespect for you or the article you've invested in, but they each are still applicable to the current state of the article. Take a look at WP:MTR for more info. Retswerb (talk) 07:29, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm really delighted to see this WP entry on Cuvier's beaked whale -- I think it's a great start. I'm happy to help a bit with the copyediting. As a first suggestion, I'd like to move the taxonomy section to the top & merge it with the section labelled 'Discovery'. I followed links to some of the other beaked whales entries & several of them have done it that way. Thoughts? Redwidgeon (talk) 20:11, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Redwidgeon. A review of good cetacean articles reveals a trend of following lead summary first with a "Taxonomy" section, with a "Description" section after that. azwaldo (talk) 16:06, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and edited the lead text to make it more succinct and hopefully more understandable to a lay reader, but I did not (to my knowledge) change the meaning of the original. Hopefully this improves the article. Fredlesaltique (talk) 01:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the "Discovery" section by paring the text down to its most notable elements; hoping to improve readability, and make a better fit within the "Taxonomy" section. (And, many thanks to Watkins-Jorgensen for the heavy lift in this article!) azwaldo (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:57, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Renamed the "Discovery" section to "Taxonomy" as suggested by Redwidgeon, and removed the paragraph naming the many other beaked whales. Next, removing the paragraph tagged for citation needed from "Whaling and fishing" section, as I was unable to find support for the flagged statement and the bulk of the paragraph relates to another species entirely. azwaldo (talk) 21:52, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks deeply Azwaldo, Redwidgeon, and Fredlesaltique for the great comments and explanations. Plus noble work! Gros bisous ! Nanlelecteur W-J Watkins-Jorgensen (talk) 02:10, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]